fly_tornado Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 You can't blame Labor after the first 100 days, has Hockey blown the budget to pieces? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Really? I would challenge anybody to fix their mess in a 100 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Looks like their constant slogan has found a believer. In ANY interview I've ever heard with an LNP front bencher, it's always the same. They rabbott on about whatever morally bankrupt policy they're trying to deceive the public with, then, as soon as they get asked a difficult question, they pull out the "...this mess we inherited from Labor..." message. It's obviously scripted. In some meeting somewhere they must have decided it's mandatory to include the words "mess we inherited from Labor" in any contact with the media. They are deceitful, unremittingly negative, bereft of decent policies, and worst of all, totally bereft of imagination or original thought. Anyone who saw through them since before they came to power should be entitled to a period of quiet schadenfreude before worrying over the future of this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Yeah, yeah whatever floats your boat. A mess is a mess as far as I am concerned, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Yeah, yeah whatever floats your boat. A mess is a mess as far as I am concerned, Don't take my word for it. Rating agencies like Standard & Poors are sh1t-hot at knowing the state of health of an economy. They say we have a triple-A rating. Joke Hockey says we have a crisis. I know which one I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 For the life of me I don't know why successive Treasurers haven't come to this forum and spoken to Australia's own experts on macro-economics - it seems to be so easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Marty, It would be nice if you are right but I do not share your confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 For the life of me I don't know why successive Treasurers haven't come to this forum and spoken to Australia's own experts on macro-economics - it seems to be so easy. Nice bit of sarcasm TP. If it was aimed at me, can I just point out that all I did was call the LNP front bench a pack of lying scum, then referred someone to a real economic expert - S&P. Perhaps the current Treasurer can explain to the Australian public why the worlds leading rating agency and he seem to have opposing views on the health of our economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 No economics expert out there generally has gone along with the concept of a "Budget Emergency". It was used to put in place onerous conditions on people who could (generally) not afford it. Remember the "Lifters and Leaners". ?. A mean spirited budget poorly constructed. You can blame the Senate, but there is massive resentment by many sections of society. When Hockey goes overseas he doesn't mention the Australian Economy being in crisis. Funny That...... Why? Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methusala Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 For once I agree with something that "Teckair" has to say. At least he recognises a mess when it visits him. Govt debt is a good thing especially when, like private enterprise, it is used to provide infrastructure in health, transport and education. The govt can borrow at extremely favourable interest rates to boost our productive capacity now and down the track. BTW I think that it shows a special kind of ignorance to claim that Keynsian economics is anything but the gold standard in understanding how economics works. I studied economics in years 5 & 6 in '67 - '68 from Paul Samuelson's outstanding economics text and have not found anything since that can't be explained except in his terms. Voodoo economics only survived while the US's prodigious export of manufactures lasted. Go see the rust belts and 3rd world conditions of many millions of Americans. Still, the truth don't matter to blind truthers. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 The "real economic expert" works on published/current figures. Treasury works on what has to be done to produce the next result.....but you knew that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 When Hockey goes overseas he doesn't mention the Australian Economy being in crisis. Funny That...... Why? Nev I would hope not, no need to air our dirty laundry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methusala Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 TP. If you are going to submit mindless twaddle please try to footnote your opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 After 3 years the LNP have chosen to implode, they could have chosen a plan B option and been prepared for the election but they chose to go to the election with the "plan A or nothing" option. And they are getting punished for it, if the ALP can keep QLD on course, could be another 12 years before we see another LNP government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Teckair, I take the opposite view. We here have been conned into accepting a projected situation that is made out to be worse than it really is as an excuse for their cutting back on everything and causing recessive conditions unnecessarily. Never is the fact there was a GFC mentioned by the LNP in their assessment of the Labor period. Both sides rely on Treasury for their predictions. When Costello was treasurer it (growth) was always underestimated. Different circumstances were operating then. Howard gave too much middle class welfare (that the electorate came to expect as an entitlement) to get re-elected. This fact[is acknowledged by just about any economist of note in Australia. Hockey is now experiencing what Swan had . Revenue was over estimated and there is a shortfall. The mining boom that was supposed to be the answer is faltering Martin Fergusson had his timing right. Martin is always heralded as a "GOOD" Labor minister because he was good for mining. The budget is a shocker and they should have had more brains than to expect to ram it through. It's the main reason they are on the nose now in a big way. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Barnaby spent most of the show frothing at the mouth about how you can't pay for roads and hospitals without the money coming from somewhere. Then a questioner asked why they don't look at taxing high superannuation and get rid of negative gearing, all of a sudden he shut up and muttered something about Joe Hockey not wanting him to comment on budget issues. I notice he didn't mention $50bn for new submarines or $65bn for 72 F-35's. Wonder how many Australians want to spend $115 billion on new military hardware rather than hospitals and roads. I thought Swannie came out best in that show, hopefully the public will start to realise how badly they were duped into getting rid of the mining & carbon taxes. I still like him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 After 3 years the LNP have chosen to implode, they could have chosen a plan B option and been prepared for the election but they chose to go to the election with the "plan A or nothing" option. And they are getting punished for it, if the ALP can keep QLD on course, could be another 12 years before we see another LNP government. How ? By Labor spending money that we don't have and putting QLD into even more debt ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rankamateur Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 How ? By Labor spending money that we don't have and putting QLD into even more debt ? Remember politicians spending our money is all good when you are receiving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Can I just give an example of the stupidity of this government. Remember when the Carbon Tax was rolled out, Labor quite rightly compensated the lowest income families (ie those on Centrelink payments) to negate the impact of higher power prices caused by the tax. LNP came in bleating how they had a mandate to repeal the CT, finally managed to. Now theoretically electricity prices SHOULD have gone down by the amount they went up by when the CT was introduced. This means that Centrelink recipients no longer need to be compensated for the effects of a tax that no longer exists. However everyone who ever got the Clean Energy Supplement is still getting it. (I think they renamed it "Energy Supplement"). Don't get me wrong, I think people on income support payments, especially Newstart, are already doing it extremely tough and deserve every little bit extra they can get. The right way to do this, however, would be to raise the basic benefit rate by the amount of the supplement and link it to CPI, at the same time removing the supplement. But for a government that constantly flourishes its "economic credentials" and "now the adults are in charge" to "Clean Up The Mess That Labor Left" to not only remove a tax bringing income IN to the treasury, but leave the compensation scheme for this tax meaning hundreds of millions going OUT of the treasury, smacks either of stupidity, political timidity, or just plain hypocrisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Why should the over achievers who have worked hard to get to where they are. Be punished by paying a higher rate of tax than the under achievers who have done stuff all to make their own lives better. Nobody is owed a living in this country, welfare is not a right, it is a privilege. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Why should the over achievers who have worked hard to get to where they are. Be punished by paying a higher rate of tax than the under achievers who have done stuff all to make their own lives better.Nobody is owed a living in this country, welfare is not a right, it is a privilege. If you assume that everyone on the dole is a bludger, nothing I say will change your attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 If you assume that everyone on the dole is a bludger, nothing I say will change your attitude. I didn't say everybody is a dole bludger, but that doesn't change the fact that welfare is a privilege, not a right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I didn't say everybody is a dole bludger, but that doesn't change the fact that welfare is a privilege, not a right. No, it's actually a right. Payments are administered under the Social Security Act 1991. If you meet the qualifications for that payment, it is your right to receive it. Nobody, from the Secretary of DHS down to the lowliest counter officer, can lawfully prevent you from being paid. Politicians often say "It's a privilege to serve" and it is, because as Can't-do Newman found out, the people can pull that privilege pretty damn quick. Welfare in this country is embedded in law and, providing the applicant meets the relevant criteria, cannot be rejected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Really? I would challenge anybody to fix their mess in a 100 days. Agree...and who could repair Howard's mess in 100 days? The LNP runs up environmental debts; ALP runs up economic debts. Which has more long term impact? The electoral cycle is too short. It takes a decade or more for government policy to yield dividends. Voters are too impatient. If politician's superannuation was dependent on the effects of their decisions some would starve and others would be millionaires. During Bob Hawke's term $100m of Better Cities funds was invested into regenerating Newcastle's run-down waterfront. That seed money attracted private investment of $900m which transformed the place. In a a few years abandoned industrial slums became upmarket residential precincts. By then, Minister Brian Howe was long gone. Did he ever get the credit for transforming a city? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I didn't say everybody is a dole bludger, but that doesn't change the fact that welfare is a privilege, not a right. Daz, many surveys have shown that viewers of Fox news always think that there are more people on the dole than there actually are. If you ever get a chance ggl "full employment" and you will see that the LNP want higher unemployment to keep wages down for big business. The only way to keep unemployment high is to crush small business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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