UFO's

[red750]

Amazing the number of nay-sayers who become believers when they have a personal experience. (UFO's, Bigfoot, etc.)

[spacesailor]

The reason for the excess USA films & video, is simple. 

The US had CHEAP film and camera's . Every four year old had one .

Here & the UK the Tax pushed that pricing out of novices hands ,

Plus the main manufacturer was deaply into price gouging ! , so much the English took them to court over it.

spacesailor

[rgmwa]

23 minutes ago, red750 said:

Amazing the number of nay-sayers who become believres when they have a personal experience. (UFO's, Bigfoot, etc.)

Even more amazing are the number who bypass the naysayer stage and become believers without personal experience.

 

[willedoo]

One well known firm believer in UFO's was famous Soviet test pilot Marina Popovich, aka Madam MiG. She wrote books on the subject and dedicated quite a bit of her post air force years to it. She claimed to have seen them and also said that a lot of Soviet pilots had as well. One story she related was of pilots trying to intercept an aircraft that was leaving them for dead even though they were in full afterburner speed, and that was a long time before any known hypersonic developments. I can't recall off the top of my head what her opinion was on the possible existence of ET's, but she claimed personal experience of UFO's.

 

The thing that makes me wonder is that if sightings in the 60's and 70's were man-made top secret government projects, some of those developments should have started to show up in military or other applications by now. The U.S. for example, is still struggling to field a successful hypersonic model decades after sightings of UFO's. And from what we've seen of Russia's junk army in the Ukraine war, it's unlikely they've been building UFO's with amazing technology all those years ago.

 

As far as Marina Popovich goes, I'd rate her as a sane reliable person and not a conspiracy theory nutter who'd believe anything. She was an air force colonel, Hero of the Soviet Union awardee, the most accomplished female pilot ever and wife of a famous cosmonaut. Her interest in UFO's spanned decades so it wasn't some delusional hobby of a senile old lady.

 

It's a bit of a mystery; a lot of things about the subject are illogical and don't add up. Then there's the high number of American fighter pilots who have had interactions with UFO's. Surely they are reasonably reliable witnesses.

[rgmwa]

There’s no doubt that many credible witnesses have reported sighting UFO’s and they have been tracked on radar as well. I’m very skeptical of the authenticity of the multitude of videos doing the rounds these days, but it wouldn’t surprise me if some sightings were of real objects that behaved as described and are of unknown origin. That said, it is still odd that after decades of sightings no hard, irrefutable evidence seems to have turned up yet. 

[facthunter]

In a universe the size of this one there MUST be somewhere else where life exists, Just what form it would take is anybody's guess.. Life develops in the conditions that permit it a totally random way where CHANCE plays a big part. IF earth ran it's run again WE would NOT be as we are and WE are surely made of it and suited for it..   Nev

[red750]

I watched a two-part documentary about Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP's) with US military video of objects, one being the famous "flying Tic Tac" video shot by a F-14.. The contention was that we are being visited. Too many instances of UAP manouvring in ways and at speeds that our current technology could not emulate. A fair bit of refernce to Area 51. 

 

There is an international organisation of about 4000 observers who recorded over 1,500 sightings in the three years 2018 to 2020, from Sussex to Mexico to Portugul, as well as the US.

[octave]

Tracking Down a Tic-Tac UFO

 

Mick West is a great resource in analyzing footage.

 

I have no doubt that pilots see phenomena that they can not explain. This does not mean that the most likely explanation is extra terrestrial.     At any one time there are thousands and thousands of planes in the air and yet these sightings are relatively rare.    Around the world there are astronomers analyzing the night sky in minute detail.  Radio telescopes searching for radio signals,  Why aren't astronomers observing these phenomena.  I can not think of a single high resolution picture or video.   Of the pictures and videos I have seen many are obvious fakes but some are just optical effects such as the the pyramid filmed by the US Navy.

 

"Pyramid UFO" - NEW FOOTAGE. It's Just Bokeh, not a Pyramid

 

 

I totally believe that life exists elsewhere in the universe however you would surely have to admit that the evidence of visitation is pretty sketchy.

 

[octave]

The SETI Institute (Search for Extraterrestrial Life) has been searching for signs of intelligent life for years now but so far to no avail.   This page from SETIs website I think is a rational summary of the situation.  Well worth a read     https://www.seti.org/ufos      

[onetrack]

I have little doubt there are other "civilisations" in other worlds, and we can observe their strange, fast moving "craft" in the sky, on occasions. But I think we have to be very careful in that we are looking for "extra-terrestial life" in the same form, style or shape, as we see it from our poor Earth-based human view, and even poorer understanding of the possibilities how that "life" could exist.

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - Planet Earth is an outcast in the Universe - the Planet of the War between Good and Evil. No extra-terrestial life with any degree of intelligence, would want to visit this planet. They would fully understand they would almost certainly be attacked by citizens of this planet, who nearly all live in fear - of the unknown, of neighbours, of something that is "different" to us.

 

I have no doubt these beings inhabit a time warp, whereby they exist in another dimension, which even the most celebrated of our great scientific minds can barely grasp. Our minds are feeble by these beings measure, and they have no real need to contact us, or even inspect our planet.

 

The fact that we "see" these strange things in the sky, which move at speeds we can scarcely understand, is quite likely due to these beings occasionally breaking through the barrier between our dimension and theirs, and they then depart when they realise there is a chance of accidental contact - which they do not want, for fear of "contamination" by our basically evil natures or actions.

 

Just as a cat is fascinated and gets absorbed by a laser light shining on a surface, wielded by a human - without any understanding of how that light is generated, or how it is being manipulated - so are we just like entranced cats, fascinated by the UFO's in our sky, with no real understanding of where they come from, what is driving them, or what "life form" is behind them.

[rgmwa]

I also think it’s likely that intelligent life exists elsewhere in our galaxy and throughout the universe, however I can see no reason why an advanced civilisation would time warp their way into our atmosphere where we could see them. Of all the places they could go, why turn up here in this inconsequential outpost hidden away on the edge of the galaxy? What are the chances of even finding us? The time warp theory doesn’t make sense to me except that it might explain how to cover those distances provided you could deal with the profound psychological disorientation of trying to work out when and where you were at any  given moment.

[red750]

7 hours ago, rgmwa said:

Of all the places they could go, why turn up here in this inconsequential outpost hidden away on the edge of the galaxy?

We are constantly searching out new worlds, with so many predicting that our own has a shortening limited lifespan. Why could the same not be true elsewhere? Could they not be from worlds in a more perilous situation than our own, and looking for "Planet B"?

 

There are so many suggestions of things beyond our knowledge, things that almost defy explanation. You all denounced the video of the supposed portal with the vanishing saucer. Yet there have been numerous portayals of portals into other worlds in movies, TV dramas and even kids cartoons. Where did all these ideas come from?

 

There are also suggestins that creatures, like bigfoot, can transfer to other dimensions, or shape-shift into different creatures, to avoid detection. One such suggestion, dating from American Indian folklore, is that bigfoot can change into a bear. Now you see one, now you see the other.

 

So many possibilities. Here's just one example of why we shouldn't dismiss some possibilities we can't conceive.

 

Galaxies found that "can't exist".

[octave]

The "time warp" explanation is going way too far in order to explain in what is in most cases, mundane observations. The US navy videos all have mundane explanations and can be explained and reproduced easily (see the mick West videos).   I good principle in science is Occams Razor.

 

Occam's razor (also Ockham's razor; Latin: lex parsimoniae "law of parsimony") is a problem-solving principle that, when presented with competing hypothetical answers to a problem, one should select the one that makes the fewest assumptions. 

 

The percentage of people in the world who believe they haves seen a UFO is incredibly small.  I have no doubt that military pilots are genuine and have seen things that are difficult to explain but there are many more mundane explanations before we leap to time warp travelling aliens.  I think the possibility should always remain on the table but the UFO crowd never seem to consider phenomena such as optical illusions, effects within the camera (bokeh effect for example).

 

An example is in one of the videos I posted.  The so called pyramid UFO.    It turns out that the night vision camera the navy use has a three bladed iris and when out of focus produces a three sided blob that appears to dart around as the camera moves.    We know that even highly trained pilots are susceptible to illusions especially at night.

 

When investigating any mystery we should always rule out the mundane before leaping the the fantastic.    

 

All possibilities should be on the table however doesn't it just make sense to start with the probable and mundane before settling on aliens?

 

 

  

[octave]

6 minutes ago, red750 said:

Could they not be from worlds in a more perilous situation than our own, and looking for "Planet B"?

 

 

I think UFOs sightings have been around for many years certainly since the war years.  One of the earliest misidentifications may well have been the star that (allegedly) led the folks to Bethlehem (but could well just have been Venus)    If a civilization is looking for a planet B they sure have been looking for a long time. A civilization that can "time jump"  would truly be master of the universe and perhaps would have the technology to fix whatever problem has caused them to look for a planet B.

 

On the other side of the equation, as far as we know the governments and military's of the world do not seem to be that interested other than to record observations.   Would it not give a country huge military advantage if it could analyze such a craft? 

 

Then there is the fact that some of these observations are likely to be unknown craft.   The China balloon incident is unlikely to be only a recent phenomena.  There were many alleged sightings after WW2 and the whole "Area 51" thing.   Can it be a coincidence that at a time and in a place where much testing of new aviation technology was occurring that people observed flying craft that they could not easily identify?

Don't get me wrong, as I have said I strongly believe that we cant be alone in the universe.   I used to use an app whereby when my computer was sitting unused SETI sends radio data to be analyzed by my and thousands of other home PCs  So I am definitely interested and would love to see some quality evidence not just blurry videos of blobs    

[rgmwa]

2 hours ago, red750 said:

We are constantly searching out new worlds, with so many predicting that our own has a shortening limited lifespan. Why could the same not be true elsewhere? Could they not be from worlds in a more perilous situation than our own, and looking for "Planet B"?

 

There are so many suggestions of things beyond our knowledge, things that almost defy explanation. You all denounced the video of the supposed portal with the vanishing saucer. Yet there have been numerous portayals of portals into other worlds in movies, TV dramas and even kids cartoons. Where did all these ideas come from?

 

There are also suggestins that creatures, like bigfoot, can transfer to other dimensions, or shape-shift into different creatures, to avoid detection. One such suggestion, dating from American Indian folklore, is that bigfoot can change into a bear. Now you see one, now you see the other.

 

So many possibilities. Here's just one example of why we shouldn't dismiss some possibilities we can't conceive.

 

Galaxies found that "can't exist".

If we are planet B they seem to be taking a long time making up their minds about taking up residence here.  Maybe not surprising given the erratic and unpredictable inhabitants busily destroying the place. I agree there are heaps of interesting possibilities. I was an avid SF reader in my teens.

 

However, show me the hard evidence to back up any of the possible explanations. So far, there isn't anything that proves beyond doubt that there is anyone flying around on this planet other than us.

[octave]

Here is an interesting analysis of the so called gimbal video.   Rather long (21 minutes but very detailed.   Worth watching not just for UFO purposes but if you have any interest in how the targeting camera works on a jet fighter.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Are we planet B !.

It's too late to worry now !.

WE Are the immigrants fron planet A.

They took over at the last ' ice age ' when Earth was ,

SNOWBALL EARTH

Are we HomoHabilis .

Australopithecus,

Or from planet A ?.

spacesailor

 

[willedoo]

Here's a hypothetical type question. Let's say you are a sceptic; not a sceptic for the sake of it, but a sceptic based on our known scientific logic and lack of hard evidence. Then one night, you see a light in the sky with a speed, trajectory, and behaviour that rules out any natural cause or optical illusion. The light doesn't just shoot once across the sky, but is present for ten minutes or more, sometimes hovering and turning slowly, at other times accelerating across a large section of the night sky in almost no time.

 

After watching this light for some time, you then see it accelerate upwards, eventually glowing red, then white hot before disappearing upward in the night sky, very similar to the sight of a meteorite burning out. Except this is no meteorite. You've watched it traverse the sky for ten minutes or more, seeing it behave at times similar to a helicopter or aeroplane, and at other times zooming big distances at a speed not possible for any man made craft.

 

And here's the catch; you are not alone. There's someone else with you seeing exactly the same thing. So what do you believe? There's nothing about what you saw that can be pigeon-holed and put in a nice little sceptic's box with a convenient explanation. You and another person have seen it with your own eyes, so it's not a case of trying to make a determination on some other person's claims, photographs or video. Obviously, neither of you can discuss it with others as you would not be believed.

 

So do you believe what you saw with your own eyes, or do you explain it as two sober people with no history of mental illness suddenly experiencing delusion at exactly the same time, and then when the event is over, neither of you ever experience delusions again. This is theoretical, but what if it was you? What does your evidence based, logic and science driven brain make of it? There's no scam photo or video to debunk, no other party to disbelieve, only your own experience to think about. A lot of people have been in that situation. What would you do if it was you?

[rgmwa]

I would believe what I/we saw and no doubt spend the rest of my life wondering what it was.  I'd have no qualms about telling others about it, but it wouldn't worry or surprise me if they didn't believe a word of it. 

 

[willedoo]

One of the craziest UFO theories was that old one of Nazis who escaped the war living in underground bunkers under Antarctica and building and operating the flying saucers.

[facthunter]

No One could say with any real authority that there is NOBODY out there.  I used to think it was unlikely  that we are not alone, but now I'm prepared to concede our planet may indeed be a rare thing with things unusually just right for a lot of things to occur.  We are protected from cosmic rays for instance.  Oxygen level is just right though things do burn rather easily. Nev

[octave]

 

18 minutes ago, willedoo said:

Here's a hypothetical type question.

 

I do believe that reports should definitely be taken seriously and the reporter should not be belittled.   Such reports should be investigated. Here is my problem though.  Seeing something that appears to be incomprehensible does not mean there is no explanation.   Many years ago I saw at sunrise two vertical glowing bars moving across the sky.  To this day I have no idea what it was. However in my mind I have a list of explanations ordered by probability.

 

Firstly did I really see it or imagine it?   Well if memory serves my correctly my friend also saw it.

 

It could have been the silver foil portion of a weather balloon (many years later when I live on a property I came across a weather balloon that had burst and plunged to the ground. For many years I kept the Styrofoam covered with aluminum foil for radar purposes) 

 

Perhaps it was alien beings that broke all known laws of physics to visit a planet with sentient beings, not to make contact but to show themselves to a selective group of people over a prolonged time span for reasons unknown. 

 

Between optical illusion and beings that can subvert all known (by humans) laws of physics  there is a large list of possibilities.  I have great respect for those who start with the most likely and mundane explanations and then work their way, through a process of elimination, to the more unlikely scenarios.

 

The UFO enthusiast do not do this.

 

Of course there can be observation without a video or photographic record.   There are first hand accounts of people seeing Allah or god or Jesús or ghosts.    I am more than happy to accept hard evidence for any of these phenomena.  I guess it is just bad luck if something does exist but evidence can not be produced.  It may seem like being nice and open minded to accept first hand accounts, but if I accept UFOs on anecdotal evidence then surely I would have o accept crystal healing and reiki and al sorts of other assertions.    

 

I absolutely want proof of extraterrestrial intelligence.  My intense enthusiasm for space research is built on that.  Apart from that, being an atheist, I would absolutely love to be able to say to my religious friends that we are not the only intelligent life in the universe so your bible is bollocks.

 

i can't wait for evidence of life elsewhere but unfortunately evidence does not yet exist.

 

 

[willedoo]

22 minutes ago, octave said:

There are first hand accounts of people seeing Allah or god or Jesús or ghosts.    I am more than happy to accept hard evidence for any of these phenomena. 

Hard evidence in those situations would be hard to come by. Over the years there's been alleged photos taken of ghosts, but getting Jesus, God or Allah to pose for a selfie with you is not likely. When it comes to the existence of those two, nobody can prove they exist and nobody can prove beyond doubt they don't. It's probably in the too hard basket.

 

Ditto with ghosts. It's possible to debunk fake video or photos, or prove something wasn't a ghost. On the other hand, if someone claims they have seen one, it's impossible to prove they haven't. Maybe in the future it will be possible to download someone's entire brain memory to check their story, but not now. If I was to say I was a hamster, there's plenty of ways to prove beyond doubt that I'm not. But if I said I'd seen a ghost or had a vision of, and conversation with God, there's no way to prove beyond doubt that I haven't.

 

To believe in aliens piloting UFO's, I'd have to be close enough to see them peering out of portholes at me. That you could believe. On the other hand, a mysterious light presents no evidence, so just remains a mysterious light.

[willedoo]

On the subject of aliens, I wonder if there's planets inhabited only by robots. Planets where AI has long ago taken over from now extinct biological beings. They might have the ability to manufacture themselves and create all the software they need. They wouldn't need oxygen.

[rgmwa]

I was driving home from work one evening a few years ago about 6:30pm heading east along the Great Eastern Highway Bypass towards the Roe Highway intersection (for those who know Perth), when I saw three large glowing spheres maybe 3m diameter in loose formation approaching me from the hills on the other side of Roe highway. There were flying in a westerly direction keeping 30-50m above the ground. It was approaching dusk at that time of the year so I couldn't see much detail to figure out what they were. They passed me on the south side of the Bypass and presumably kept going west.  I thought they might be weather balloons but why three together and keeping quite close formation?  They are the only unidentifiable UFO's I've ever seen, but I didn't even pull up to try and get a closer look.  Just thought "That's weird. I wonder what those things are?" and kept going.