UFO's

[Dax]

Now that the USA has released part of their documentation of UFO's (UAP), what do others derive from it and has it changed your perception of these events.

[octave]

Well I am certainly a skeptic.    I have read some good explanations and recreations of the videos released.     I also find it interesting that in this age when pretty much everyone carries a camera with them (phone) and high quality equipment is available that the best they can offer is a poorly resolved blob.   I am in a FB astrophotography group and people post plenty of pictures of the ISS passing in front of the moon.  These pictures are often taken with modest equipment but still capture great detail.    

 

I am not saying these people didn't see any U-unidentified A-aerial P- phenomena   but it is a huge stretch to ascribe them to alien craft playing hide and seek rather than natural effects or manmade objects.

[pmccarthy]

Seems to me two extra hypotheses are worth considering.

 

1 these things exist in a parallel universe perhaps made of dark matter. We will never touch them in ours. This is unlikely, as they seem to cluster around defense sites.

2 They are images produced by a convergence of several focussed laser beams producing an area of superheated air in a projected pattern. This would enable them to move at any speed including "faster than light". 

 

I also do not rule out entirely observation from the future, although this is real science fiction. Subjective travel into the future is easy, just get yourself frozen. Physical travel into the past is impossible, not least because of the grandfather effect. But our observation of the past is getting better and better, through techniques like DNA analysis, thermoluminscence etc. Perhaps in the far future direct observation of the past will be possible. There may be particular interest in military technologies in the immediate years before the apocalypse.

 

Remember "nothing is real". It is all made out of atoms with great spaces between them, and quantum links we are only beginning to appreciate.

[Dax]

I have no idea what they are, but have seen some things in my life which I can't explain and they don't fit our accepted category of flying objects. Only got interested when they said they were releasing a report on them and since then have looked at many videos and photo's of these things. Most can be explained logically and those that can't, we just don't know.

 

When you look at the subject from a universal aspect, you can come up with some interesting answers for the blurred images and reasoning behind their appearance around our planet, which there have been sightings for as long as history.

 

Our known universe is very old compared to our solar system and our galaxy, by billions of light years, not our solar years. Humans have only been around a very short time and our space technology, only about a half a century. I'm assuming there is intelligent life throughout the universe, to think otherwise is rather short sighted as it's so big and we still don't know how old or big and it has trillions of galaxies many so massive yo could put ten milky ways into one. So it's logical to assume there would be many more advanced intelligent societies in the universe, which would be millions of years more advanced than humans.

 

These societies would have tehcnology so far advanced, they probably are capable of transiting the universe in a very small time frame and would have passed the slow speed of light long ago and are probably capable of inter dimensional travel' Which brings me to the blurry videos and photo's, which can  be easily explained when you look at it universally.

 

We live in a 3 dimensional reality, if these craft are not earthly, then they may well be inter dimensional craft which uses other dimensions to transit the universe. This means we only see the 3 dimensional aspect of them and the rest which we can't determine is fuzzy. No different to an ant looking up and a human, they would see portion of us in their dimensional understanding and the rest of us, would look blurry.

 

It's the same with travel, we class light as the fastest thing in the universe, when it is probably the one of the slowest universal energies there is. Using the ant again, if an ant looked across at a hill far away and calculated it would take ants millions of life times to reach the hill, ants would claim it as impossible with their tehcnology. But if an ant happened to climb onto a human vehicle, it would reach the hill in less than one ant life time, completely destroying the ants concept of time. Yet the ant would not have recognised the human vehicle at all, just experienced travel way beyond ants abilities.

 

These unexplained ufo's, could be inter dimensional vehicles, designed to transist through other dimensions to overcome the distance of space. There is however another theory, science has claimed very recently there are star system not far from us where inhabitants could easily be watching us and we know there is at least one habitable planet within out nearest neighbours, the Alpha Centauri group of 3 stars. It's an older star system, so they could have been sending vehicles to investigate and watch us and what is being seen, are the drones from a mother ship. We have sent drones to may planets and have one flying on Mars no reason why a highly advanced intelligence couldn't or wouldn't do the same. But it's fascinating subject, as they can't explain some of them at all.

[octave]

This is from the who replicates the video footage.     I strongly believe that life must exist elsewhere in the universe but I don't believe they visit the play hide and seek with aircraft or the planets people.       I also adhere to Ockham's razor.

 

 

Pyramid UFO" - NEW FOOTAGE. It's Just Bokeh, not a Pyramid

[red750]

1 hour ago, octave said:

it interesting that in this age when pretty much everyone carries a camera with them (phone) and high quality equipment is available that the best they can offer is a poorly resolved blob. 

The same could be said about Bigfoot. Hours of television about supposedly trained guys stumbling about in the dark with all sorts of gear and all they can come up with is a few infrared bobs. If these creatures live and reproduce, how come there has never been a clear photo of one. How come a skeleton has never been found. There was an American comedian who died of a drug overdose, Mitch somebody, who had an explanation. "Bigfoot is blurry."

 

Edit: Found his name - Mitch Hedberg.

[octave]

I am reminded of the book The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy

 

“Teasers are usually rich kids with nothing to do. They cruise around looking for planets that haven’t made interstellar contact yet and buzz them.” “Buzz them?” Arthur began to feel that Ford was enjoying making life difficult for him. “Yeah,” said Ford, “they buzz them. They find some isolated spot with very few people around, then land right by some poor unsuspecting soul whom no one’s ever going to believe and then strut up and down in front of him wearing silly antennas on their head and making beep beep noises.”

― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

[facthunter]

The universe is unimaginably big so how could you rule out almost anything. being possible. There's also been enough time pass for complex things to happen far beyond our ability  to comprehend.. Nev

[spacesailor]

AND The next galaxy is '  2.5 million light years ' distance, thats a lot of AGE to be added to Their inhabitants. (  Andromeda ). 

Who wants to guess at Their   'personal transport '.

And it,s coming Closer as l type !

spacesailor

 

[octave]

I certainly believe that other civilizations exist that are both more primitive and more advanced.    As an advanced civilization they could make the choice to announce their presence or conceal it rather than to pop up here and there. I can not see any reason that they would not either visit undetected or land on the Whitehouse lawn and say "take me to your leader"  rather than appearing fleetingly to a small number of people.

 

I have never seen an picture or video that does not have a more mundane explanation than aliens. 

[Dax]

Have a look at these couple of videos,

 

https://www.iheart.com/content/2020-02-26-nasa-captures-footage-of-ufo-on-space-station-live-cam/

 

Found these when looking for ufo videos, there are certainly lots of fake and misinterpreted, but these two are very clear. The second one many have said it's a cargo vessel which was up there around that time and at firs ti  agreed it was the logical explanation. Until I checked out the cargo shop they were talking about to find it was nothing like the one in this video and had hug antenna hanging of it, this one is smooth and certainly not going to ISS, as it passed it and went into space.

[octave]

1 hour ago, Dax said:

Have a look at these couple of videos,

 

https://www.iheart.com/content/2020-02-26-nasa-captures-footage-of-ufo-on-space-station-live-cam/

 

Found these when looking for ufo videos, there are certainly lots of fake and misinterpreted, but these two are very clear. The second one many have said it's a cargo vessel which was up there around that time and at firs ti  agreed it was the logical explanation. Until I checked out the cargo shop they were talking about to find it was nothing like the one in this video and had hug antenna hanging of it, this one is smooth and certainly not going to ISS, as it passed it and went into space.

 

Low earth orbit is full of discarded rocket parts and the occasional tool lost by spacewalking astronauts. 

 

In the second video the narrator says that this is a large object.  I would challenge how anyone could confidently assert that.   Is it a small object relatively close or is it a large object at greater distance. The notion that this object is matching the speed of the ISS is a bit misleading.   the only way to match speeds in orbit is to be in the same or similar orbit.  This would suggest that this object is almost in the same orbit and therefore must be quite close.   

 

Reasons for seeing an object near the ISS?

 

Space junk from previous launches.

Lost items from space walks

Aliens

 

I am leaning towards one of the first two before getting excited about the third.

 

Unknown' space debris almost flew within 1 mile of the International Space Station.

Lost in space: debris shield bag floats away from astronauts during ISS spacewalk

Edited June 27, 2021 by octave

[octave]

This clip is quite interesting, it goes through the report that some sensationalist media has cherry picked snippets from.     In posting this I am quite certain that most people here will find too long to watch (37 minutes) but it is quite a reasonable assessment.    If you read a headline that says the released report confirms any kind of alien technology then it is a gross exaggeration.

 

UAP/UFO Report - Initial Assessment

 

 

 

 

[onetrack]

We have been searching for life in our Universe for multiple centuries, with the search expanding and increasing in the last 5 decades, since the Space Race started.

 

The only thing we have verifiably found is squillions of more stars, hundreds of thousands of more galaxies, tens of thousands of new stars - and we have never yet, found the end, or the edge of our Universe.

 

We have sent spacecraft into outer space with messages for other civilisations, and with equipment looking for, and listening for, other civilisations. They have reported NOTHING. 

 

We have vast arrays of equipment here on Earth examining radio waves that have been travelling for billions of light years. To this time we have discovered absolutely NOTHING, even faintly resembling any recognisable life form.

 

We are alone in this Universe. I have little doubt there are parallel Universes, and other time dimensions, where life forms exist - but we cannot reach them, or contact them - our available tools and methods are too puny.

 

We get a glimpse of other worlds when we see ghosts, apparitions, or "poltergists". There are plenty of these reported by sensible, educated people - even in broad daylight - and often when the viewers are not even looking for them.

[octave]

19 minutes ago, onetrack said:

We have been searching for life in our Universe for multiple centuries, with the search expanding and increasing in the last 5 decades, since the Space Race started.

 

We haven't even scratched the surface.   The vastness of the universe means that signals we have sent into space have not travelled even a fraction of the distance through our local galaxy.   Likewise when we use radio telescopes to observe distant objects we are also looking back in time.   Suppose there was a planet that was almost identical to earth.  If this planet  was 10 million light years away then the radio and light waves we are receiving are 10 million years old due to the speed of light.  If you consider what our earth was like 10 million years ago you would net expect to be able to detect life from a distance.     It is not just a case of where other life might be but when other life might be.

 

In terms of our earth being detected by other civilizations we we have only been sending radio waves into space for less than 100 years.   We are only likely to be able to be detected by a civilization within 100 years.

 

 

 

The milky way contains between 100 to 400 billion stars and it  is thought about the same number of planets. It is thought there are 2 trillion galaxies in the universe.   

 

[Dax]

There is also the probability advanced societies in our galaxy have communication and surveillance systems thousand of years ahead of ours. Less than 100 years of radio, less than 50 years of space travel which has yet to get humans past the moon and our most adventurous probes, the voyagers 1 and 2, have just left our solar system. Our technology is very primitive compared to what may be needed for us to transit our own solar system in a reasonable time, then there's our galaxy. 

[octave]

The odds of life elsewhere on some of the trillions of planets in the universe seems almost inevitable.       A lot of that life is likely to be simple microbial life.  There are many reasons that advanced life rare although given the size of the universe it may still amount to a high number.  Civilizations may develop thrive and then die out.   If we don't  end ourselves through mismanagement or perhaps an asteroid we are done in 4.5 billion tears anyway when the sun becomes unstable. Of course we may master space travel by then.

 

If these advanced civilizations exist we and they are separated by huge distances and more importantly time.   We can never hope to meet civilizations that have come and gone as well as those that are yet to develop.

 

Although I suspect that there may be advanced civilizations I am skeptical that we are being visited.   The evidence is pretty weak and it seems intriguing that a civilization advanced enough to travel vast distances would hang around making the occasional appearance.  Surely if they want to be seen they will be in plain sight and if they don't want to be seen they would not be so sloppy as to be caught out.   The implication is often that some advanced alien is flying around our aircraft as if trying to figure them out, this seems an unlikely method for an advanced life form.

 

Don't get me wrong, I would absolutely love it if we made contact with intelligent life from another planet but so far the evidence is disappointing.

[spacesailor]

4.5 Billion years !.

Well before that happens, (  5 billion )

Andromeda galaxy Will pass Through our Milkyway galaxy. Close enough to jump from here to there. Then we become ' Gallatic voyagers '..

AT 110 KLMS PER SECOND, closing speed, it is aleady visible on a very dark night, by eyesight.

Have a look on a Clear moonless night.

earthsky.org

spacesailor

 

.

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by spacesailor
More added

[Dax]

2 hours ago, octave said:

Although I suspect that there may be advanced civilizations I am skeptical that we are being visited.   The evidence is pretty weak and it seems intriguing that a civilization advanced enough to travel vast distances would hang around making the occasional appearance. 

Yet we observe just about every form of life here, including microscopic life and we use drones and partly concealed cameras to do this 24/7. Why wouldn't an advanced species capable of transiting the universe as we transit our planet, be doing the same out of curiosity. An advanced intelligence would be very interested in what a primitve life form is doing, in real time. We don't interfere with ants having wars, we observe and it's the same for most of nature, we observe, unless we are dedicated killers, they slaughter. With extremely advanced tehcnology aliens could sit back and watch through their drones, no nee to interfere, just observe and may even use t as reality TV in their technology. Which would more than likely be in mutli dimensional to get the right effect.🤔

 

We don't even know of there are vast distances between stars or galaxies, our time is a very simple concept which only fits on the earth. Once we get off earth, out time ceases to exist simply because of the time factor of our solar system galaxy and the universe

[octave]

1 hour ago, Dax said:

Why wouldn't an advanced species capable of transiting the universe as we transit our planet, be doing the same out of curiosity.

They would I should imagine but the problem is that the distribution of advanced civilizations must be pretty sparse.    I would imagine any amazingly advanced civilization would have little to fear from us so why just present yourself as fuzzy fleeting illusive shapes.    There have been reports of unexplained aerial phenomena for years, how much more observation is required?  They could just log onto wikipedia and learn a lot about us or even make contact.

 

The video examples that are presented have far less unlikely explanations.

[spacesailor]

THEY HAVE !

All ancient civilizations have shown ' spacemen ' in their drawings. 

spacesailor

[Dax]

1 hour ago, octave said:

They would I should imagine but the problem is that the distribution of advanced civilizations must be pretty sparse.    I would imagine any amazingly advanced civilization would have little to fear from us so why just present yourself as fuzzy fleeting illusive shapes.    There have been reports of unexplained aerial phenomena for years, how much more observation is required?  They could just log onto wikipedia and learn a lot about us or even make contact.

The most central point in a discussion like this is, we don't know and can make many conjectures and conclusions as we want, but we don't know and we are probably unable to understand their technology. There is also the strong possibility advanced aliens have no way of communicating with us properly, just like we have no way of communicating with ants and lots of other living beings on this planet.

 

They may not be able to survive in our atmosphere, just like if we ran into titans or plutonians, we aren't capable of surviving in their atmospheres without huge supporting mechanisms. After all, what consists of an intelligent alien may not be anything like what we are. That goes for there being civilisations around the universe, we only have our human understanding of intelligent life and we may be the least advanced in our galaxy as we are on the very edge of it.

 

I would assume life would evolve according to the environmental conditions, just as happens on earth. Marine animals don't survive outside water, land based animals don't survive in water and it may well be that advanced aliens have environmental requirements completely different to us. Our atmosphere may crush them, or they may explode because our atmosphere is to light for them to exist, or to toxic an environment.

 

I'd like to think intelligent life is throughout the universe. just comes in as many different forms as there are planets capable of having life on them and we don't even know what that constitutes.

[octave]

Dax let me be clear that I do not disagree with idea that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe, I don't even rule out past visitation although I tend to think it is unlikely at this time but still possible.  The thing that concerns me the most is poor analysis of what is being offered up as evidence.  We need to be logical and rational when examining evidence.  The recent videos offered up in the media have rational explanations an can be repeated.    A fuzzy infrared image with a halo with lights that flash with the same pattern as a 737 is more than likely a 737.        There is a big problem with discarded detritus from various space programs, this is a recognized problem,  The ISS has often had to adjust its orbit to avoid an object.     Recently I was watching NASA live during the Spacex crew dragon launch.  Sometime after they achieved orbit they received a warning from NASA that an unidentified object was going to pass close by so they were advised to put their pressure suits back on.  This was reported in some of the more sensationalist media as some kind of encounter with a UAP.    It is quite true that the object was uncatalogued and therefore I guess unidentified but certainly anyone with knowledge of the space program understands that we have been pretty untidy in the first few decades of space travel.    Leaping to the conclusion that aerial phenomena that we cant immediately must therefore be from a galaxy far far away is not particularly useful.

 

 

A question I would pose is that if these sightings are so common why can we not get better images,   Sure fighter aircraft are configured to detect other aircraft.  I would be all for equipping military aircraft with optical  high resolution cameras.  

[Dax]

15 minutes ago, octave said:

Dax let me be clear that I do not disagree with idea that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe, I don't even rule out past visitation although I tend to think it is unlikely at this time but still possible. 

Neither do I, but am skepical as many others are. To me it's great subject to discuss and speculate, as that's all we are doing.

 

17 minutes ago, octave said:

A question I would pose is that if these sightings are so common why can we not get better images,   Sure fighter aircraft are configured to detect other aircraft.  I would be all for equipping military aircraft with optical  high resolution cameras.  

In my mind, the first thing we have to do is dismiss the idea they have tehcnology the same as ours, which would definitely be the case if they travelled across the universal waste lands that make up a huge part of our universe, or galaxy.

 

We have massive trouble just getting off our planets surface, so blurry photos and weird 3 dimensional looking objects suggests to me we are looking at a small portion of a multidimensional vehicle which have no idea of understanding at present. When I say multidimensional, I'm not talking of some thing from the 10 dimension, but materials we have no idea of understanding at this point of our evolution.

 

The answer to your question, could be in the difference in technology used by us compared to them. So it's not illogical to assume they look blurry because we don't understand what we are looking at.

 

[willedoo]

4 hours ago, octave said:

They would I should imagine but the problem is that the distribution of advanced civilizations must be pretty sparse.    I would imagine any amazingly advanced civilization would have little to fear from us so why just present yourself as fuzzy fleeting illusive shapes.    There have been reports of unexplained aerial phenomena for years, how much more observation is required?  They could just log onto wikipedia and learn a lot about us or even make contact.

octave, you're applying human logic to someone or something that is not human. It's possible that if alien civilizations exist, they have thought processes and habits nothing like ours. It's possible there's civilizations millions of years ahead of us that are no longer biological. Digital AI might have replaced organic beings long ago. Another explanation might be that the aliens have a sense of humour and for decades have been p*ssing themselves over the cat and mouse guessing game they play with us. We might be just entertainment for them.