Australia abandons our allies to the evil Taliban

[Jerry_Atrick]

Meanwhile, China are now exerting their influence.. Maybe the west can learn that money talks: https://www.theage.com.au/world/asia/as-the-west-reels-beijing-swoops-to-firm-up-ties-with-taliban-20210817-p58jdc.html

 

[willedoo]

7 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

Meanwhile, China are now exerting their influence.. Maybe the west can learn that money talks: https://www.theage.com.au/world/asia/as-the-west-reels-beijing-swoops-to-firm-up-ties-with-taliban-20210817-p58jdc.html

 

The reality is that China will be a more reliable partner to Afghanistan than the U.S. was. It's hard to figure out what the powers in the U.S. are thinking, and even if they are thinking. Over a period of years, it's as if they have gone out of their way to trash their reputation in the world. No wonder very few trust them anymore. The last few years have proven that the word of the U.S. means nothing. China is hot to trot to take up the void the self destructive U.S. is creating for itself.

 

Also the Russian embassy in Kabul is staying put. They say they now feel safer than before the Taliban control of Kabul. Their embassy security is now the Taliban after the Afghan police guard scarped it. The Taliban have given them assurances of safety. The Russian ambassador is quoted as saying that the embassy is working to facilitate the peace process and wants to see a civilized Afghanistan without drugs and terrorism, where human rights are observed.

 

And that's the kicker. Without drugs. Before the U.S. invasion, about 20% of the world's opium was produced in Afghanistan. The Taliban banned it's production  over twenty years ago. Nowdays, Afghanistan, under U.S. patronage has been producing 90% of the world's production. The Americans have freely admitted to helping Afghan farmers convert to poppy production, with their warped logic explaining that the financial independence keeps the farmers and villagers from Taliban influence. And guess where a lot of that heroin was going? North into Russia. The Yanks must have been cacking themselves over that one. But they're not laughing now.

 

It's one of the main reasons why Russia wanted the Yanks out and the Taliban in; to stem the tide of heroin that has been flowing into their country. The Taliban have banned terrorist organisation status in Russia, but I wouldn't be surprised if Russia soon recognises the Taliban government as China will. It's in their interests.

[Dax]

14 hours ago, willedoo said:

It's one of the main reasons why Russia wanted the Yanks out and the Taliban in; to stem the tide of heroin that has been flowing into their country.

Perfectly understandable, when you consider the USA may be the most opioid  addicted country on the planet, which makes huge profits for political corporate donors.

 

It will be interesting to see the eventualities when the Taliban don't agree with what Russia and China want to do in Afghanistan, the Russians are christians and the enemy of the islamic faction of their cult and the chinese are violently against god nutters.

 

China wants a land line to the middle east and Europe they can control and Afghanistan offers a direct link into Iran. I feel the chinese are aligning with islamists because they are the enemy of the USA and wants to use them to help bring down the USA and increase chines world control.

 

Problem is, fervent god nutters always have an excuse as to why they turn against those disagreeing with their direction. Within all their holy books, it states categorically god gives them permission to lie, deceive, cheat and kill all non believers in their factional beliefs, they don't count in gods world. We may see not to far into the future a rebellion within islamists against chinese intrusion into their countries, economically and socially.

 

Future fantasy scenario, most islamist countries align with china and Russia against the west, bringing the world to the brink of total war. Short but destructive nuclear exchange between Israel and Iran, started by Israel, Israel destroyed, Iran in chaos and ruin.

 

Then climate change and ecological collapse enters the fray, islam turns against the Chinese/Russia and conflicts become more internal than external as humanity fights to survive, by killing each other.

[kgwilson]

If the Taliban have changed as a number of media reports indicate they want to be recognised as a legitimate government with other nations and have promised not to begin a murderous round of reprisals & protect the rights of certain individuals and women as well. They still will have some pretty strict Sharia laws but they have learned something in the last 40 years of conflict.

 

The problem is, can their political side keep their terrorist side at bay. The old regime was excessively brutal with numerous public executions and torture. They need to make an example of some of their murderous lot by bringing them to account for their actions now that they have declared peace if they go on the rampage again. If they can do this, then the change will be good for Afghanistan. It will have some pretty draconian and strict laws but the level of killing should disappear. Upwards of 200,000 Ahghanis have died since the Americans invaded compared to 2,500 Americans and 1000 from other nations.

 

At the moment there is just chaos and fear. The rapid takeover is an indication that there is a resigned acceptance of the Taliban. The people are tired of 40 years of war but above all tired of foreign influence. Only time will tell if this change is for the better..

[onetrack]

The worrying part of the Taliban takeover is that it emboldens the terrorist groups who now believe they can destroy the Western infidel nations, and Afghanistan will almost certainly become a haven once again for terrorism groups plotting outrageous terrorist acts against Western nations.

The simple problem with radical Islamic terrorism, is that the funding from Saudi Arabia, Iran, Palestine, Indonesia, and other hardline Islamic nations, to the radical terrorist groups, never stops.

The Madrassas are likely to rise up and flourish again now, and the Taliban are a product of the Madrassas.

Islamic terrorism cells are small, they only need minimal resources and minimal numbers of participants, and they can wreak enormous damage in Western countries.

I wouldn't like to be a resident of London, Paris or NY from now on, we are almost certainly guaranteed to see a major upsurge in terrorism attacks, that will be deadlier than ever before, as these radicals fully exploit the weaknesses of the West.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-18/taliban-rules-afghanistan-terrorism-threat-greater-than-2001/100382876

[willedoo]

9 hours ago, Dax said:

the Russians are christians

About 70% are, most being Orthodox. Second biggest religion in the Russian Federation is Islam at 10%. Jews are in much smaller numbers. There's four times as many Muslims as Catholics in Russia. Not through migration either; it's always been that way.

 

[Old Koreelah]

13 hours ago, willedoo said:

About 70% are, most being Orthodox. Second biggest religion in the Russian Federation is Islam at 10%. Jews are in much smaller numbers. There's four times as many Muslims as Catholics in Russia. Not through migration either; it's always been that way.

 

Wot, no atheists?
The Soviet state spent six decades suppressing religion and it didn’t seem to produce as many non-believers as did freedom and prosperity In the west.

[willedoo]

19 hours ago, Old Koreelah said:

Wot, no atheists?
The Soviet state spent six decades suppressing religion and it didn’t seem to produce as many non-believers as did freedom and prosperity In the west.

15% are listed as having no religion. I guess most of them would be atheists.

[Jerry_Atrick]

 

[kgwilson]

This is some of what the US gave the Taliban. Between 2002 & 2017 the US gave the ANA $US28 billion worth of weaponry most of which is now in Taliban hands.

 

2000 armoured vehicles including many $300k Humvees

40 aircraft including blackhawks & drones. Originally they gave 208 aircraft but many were used by ANA pilots to escape, others were in maintenance or inoperative.

600,000 military weapons including M16 assault rifles

162,000 pieces of communications equipment

16,000 night vision goggles

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/planes-guns-night-vision-goggles-talibans-new-us-made-war-chest-2021-08-19/

 

"Ironically, the fact that our equipment breaks down so often is a life-saver here," said one US official

 

So as time goes by a lot of the stuff especially aircraft will be discarded as they have no means to keep it operative. I guess that is one benefit of making unreliable stuff.

 

 

[Yenn]

You forget that the supply of arms and munitions is what keeps the US economy afloat. Letting the Taliban have that equipment is good. The US army needs to replace it and also will require more to counter the strength of the Taliban.

There may also be a few large US aircraft yet to be donated. All it needs is a few backhoes to sit on the runway or even dig a few holes and the US troops will have to walk home. Look on the bright side though, our government is making sure that no Aussie planes will be there.

[willedoo]

Probably the only time I would agree with the Taliban is with these comments on re-building Afghanistan. At this stage the U.S. and the IMF have blocked Afghanistan's 7 billion in reserves. If the block is prolonged it would be a bit like kicking someone when they are down. Maybe the U.S. could learn to swallow their pride and do some good there. I doubt they're capable of it, but it would be good if they did.

 

https://www.sbs.com.au/language/english/taliban-says-australia-us-have-a-moral-obligation-to-rebuild-afghanistan

[Old Koreelah]

A bit rich when these primitive bastards bombed everything build by the foreigners, murdered health workers, destroyed schools...

[Dax]

12 hours ago, willedoo said:

Probably the only time I would agree with the Taliban is with these comments on re-building Afghanistan. At this stage the U.S. and the IMF have blocked Afghanistan's 7 billion in reserves. If the block is prolonged it would be a bit like kicking someone when they are down.

Going by the last time the taliban held power, wouldn't be giving them anything and would be doing all in my power to disrupt them. Why give money or help to those whose aim is to destroy your society and kill an opposition.

 

I'd be providing assistance to those opposed to the taliban and other terrorist organisations. Attack all their armament supplies, bases and anywhere they happen to be until the Afghan people can take over. Any money the taliban get will be used to fund terrorist attacks against other countries, last time in power they wiped out just about all the infrastructure, education facilities and enslaved the women.

 

What has happened to think they have changed their approach, when we read every day of retaliation against all they think oppose them, executions, beatings and looting. We are dealing with fervently insane god nutters, they can't be stopped until they are dead, history proves that over and over.

[Bruce Tuncks]

My emotions are siding with old k and dax, but the history of aiding Germany and Japan after ww2 supports williedoo's point.

[Bruce Tuncks]

Mind you, there is a big difference in that in Afganistan, the enemy has won. I would at least deduct the value of left-behind munitions from the 7 billion. And maybe other things, like compensation for people.  What I am saying is that I would not let the Taliban be able to decide how to spend the money.

 

[willedoo]

I think it will all come down to how many countries eventually recognise the Taliban as the government of Afghanistan. If enough western governments recognised them, then it would be hard to argue that Afghanistan's strategic reserves don't belong to the Afghan government (in that scenario, the Taliban). Although U.N. recognition means nothing these days as in the example of Venezuela's reserves. Despite the current Venezuelan government being the legal government under international law and recognized as such by the U.N., their reserves have been withheld (or plundered according to Venezuela), so no doubt the same could happen with Afghanistan. In my opinion the U.N. is a toothless tiger; it's the powerful countries that hold sway.

2 hours ago, Dax said:

Any money the taliban get will be used to fund terrorist attacks against other countries

Dax, will they do that? I was under the impression that the Taliban's acts of terrorism were all confined to their own country and cause. Please feel free to provide some facts on that subject. Not saying they haven't, just that I'm not aware of any.

[Old Koreelah]

39 minutes ago, willedoo said:

…Dax, will they do that? I was under the impression that the Taliban's acts of terrorism were all confined to their own country and cause. Please feel free to provide some facts on that subject. Not saying they haven't, just that I'm not aware of any.

Whether the Taliban support external acts of terror is unknown. Sudden victory has taken away the glue that kept this disparate collection of factions in some semblance of unity. There is little chance that a hastily-formed central administration can control thousands of zealous suddenly equipped with Humvees and advanced weapons.

 

Like most conflicts, this one attracted foreign fighters and they are the ones very likely to take some of these spoils of war home to use in their own local fights. Has America made our world safer?

[onetrack]

What does a bunch of rock apes intent on governing a country back into the 5th century, actually need? A truckload of primitive hand tools, a shipload of donkeys and camels, and they'll be right!

 

They currently have possession of mega-billions worth of high-tech armaments, including 380 aircraft of extremely high value. They can sell all that on the open market to get the money they need.

They currently have all the low-tech armament they need and can operate, in the form of AK-47's and RPG's. They're incapable of learning to operate and understand high-tech equipment.

 

They're going around shooting every pilot they can find, such is their appreciation of high-tech skills. 

[Yenn]

We went with the Yanks into this war with no idea of what we were trying to achieve, nor any idea of how to do it. We put in place a puppet Yanky government and stupidly thought that we could walk away and the Afghanis would keep to our rule book.

The only surprise is that the present government of Afghanistan have allowed the Yanks to take over the airport and get Yanks and others out.

It would be stupid to think that the Yanks are in control, or that they can control the airport. It is only the Taliban allowing the Yanks to use the airport that allows refugees to exit the country.

If the Taliban didn't want the yanks to get people out, they could stop the exodus in no time by dropping a few mortars on the runway. Those planes will not take off unless the runway is secure.

[Marty_d]

It's classic strategy - leave the enemy an escape route if you want them to go away.

 

I really feel for the Afghan people - especially women who over the last 20 years gained many freedoms, secular Afghans, students etc.  They're going to find life brutal under the Taliban.

 

But we (the Western 'we') should never have been there in the first place.

 

Let's face it there are many other countries with oppressive regimes and poor quality of life for their citizens, and we don't go invading them.

[Dax]

2 hours ago, Old Koreelah said:

Whether the Taliban support external acts of terror is unknown.

Actually the Taliban have been involved in many terrorist attacks, Al Qaeda, ISS, started in Afghanistan and were protected by the taliban, it includes suicide bombings. This article and many others sets out what the taliban is all about and it's aims, which are no different to ISS or any other muslim terrorist cell.

 

https://ctc.usma.edu/are-the-afghan-taliban-involved-in-international-terrorism-3/

[Dax]

49 minutes ago, Marty_d said:

Let's face it there are many other countries with oppressive regimes and poor quality of life for their citizens, and we don't go invading them.

It all revolves around the yahweh cult, each faction has been fighting each other for over 1000 years and they also fight within their factions, any opportunity they get to have a go at each other they do and they are all just following their mythical war gods words.

 

The invasion of Iraq and afghanistan was the stupidest thing the west could have done and that was instigated by right wing devout christian god nutter leaders, Blair, Howard and Bush, all devoted cultists.

[Old Koreelah]

2 hours ago, Dax said:

Actually the Taliban have been involved in many terrorist attacks, Al Qaeda, ISS, started in Afghanistan and were protected by the taliban, it includes suicide bombings…

I should have clarified that I meant the new Taliban government. Maybe they crave international recognition enough to give up their old ways, but I doubt it.

 

2 hours ago, Dax said:

…The invasion of Iraq and afghanistan was the stupidest thing the west could have done and that was instigated by right wing devout christian god nutter leaders, Blair, Howard and Bush, all devoted cultists.

Agreed. Did any of those leaders (and the many lackeys of the arms industry who grew rich from these wars) send their own sons to fight?

[willedoo]

3 hours ago, Dax said:

Actually the Taliban have been involved in many terrorist attacks, Al Qaeda, ISS, started in Afghanistan and were protected by the taliban, it includes suicide bombings. This article and many others sets out what the taliban is all about and it's aims, which are no different to ISS or any other muslim terrorist cell.

 

https://ctc.usma.edu/are-the-afghan-taliban-involved-in-international-terrorism-3/

Dax, it might pay to re-read that article by Anne Stenersen. It doesn't support what you are saying about the Afghan Taliban carrying out terrorist attacks in other countries. She seems to be making the point that while some of their members have made threats, the Afghan Taliban is not known to have carried out external attacks and also lack the means and will to do so.

 

Can you post links to the other many articles you mention.