Australia (NSW) becoming a police state?

[Jerry_Atrick]

I subscribe to a youtuber, Friendly Jordies, who is an independent comedian/ journo in Aus. To be honest, I don't watch him for his "comedy" - not my style., But I find the stuff he talks about to be generally stuff the mainstream media don't touch and designed to uncover the BS that governments do.

 

He has lately been consumed with the NSW deputy premier, John Baliralo (sp?). The points he has made about the deputy premier in his capacity of the job, if true, are quite shocking and deserve a lot more exposure than an independent youtuber. I hope the things he has allegedly done at least been aired.. The reason why I say this is, that after hounding JB for so long, JB has finally slapped a defamation writ on FJ, but as far as has been disclosed, nothing has been about defamatory statements alleged about his professional misconduct, but rather the personal attacks on his integrity.

 

I will agree, that FJ took it a little too far for a "laugh", and that while he was at pains to insist the personal swipes were only his opinion, if it happened in the UK, the exposure sought and the tirade given probably would have been enough for a marginal defamation win against his personal character (unless of course, the opinion could be proved - which I doubt it could).  And, of course, FJ wasn't going to make it easy for the solicitors to serve the writ.. And yes, JB's solicitors didn't actually follow the letter of the law in serving it in the end, but these are technicalities, too, esp since FJ filmed himself being obstinate.

 

But, this appears to have escalated at a rather worrying rate - to the point where some special unit of the NSW police (or special force of some sort) designed to combat terrorism were brought in to arrest FJ's producer for harassing the deputy premier. This is a unit that is responsible for counter-terrorism - not to arrest people who are alleged non-violent harassment. There appears to be scuffles and all sorts of shenanigans over a phone.. Allegations are made in the video which we can't ascertain about brutality, but, clearly, the producer's family is distraught.

 

The criminal charge of harassment contained no violence itself, but was a little liberal with the events recorded on the mobile phone. The 200m stalking could not be ascertained as valid or not from the video, but certain allegations contained in the police statement were clearly not there, and not easy to mistakenly recollect. Again, this is a simple allegation of non-violent harassment - it would hardly even warrant an arrest until enough evidence could be ascertained for a charge. Also to put into context, apparently the max sentence is 3 years. Given it would have to be the worst for of harassment to get that (or recurring offences), the use of an anti-terrorist unit seems a "little" excessive..

 

I urge you to watch the video and let me know what you think.. if this is 80% true, this is an exceedingly worrying development in Australia.

 

 

[onetrack]

Barilaros actions are heavy-handed, and typical of someone fearful of being caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Going on an offensive is their favourite line of defence.

 

Barilaro is a bit of a thug, IMO. And NSW is the worst State for corruption. It's been that way since 1788. Michael West runs a regular good expose of crooks and crookedness.

 

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Well, I never.. I have actually liked a Sky News video... I am still in shock.. Yes. there were jibes, bit good on Bolt for calling out police state tactics,even if against the conservative clan,....

 

 

 

[Dax]

It's trend we are seeing because the people are to dumb to take politicians to task and politicians think they invulnerable to any form of criticism or laws. In other words one law for them, another for the people.

 

The contract tracing and having to log in where ever you go is another starting point for more control over peoples lives. All they had to do was build proper quarantine facilities outside cities and we would have no problems, but they have done nothing for 18 months and won't do anything for another 6 months, then claim it will take a year to build them and then it will be over by then. The facts are, they could build enough quarantine facilities around the country in a few weeks to take 10000 people and solve the problem. But they don't want to upset some of their major donors in every state, the hotel accommodation industry.

[nomadpete]

5 hours ago, Dax said:

they don't want to upset some of their major donors in every state, the hotel accommodation industry.

This really belongs in the Covid thread but I can't resist biting.

 

Are you suggesting that we have a "Deep State" conspiracy preventing our elected government from carrying out it's logical duty to protect our citizens?

 

WOW !

 

And here I was blindly believing it was simply due to their stupid short sighted incompetence.

[Dax]

1 hour ago, nomadpete said:

Are you suggesting that we have a "Deep State" conspiracy preventing our elected government from carrying out it's logical duty to protect our citizens?

Why do you think they refuse to release of donors below $12000 or whatever it is, why do yo think they use our money to prop up infrastructure construction, then give them away to the corporate world so they can charge us for using them, ie roads. Why do you think they go against the people wishes and allow destructive industries to continue polluting the planet with no recourse for the environmental damage and we end up paying to clean it all up. Why do you think the vast majority of companies in Aus pay little or no tax, yet receive huge subsidies like the virus payments and billions in grants each year, whilst their profits grow. Yet they can't keep our health system running and our supposed public transport is pathetic, expensive and we still pay for it even though all the money goes to private companies.

 

The list of corrupt practices is endless, the gave away hundred of millions to prop up their candidates to build car parks which never happened and sporting facilities for women to clubs that had no women teams in them. I could go on and one listing the never ending amount of rorts, rip offs and blatant pork barrelling they all do and nothing is ever done about. To make matters worse, they have all been elected unconstitutionally, becuase our constitution states categorically, that the people representatives must be elected by direct vote, not preferential votes and we are not electing our own choices, all we can elect is the people the party decide on. There is no mention is out constitution for parties to have a say in elections, so we have an unconstitutional federal and probably state governments. The last person to bring it to the courts way back in the 1980's, ended up in jail, which makes our judicial system is totally corrupt.

[octave]

dax it seems like you believe we live in some kind of dystopian hell hole.  Obviously things like corruption and mismanagement  exist and have always existed and certainly we should be trying to stamp them  out.  That said I cant think of many other countries that I would rather live in when it comes to health care or the judicial system or freedom of speech.  

 

 

[spacesailor]

My half a second red light fine has has been upheld.

Just a few weeks to pay into the ' revenue raiser,s  '  coffers .

I have learnt a valuable lesson,  ' Don,t .go slow ' at the lights. Get your foot to the floor & ignore the safety aspect.

Those lights are there to raise money ! Not for saftey.  My bad, driving too slow, my first drive since the WuFlue pandemic. ( expensive trip )

spacesailor

[Dax]

26 minutes ago, octave said:

dax it seems like you believe we live in some kind of dystopian hell hole. 

As you say, this is the best country on the planet to live at the moment, but we are fast slipping into the same scenario we see overseas and to be honest, think the entire world is becoming a dystopian hell hole. Had to look up dystopian, it's an apt description of the state of our country and planet, but we still live in the best place and i;e been to a lot of countries. If we had decent politicians other than programmed useless ideological clones, we would not be looking down the barrel of an extinction gun.

 

My lady currently in Sweden used to brag about how together and representative of the people the Swedish government was, now she's been there almost 2 years, she tells me it's become a basket case of corruption, terrible decisions, out of control crime from the  tens of thousand of mulsims they let in and now there are many no go areas throughout Sweden. It's become so bad their prime minister had to resign when the coalition he was in walked out because of the decisions being made.

[octave]

I certainly agree that we have big problems to overcome although there is nothing new in this.     But I also think that the average persons life (in a wealthy developed country)  is pretty comfortable.     I most certainly do not envy my fathers life and I am kind of a little jealous of my sons life.

 

I think it is easy to believe things are getting worse because we tend to look back on the past with rose colored glasses.   If I think back through my life each year had its share of political corruption stories.   I moved to Sydney in 1979 and that was a cesspit of corruption and organized crime. I don't believe it is any worse now and is possibly not quite as bad.  In these times of the internet we do get to hear things that in the past were suppressed.

 

When it comes to politicians we never accept any blame ourselves.   When we say politicians are not doing what the people want we generally me what "we want"  The problem is we don't all want the same thing.  People are rightly worried about the environment but as soon as policy is floated that might cost us a few dollars more we whinge and whine about it.     Politicians tend to do what they believe will get them re elected.   

 

The majority of people do care about emissions from fossil fuels but when it comes down to it they are often not willing to pay more or be inconvenienced in any way. We could all vote green but we don't. 

 

We of course do face big problems, we always have and probably always will.   I tend to think if you live in one richest countries on earth (unless you are ultra poor or have had misfortune) if you cant be content here then where can you be.   I think we take an awful lot for granted.

 

 

 

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

I agree with Octave. Our country is not a bad one , but you must not expect too much. We never threw out the poms, so we don't have a 4th july to celebrate. Our democracy is not bad, but not that good either. Educated Chinese gasp in horror at how our politicians need sponsors to get into parliament.

BUT, I am only able to write this because my grandfather was not killed by the poms in ww1. Yes he was one of those " undisciplined Australian troops" who mucked up the poms enjoyment of their war. Australia killed none of their own, while the poms killed lots.

Here's another example: recently there was a huge drug bust in Australia. The FBI had sold the crooks phones which the crooks wrongly thought were unable to be tapped. NOT ONE arrest in the USA, because it is against their rights to have police listen in, at least without a search warrant.

The choice is between the Mafia and the Gestapo. Australia has chosen the Gestapo. No wonder I thought we had no bill of rights.

[Marty_d]

If you don't like preferential voting, number every box.  Problem solved.

[nomadpete]

Did I touch a nerve?

[Jerry_Atrick]

As usual, NP.... as usual 😉

 

I agree Australia is one of the best countries in the world to live.. why do you think I am trying to come back? But many western democracies, particularly in Europe (or outside of the US) are also in the same position as Australia: stable political system, and generally not a bad place for us plebs to live.

13 hours ago, octave said:

That said I cant think of many other countries that I would rather live in when it comes to health care or the judicial system or freedom of speech.  

Well, actually.. I can think of a few... For example, the public health system of Germany and France and most northern European countries is miles better than Aus. Spacey's hip would have been dealt with years ago. A German doctor arrived at Southampton Hospital about 10 years ago and within about 3 months he virtually eradicated a 2 year waiting list of various knee ops. The NHS here should be up there, as they increase its budget each year by billlions. However, politicisation and poor management make sure that it is on a par with the Aussie public health system.

 

On free speech, it is being eroded - in Aus and elsewhere. The various gratuitous powers provided for the sake of anti-terrorism have been openly abused. The whole reason to start this thread is the blatant attempt at undermining free speech (I have no issue Barlilaro suing Jordan Shanks for defamation, but the use of the NSW anti-terrorist unit for the arrest of his producer on staling charges seemed a little over the top, especially since the complaint seemed riddled with inaccuracies and there wasn't an investigation first - telling in the original video is that Mr Thugalugs didn't try to inform the accused's mother of what her son was accused of the words, "Do you want to know what your son did?"

 

Also, what about the police raids on journos for exposing issues..

 

In Germany, there are very strict laws ensuring freedom of speech (although hate speech is also outlawed) and simple recording of telephone conversations for training purposes, or in my case, to provide surveillance for rogue trading is outlawed. Over here, there are very strict laws protecting whistleblowers (vexatiously false whistleblowers, however, can land themselves in trouble)..

 

Also, what about that pensioner in Preston, or somewhere around there: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-29/victoria-police-officers-sentenced-for-assault-of-melbourne-man/12347814?  As I have said before, I have no issue with throwing the book at people who harm those of special trust and responsibility in our society - but I think the same should be doled out to those in those positions of trust who abuse it.

 

From the article:

"Magistrate Lamble noted there had been no remorse or regret expressed by any of the officers.

"There is no evidence of victim empathy," she said.

"There is no apology … other than blaming [John].

"I have been horrified by the images of [John] on the ground with six police officers restraining him.

"Treating another human being that way is terrible, no matter what preceded that behaviour."

Magistrate Lamble singled out McLeod for "paying out on" John for resisting police and said McLeod, in particular, "hardly bothered to try and talk him down"."

 

Yet still, only a fine and no conviction? By those who are paid to protect us.. Seriously? I think that covers the judicial system.

 

13 hours ago, octave said:

But I also think that the average persons life (in a wealthy developed country)  is pretty comfortable.     I most certainly do not envy my fathers life and I am kind of a little jealous of my sons life.

The fact we live wealthier is not mutually exclusive to our freedoms being curtailed. I think China is a very good example of that.  Nor does it mean that by ensuring our freedoms, we will be less wealthy.

 

13 hours ago, octave said:

I tend to think if you live in one richest countries on earth (unless you are ultra poor or have had misfortune) if you cant be content here then where can you be.   I think we take an awful lot for granted.

I agree.. we do take an awful lot for granted.. And this, I fear, is leading to complacency, which is the crack in the armour the state can exploit to its advantage.  With each little erosion we comfort ourselves we still have more than enough food in our guts, and a pretty decent roof over our head.. much better than in the past... So, we take things for granted, and we start to forget that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

 

[octave]

i don't particularly disagree and I do think we need to be vigilant.  I do think that we also  should not fall into the trap of believing that we live in the worst of times.     We should always be trying to reduce corruption in politics  but I do not think there is more corruption than in the past.   In my lifetime I can think many many political scandals.   I grew up in Adelaide and I can remember George Duncan the gay academic who was downed after being thrown in the river Torrens (possibly by police)  the Salisbury affair (police commissioner keeping secret files on people)   I then moved to NSW which had all sorts of government and organized crime problems. Juanita Nielson. etc   This was followed by Neville Wran  and Lionel Murphy Abe Saffron etc.

 

My point about corruption is that it is questionable whether it is better worse or similar now.  

 

I am unconvinced that freedom of speech is declining,   When people say it is I usually pose the question "what is it that you want to say that you cant you say?'    The  incident that started this thread is somewhat concerning and it will be interesting to see how it pans out .   The are disturbing cases like Bernard Collaery that we should keep a close watch on.

 

I have great appreciation for our medical system.  If I hade been a US citizen I would probably have  become bankrupt by now. I have a very expensive cardiac pacemaker which cost me 0$ and my cardiologist bulk bills me this costs me 0$ I do not have health insurance.   Is this not amazing?   There are many countries where this would not happen  and certainly past generations did not have these benefits.  Our system may not be the very best in the world but I would suggest it is close.

 

I think compliancy can be a problem but if we start from the point of view that everything is bad  then  perhaps it is just inevitable .  Some posters have said things to suggest that we are doomed.  From my postings it should be clear that I am very concerned with issues such as climate change but if the world is already doomed then what would be the point of tackling it?   

 

We should rightly be on the watch for instances of curtailment of freedom but we should not pretend that we are the "real oppressed". We should also remember that freedoms also have increased.    My older sister in her youth could not talk publicly about her sexual preferences and had to lie to get a job now she can marry her partner if she wishes.  We can also be complacent about the good things.

 

I guess I think it is important to notice bad things and attempt to put them right but it is essential to understand that we live in a privileged  time and place.  We do need to protect it but we can only do that if we appreciate what we have.

 

To live a happy life I think it is essential to understand your privilege.  Certainly you need to vigilant of this privilege being eroded but you also have acknowledge that we are none the less privileged compared to the majority of humans on this earth.

[Dax]

56 minutes ago, octave said:

My point about corruption is that it is questionable whether it is better worse or similar now.

I think corruption is much more wide spread compared to 50 years ago and 60 years ago there was virtually none. That's because we had people in power who had experienced real life, namely the world wars and had hands on experience of the portfolios they held.

 

Today those in power have no life experience outside an office or schoolroom, they gain their positions not because of their knowledge or experience, but according to their political party faction and who they support. Not one of them has any experience in real life or within their portfolios, they spend huge amounts of money on advisers because they know nothing but lying and cheating. Then we have the problem the advisers know nothing as they only have school and office experience, but work on how to fool the people and can get the best return to the party with the advice they give, or they would get sacked.

 

Just look at the building industry, they build extremely shoddy building, use private inspectors and it's the people who suffer. The builders walk away with their profits and the pollies turn their backs on the people, but they keep voting for them.

 

Because they have let so many people into the country to drive their profit growth mantra, housing is outside most peoples ability to buy and even rent a home. To make matters worse, there is not enough materials in the country to build the homes required and timber is in extremely short supply. But the pollie do nothing but cater for their donors and other vested interests, completely neglecting the reality they have created. Now they want increase the population, because it drives profit growth and corporate control.

 

As for voting, it make no difference who you vote for, preferential voting makes sure the political parties always get elected, even though they may only have a low primary vote count. I vote for independents at that's it, if there are no independents, my vote becomes informal, not going to give it the destroyers of life, that would be voting for suicide. Now if everyone did that, or put the major parties last, we may see change. But seems people are to dumb to work they are voting for their own destruction, destroying theirs and their kids lives.

 

I have kids grand kids and great grand kids, they all are struggling to cope with life and make something of it for themselves. My youngest grandsons family have no hope of buying a home, renting is getting more expensive and he works his butt off. My older kids, were lucky they got houses before the profit growth rot set in and they removed the ban on foreign ownership of homes.

 

[octave]

I moved to NSW in 1979.  At this time the state was riddled with crime and corruption.   Neville Wran and Lionel Murphy, Juanita Nielsen who campaigned against inner city development, disappeared and is presumed murdered.   Abe Saffron, the disappearance of Donald McKay.     

 

During my time in the Air Force I saw many instances of petty corruption and some more serious stuff.   Whilst I am sure there is still some corruption there are more stringent measures to combat it. During my time in the RAAF I saw many changes to eliminate things that were very much unseen by the general public. I have some great examples.

 

38 minutes ago, Dax said:

I think corruption is much more wide spread compared to 50 years ago and 60 years ago there was virtually none

 

Do you really think there was virtually no corruption 60 years ago? I will bet if I search the net I can find many examples.  Even during  war 2 there were people grifting and bribing looting during the blitz etc.

 

 Each generation faces particular challenges.  Today we have a problem with people getting into the housing market although many young folk do buy houses.

 

Dax you seem to be saying that things are worse than ever and also that you feel voting wont fix anything ,so what are you doing?     I am concerned about climate change and in my darker moments I wonder if it is too late however merely complaining is not really useful.   

 

I have no idea about other posters circumstances and what their lives are like but  many here seem quite unhappy. When I look a my own life I feel pretty lucky, it may be a delusion but I would rather be happy then right.

 

My grandfather died at 67 from lung cancer, he started smoking whilst in the home guard during the war, cigarettes were part of his rations.  We he came to live in Australia he took the only job he could get which was washing the overalls of miners in an asbestos mine.   He died without any real palliative care,

 

My father joined the Royal Navy in `1946 partly because he would have been conscripted any way and also to escape the crippling poverty of the average working class family in the North of England at that time. He also served in Korea.

After the RN he became a merchant sailor and during his travels came to Australia. Later we came to live in Aus as 10 pound poms.  My father worked a 48 hour week and my mother also worked full time.   They both worked hard to give us a better life.  My father retired at 65 with almost no super and many lasting injuries from his factory job. My father had fewer choices about his life than me.

 

By contrast I  had the benefits of a good education compared to the short education my father received.  I was able to pretty much turn my hobby into a career. I like to brag that I have never worked hard (compared to my father).   My wife and I were able to drop out and live on a bush block.  We lived pretty frugally but this was a choice and wasn't imposed on us.  We home educated our son which was probably one of the best things we have ever done.    The law did not really get in the way of this.  Due to the kind of superannuation that was not available to my father I retired at the beginning of this year at the age of 58

 

My son turned his hobby into a lucrative living and has more financial freedom than we do and is pretty happy although aware an active in the political issues that concern him.

 

I most definitely would not have exchanged my life with my fathers life.

 

I think going back to my grandparents our family always had the ethos that whining was useless and just led to discontent and unhappiness unless it leads to action.     Even to this day if I complain about any situation to my son he will listen patiently once but will then  always ask me what I intend to do about it.

 

I have the freedom to announce my sexual preferences (which are pretty average) or if I decided I want to transition to the another gender I can do that. I can declare my atheism and not lose a job.  I can stand out side my local MPs office with a placard. I can express myself without being abducted by the authorities in the middle of the night. etc.

 

If I was an anti drug campaigner most likely I would not be killed like Don Mackay. My wife is working with a group who are trying to stop a new natural gas facility being built. I am reasonably confident she wont be rubbed out.

 

I suspect that in the past corruption was more able to be kept in house.  We did not have things such as wiki leaks and think the average person did not delve into the fine details of politics.

 

If we had some kind of raffle whereby we could pull out of a hat a  birth year which would reset our lives so that we were actually born on that day would anyone do that?     Would anyone choose to be born in 1900 given all that that would mean?  Likewise if we put all the worlds countries in a hat and drew one out for us to be resettles in, would anyone do that? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I 

[octave]

A few of NSW's not-so-finer moments

The colony's early days set the stage for a long history of political and public corruption. Among the more notable episodes:

• a royal commission in 1905 revealed Lands Minister Paddy Crick had been involved in large-scale extortion and corruption, leading to his resignation
• the corrupt dealings of Agriculture Minister WC Grahame led to his resignation in 1920
• the 1951 Maxwell Royal Commission revealed widespread police involvement in corruption and the "sly grog" trade
• the term of Liberal Premier Bob Askin (1965–75) saw rampant corruption at the highest levels of politics and the police
• during Labor Premier Neville Wran's time in office (1976–86), the corrective services minister and chief magistrate were tried and subsequently imprisoned for corruption
• and in the late 1990s, the Wood Royal Commission revealed entrenched, systemic corruption in the police force.

[Bruce Tuncks]

Australia has quite a few bad examples in our history.  William Slim, as governor-general, was an active pedophile. The waste of good young men in WW1, the dreadful conditions in the "homes" are examples. Ned Kelly was treated dreadfully. In Port Arthur, the state did crimes daily that were worse than the convicts ever did.

But as a kid who grew up in Alice Springs in the 1950's, I never knew of any "stolen " aboriginal kids and I sure would have known if there were any in town.

Fast forwarding to today, we should be doing better than we are, but overall this country is one of the better ones on the planet. We are nowhere near the top of the list for freedom from corruption though, and I have to agree with Jerry and Dax that we sure need to be very aware of the shortcomings out there.

Jerry's point about the authorities use of anti-terror legislation to control us non-terrorists should make us all stop and think.

[Dax]

3 hours ago, octave said:

Dax you seem to be saying that things are worse than ever and also that you feel voting wont fix anything ,so what are you doing?     I am concerned about climate change and in my darker moments I wonder if it is too late however merely complaining is not really useful.   

There has always been corruption throughout history, but it didn't really effect the entire future of a society, if you don't include the unjust wars etc. Today corruption is so bad it's really effecting the future in a big way, it covers all aspects of government and big business, and has been made worse with the forced model of supposed competition, where two competing conglomerates who wipe out small business by lowing prices until they can't compete and then raising prices and that's called competition.

 

It's very obvious in Tas, where coles/woolworths/bunnings/harvey  normam/IGA wiped out all competition round the state and then raised their prices. I rarely buy from them, but my neighbour uses some things from woolworths that you can't buy fro other places, so When I shop for them go in and buy their stuff. I get my food from independent place, and have noticed that coles/woolies are much more expensive than where I shop and the same for bunnings. We used to have lots of hardware stores until bunning arrived and with the help of the state govenrment, set up huge shops with low prices and most of the small and even a big hardware stores were forced out of business.

 

I went to bunning because I couldn't get what I wanted from our local hardware and noticed their prices were much higher than the local hardware and Mitre ten about 75klms from me. Then we come to IGA, the supposed independent supermarkets, but they get all their stuff from woolworths so are not independent at all, just another con job. Woolworths own all the liquor and food distribution distribution in Tas, they wiped out the independent suppliers.

 

What am I doing, I live off grid grow most of my food, run my vehicles and machinery on seed oils, don't use any chemicals on my property and have turned my property which was an old sand quarry into a place that feeds wildlife. When I got it, it was bare grey sandy soil that blew away with any wind and nothing would grow, except for some sick looking gum trees in one area that was to steep to mine. After 23 years it has beautiful big gardens with lots of fruit trees, blackwoods everywhere, beautiful big white gums, lots of wild cherry, pristine bush and grass filled paddocks, with 3 dams and a bore. 

 

Make everything myself from recycled stuff, including the two houses, do all the work on my vehicles and machinery and don't eat any junk or processed foods, nor dairies or red meats. The fish I eat we catch or get from friends and local fishermen, we have a network of people who grow organic food and we buy or exchange with each other.  When I win lotto😆 😁 will get all electric vehicles, which may never happen, a you have top buy a ticket to win and I keep forgetting.

 

My life has been very different to yours, brought up in a very religious family on my mothers side and drunk atheist exserviceman father with indigenous background. I was the rebel who refused to believe what they were saying about yahweh and was forced to learn the bibles from front to back or be beaten, until my rebellion forced them to put me in a church boys homes. which was a horrendous experience for an 8 year old.

 

Escaped 3 times and they brought me back twice and locked me in a cage under some stairs and tried to beat the devil out of me, until I'd worked out how to survive on the streets. I lived on the streets and in the bush until almost 14 then a lovely builder caught me sleeping in a house he was building, gave me a place to live, job and apprenticeship. But still had to keep out of the way of the authorities until I finished my apprenticeship and joined the navy so they couldn't get to me.

 

I had no real education but could read and did a lot of that to pass the time and it took me out of my situation still read a huge amount today. It took many decades to come to terms with my diagnosed PTSD from my childhood and active service and it got me into a lot of trouble, spending time in jail in 3 states because my temper always got the better of me and as I had boxed as an amateur, bashed anyone who had a go at me severely.

 

Then I found music and playing music has been my life saver for the last 4 + decades. The only one of my family have ever had anything to do with is my youngest brother, who searched for me for a few years and only found me when he was at a gig and recognised me for some reason. Changed my entire name to stay away from the past, but that's all the past and my life is peaceful and reasonably happy.

 

I try to do as much as I can to mitigate my footprint on the planet, just wish others would do the same, but they leave it to others, so nothing is ever done or changed for the better. I'm pretty well off by most standards now, but the people I associate with, would be classed as the lower class and find them much more honest and credible than the vast majority.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Gents, not much time today, but some quick links (have not checked their methodology):

 

World Corruption Index: https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2020/table/nzl

 

World Freedom of Press Index (although I am not sure this takes into account the concentration of press in Aus): https://rsf.org/en/ranking

 

World Rule of Law Index (same ranking as corruption): https://worldjusticeproject.org/sites/default/files/documents/WJP-ROLI-2020-Online_0.pdf

 

World Political Index (we rate highly here): https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores

 

Internet Freedom Scores (although we rank relatively high, our rating scrapes into the top quartile): https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-net/scores

 

(although with the last two, I am not sure about as it doesn't seem to list all countries.. In addition, if you click the democracy score, virtually all western countries are absent - could be user error)..

 

So, we don't do bad, but that doesn't mean we can't do better

 

I am not comparing to days gone past - they were what they were.. I am looking forward to days to come.. those we can influence..

 

 

[octave]

4 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

So, we don't do bad, but that doesn't mean we can't do better

 I totally agree.

[octave]

1 hour ago, Dax said:

What am I doing, I live off grid grow most of my food, run my vehicles and machinery on seed oils, don't use any chemicals on my property and have turned my property which was an old sand quarry into a place that feeds wildlife. When I got it, it was bare grey sandy soil that blew away with any wind and nothing would grow, except for some sick looking gum trees in one area that was to steep to mine. After 23 years it has beautiful big gardens with lots of fruit trees, blackwoods everywhere, beautiful big white gums, lots of wild cherry, pristine bush and grass filled paddocks, with 3 dams and a bore. 

 

This is a great thing and hopefully serves as an example to others.   It is similar to what we did for 20 years.  

 

1 hour ago, Dax said:

There has always been corruption throughout history, but it didn't really effect the entire future of a society, if you don't include the unjust wars etc. Today corruption is so bad it's really effecting the future in a big way,

 

The history of corruption goes back a long way if we are talking about wars I would suggest that the 20th century takes the cake so far.   I think you and I would agree that the future of the environment is a crucial issue.   When we lived in the on solar power etc, we had a friend who was very much into trying to save the environment and although I admired her commitment I never wanted to join in.  Her message was pretty much it is too late and everything sucks.   What is the point then.   You many notice that when I post on this forum about environmental issues it is usually about some  new renewable technology  or companies  changing the way the do things.   I think spreading doom and gloom doesn't make anyone a champion of change, it just allows people to say ok no point in making any effort.    

 

So what do I do?   I no longer live in the bush.  I sold my 44 acres to someone who is looking after it in the right way.  I have downsized my  environmental footprint.  Being that is just my wife and me, we downsized  to a small unit which we have renovated to be small but pleasant.  We are almost energy self sufficient.      Our superannuation for the last 30 years has been in Australian Ethical Super.  We now bank with Bank  Australia which has high ethical lending standards.   Our electricity supplier  is Power Shop which only buys from renewable sources.   All of this we only bother to do because we are optimistic.  If it is truly game over then we may as say f*** it  and go with the cheapest.

 

My wife works voluntarily for a local community group that which has a positive agenda and works with unions that represent workers who are worried about their jobs.

 

In terms of corruption, I am not saying it does not exist or that we should not worry about it but we also have to be realistic and not fall into the trap of thinking that things are totally bleak.    I broadly agree with this article  Australia is out of the top ten in global anti-corruption rankings — why?      Basically it says that we used to be number 7 in the least corrupt countries and now we are number 11.  Concerning yes but bleak and dire - no.

 

What are the most pressings corruption issues?  For example are they as serious as for example the Askin years in NSW?     Generally at least at the public level we are not solicited for bribes like in many other countries.     I remember when I moved to NSW in 1979 getting the car inspected for rego often involve finding the right mechanic who would sign off any old rust heap.    As time went on mechanics became more thorough because they started to be audited.

 

  It is common for people to believe that the past was fantastic and that crime is getting out of control without actually looking at the figures.    It is a problem of perception rather than reality.   

                                                                             

We often read or indeed talk to older folks about the spirit of the blitz but the reality was not necessarily so rosy 

London in the blitz: How crime flourished under cover of the blackout

 

When it comes to corporations pay tax, yep there are corporations who manage to avoid pay tax in fact the figure is around 30% not paying tax.   Of these some genially may not have made a profit.    One solution could be that we don't allow deductions.  I agree we should tackle companies who avoid tax without penalizing companies   making investments.           

 

 

 

[octave]

2 hours ago, Dax said:

Then I found music and playing music has been my life saver for the last 4 + decades.

 

More information Dax, what do you play?

[Dax]

We play modern blues and modern country rock, including lots of our own music, tour small rural towns and areas where they rarely get entertainment and really appreciate it.