facthunter Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Business in Australia wants to be a protected species, and rely on lowest possible wages You generally have stability here which is not appreciated. Chase the lowest wages if you need to but surely a well run business will value it's workforce. Encourage your workers to be shareholders in the venture. Have a suggestion box and reward good input. Involve them like they do in Germany. The management attitude here is to make your workers unsure of their job being available on Monday for motivation. Doesn't work. All that attitude does is to make them look for somewhere else where they will have more dignity and be more appreciated for what they can offer the company they work for.. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 A champion team or a team of champions? 11am tomorrow for the big showdown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 How good is this? Ship your rubbish to Victoria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 No, it's actually a right. Payments are administered under the Social Security Act 1991. If you meet the qualifications for that payment, it is your right to receive it. Nobody, from the Secretary of DHS down to the lowliest counter officer, can lawfully prevent you from being paid. Politicians often say "It's a privilege to serve" and it is, because as Can't-do Newman found out, the people can pull that privilege pretty damn quick. Welfare in this country is embedded in law and, providing the applicant meets the relevant criteria, cannot be rejected. As far as I am concerned, nobody is owed a living. No wonder we have so many plebs in this country who have long term unemployment as a career. I am talking about the plebs who leave school and at the age of 40 have never worked a day in their life and neither have their parents. The dole was designed to help out workers who have lost their job for one reason or another. No wonder we have to pay so much tax, we pay it so these jokers can sit on their ar$e at home or at the pub. Easy solution, dont give them money. Give them food stamps and pay their rent direct. Both Labor and Liberal are guilty of bending over and giving in to these scabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 As far as I am concerned, nobody is owed a living. No wonder we have so many plebs in this country who have long term unemployment as a career. I am talking about the plebs who leave school and at the age of 40 have never worked a day in their life and neither have their parents. The dole was designed to help out workers who have lost their job for one reason or another. No wonder we have to pay so much tax, we pay it so these jokers can sit on their ar$e at home or at the pub. Easy solution, dont give them money. Give them food stamps and pay their rent direct. Both Labor and Liberal are guilty of bending over and giving in to these scabs. If it's any consolation, it's not much of a living. I'm sure most of them would rather have a good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methusala Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 "Why should the over achievers who have worked hard to get to where they are." Teckair Are these over achievers people like Gina Rhinehardt and Jamie Packer or simply people who were born into a privileged family who could afford a good education or people who were born clever or without some form of disability? To not understand that in a caring society some people are going to need help to live as they should in one of the wealthiest countries in the world is just dumb. I don't believe that you have really thought about this. Perhaps the "Pub test" is not all that great in deciding what place we want to live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Look up the facts Dazza. Australia is not a high taxing country. We are quite low compared with most similar countries. Does the LNP expect to run a large country with a sparse population with no tax revenue?. Australia has close to the right mix of public ownership. LNP only interested in anything if money in it for the exploiters. Do you want to pay to access a beach. Do you trust a private company to have a monopoly on your water supply. Like AWH was trying to do in Sydney. When you get a developer inspired Council in Western Sydney the local swimming pool gets sold off to a high rise developer, for a consideration. NSW banned contributions to political parties from developers but there are ways around it via Canberra with the 8 by 5 organisation. which I hope is still being investigated. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 ... in a caring society some people are going to need help to live as they should in one of the wealthiest countries in the world... I agree with Daz about welfare dependence, but why is our dumb government making it harder for the poor to access education and training? Once again we have right-wingers trying to bring in policies that have not worked in the USA. That country has widespread public squalor, an enormous underclass, endemic drug dependence and a vast archipelago of prisons. Americans look at our problems with envy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Perhaps IF they are more educated they will not vote for you? Seriously I reckon it's a move to privatise education generally.. Fits in with what is planned for the Universities. Underfund them and they will seek to go to the student loans (Hex Fees) which are paid off later IF the person doesn't leave the country or go bush or never gets the high paid jobs that maybe aren't there. Then WHO pays the debt?. The taxpayer of course . Only wealthy people will be able to be educated in the new Nirvana....That doesn't bother them.. If people deliberately choose to be poor or are disabled / injured.... stiff bikkies .Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 American cities where horrible, large areas of abandoned and semi demolished housing because working people are forced move out due to being burgled while at work. Move to America Daz and see how it works out. I don't understand why you are obsessed with the unemployed Daz. In Australia they represent 750,000 out of 23,000,00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Perhaps IF they are more educated they will not vote for you? Exactly - need a big pool of low-information, poorly educated welfare dependents to vote Labor. The party for the poor has an interest in keeping you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Have all rich people worked hard to get there? A few poker machines can do it for you or run a lottery, but that isn't MAKING money it's just TAKING money from addicts which ends up out of the local community as a result. What is an OVERACHIEVER?. What is the point of getting highly paid for a while as a mining FIFO, or work back every night, IF your marriage goes on the rocks, and your kids never see you at the important times? Having lots of money doesn't guarantee happiness and if you measure everything in terms of what you can get for it, it becomes an end in itself. It alters your personality adversely and distorts your view of the world. I've seen it happen to many. You are bombarded with clever propaganda persuading you you won't be happy till you have such and such "consumerable Junk" so what hope have you got? Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Exactly - need a big pool of low-information, poorly educated welfare dependents to vote Labor. The party for the poor has an interest in keeping you there. The health of a democracy is largely dictated by voters being well informed by a range of independent media. That may explain the constant attacks on public education and public broadcasters by the right. Rupert doesn't like competition. There have already been mutterings from the LNP about abolishing compulsory voting. The next step would be restricting the vote to owners of property. Backwards we go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Have all rich people worked hard to get there? A few poker machines can do it for you or run a lottery, but that isn't MAKING money it's just TAKING money from addicts which ends up out of the local community as a result.What is an OVERACHIEVER?. What is the point of getting highly paid for a while as a mining FIFO, or work back every night, IF your marriage goes on the rocks, and your kids never see you at the important times? Having lots of money doesn't guarantee happiness and if you measure everything in terms of what you can get for it, it becomes an end in itself. It alters your personality adversely and distorts your view of the world. I've seen it happen to many. You are bombarded with clever propaganda persuading you you won't be happy till you have such and such "consumerable Junk" so what hope have you got? Nev Nev have you been describing the USA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Gnu You reply is counterintuitive. It is Labor who want to make education available universally. The Others aren't interested. Tony says" IF you don't understand it. DON'T VOTE for it." and is an expert in confusion for the masses. They have no idea what his word is worth or when he really means something... Don't take my word for it . Look at the surveys... Even Liberal voters. Triumph of truth over spin...Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 "Why should the over achievers who have worked hard to get to where they are." Teckair Are these over achievers people like Gina Rhinehardt and Jamie Packer or simply people who were born into a privileged family who could afford a good education or people who were born clever or without some form of disability? To not understand that in a caring society some people are going to need help to live as they should in one of the wealthiest countries in the world is just dumb. I don't believe that you have really thought about this. Perhaps the "Pub test" is not all that great in deciding what place we want to live in. What's this? Try and get your facts right please. Not that I disagree with what Dazza has said there and no I don't think he is talking about Gina Rhinehardt or Jamie Packer but rather the many hard working self made achievers that exist. I know of people whose only ambition in life is to be on a disability pension. Sure life is not fair, but that should go without saying and you cannot fix it by penalising achievers and rewarding non achievers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Yeah you really live high on the Hog on a disability pension. Probably most people with disabilities suffer from acute depression as there are few opportunities for them to get employment that will enable them to survive on the money paid. Being demonised by a government must thrill them to the core too." Choose to be poor." what a disgraceful statement from a PM who claims 240 plus dollars a day when on pollie rides paid by the taxpayer. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 1 hour to go before we find out who leads the LNP in opposition, who would have that was happening after Newman's big win 3 years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 An aside: I like this thread because it is the first time I've been engaged in a discussion of politics where opposing views are being expressed without the vile and abuse that would be expected in a face-to-face situation. I'd like to thank the moderators who have allowed this thread to continue without censorship, and I congratulate contributors on maintaining a heated, but civilised involvement in the discussion. Here's my two bob's worth: I think that the official unemployment figures grossly underestimate the number of people who are unemployed, or worse still, underemployed. This country's real social problem is youth unemployment. If we do not generate meaningful occupations for our youth, we will only succeed in producing a population with no skills to weather future economic storms. We must consider the re-introduction of Tariffs to encourage the re-establishment of manufacturing in Australia which would bolster the use of our resources and primary products here where they are mined or grown. Sure, a tariff is likely to impact retail prices, but have a serious look at the overcharging taking place in the imported garment business. How can a retailer, like any one of the women's clothing retailers, justify price reductions of 70% on their goods and still be profitable? We should abandon the idea that university level education is required for everybody. We have let this idea turn the workplace structure upside down. We are seeking a society that looks like an upturned pyramid where the majority who have completed higher education are supported by a a small group with lower level education, but not illiterate, who do the producing. It is impossible to balance a pyramid on its pointy end. We should return to the societal structure we had during the 20th Century when the pyramid was sitting stably on its broad base. Knowledge was advanced by a few highly educated (and in parallel, highly skilled) people. Then this knowledge was applied by a broad base who used it to produce better products and who better utilised their resources. I propose that we should encourage methods that increase food and raw material production. That can reduce the number of people needed for this work, but who, through appropriate education and training can be moved into work involved in processing this increased raw material production. These processors need to be supported by a wide network involved in the clothing, construction, transport, recreational and educational industries. It is only then that we can afford to encourage the pursuit of knowledge in its broadest meaning by people who's efforts can be economically supported by the efforts of the others in less esoteric pursuits. The pyramid symbolism is the way human society has developed over the past 50,000 years. It has only been in the last quarter of the 20th Century that this tried and true societal organisation has been turned upside down by the Troubadours taking over control of society from the Warriors. Perhaps we Baby Boomers have visited a curse pon our children and our children's children. Old Man Emu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Tariffs are generally avoided due to trade agreements, its all done via currency manipulation these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methusala Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 Apologies to Teckair...mistaken identity (must try harder) Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 What's this? Try and get your facts right please. Not that I disagree with what Dazza has said there and no I don't think he is talking about Gina Rhinehardt or Jamie Packer but rather the many hard working self made achievers that exist. I know of people whose only ambition in life is to be on a disability pension. Sure life is not fair, but that should go without saying and you cannot fix it by penalising achievers and rewarding non achievers. It's not the people who have nothing and are on benefits you should be worried about. It's the people who have - and I'm not joking or exaggerating here - MILLIONS, which they tie up in convoluted trusts with the help of high-priced accountants, then claim the Age Pension under Assets Hardship provisions. Plus the primary residence is not included in the Asset test, so they continue to live in a $5 million house in Sydney's north shore or a Gold Coast monstrosity. These people exist, they have more money than most full-time workers but they receive a full pension paid for by your tax dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 The (AGE) pension is so small you have to be exceptionally skilled to live on it. Everyone gets it in England Yes the "lurks " are worked. Its a game in this country played mostly by the rich. Paying tax is voluntary for the rich. You can pick the ones without" class" Conspicuous consumer is the key. Look at me Look at me. nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 There are always going to be votes appealing to the antiwelfare mob sadly. It reflects badly on us as nation when gov's cave into them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 How good is this? Ship your rubbish to Victoria I'm in Indi today FT and was able to read the full story. The invitation was a personal letter, not LP. The Nationals hold Indi so CN would be nuts to even think about it. CN didn't respond to the story. Just a bit of fun to suck in the FTs . Given today's news that there may not be a government in Queensland until April and LNP may still form governent is this thread heading accurate any more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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