School and education

[facthunter]

Jeez Dax if I  can't stand the ramblings of non open minded people my age how would the kids put up with it?  SOME exposure would be OK particularly in "CRAFTS and such skills but the kids want to die if you take their cellphones from them. Nev

[octave]

7 minutes ago, Dax said:

The current approach is ridiculous in this day and age, using people just out of school to teach the young is failing miserably.

 

I have many criticisms of the education system however I wouldn't ay i was failing miserably.  The smartest kids I have dealt with are pretty smart and well adjusted.  i would say the system doesn't serve everyone well and probably never has. 

[octave]

 

20 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Life is too short to do everything yourself.

 

This is true, we live in a complex society.   My sons three best homeschooled friends became a doctor a lawyer and an engineer. They didn't learn these skills at home but they were able to slot straight into year 12 and then university.  In the case of my son he identified what he wanted to do as a career when he was 10.  Neither of us were skilled in this area although a reelevate did have some skills.  He worked out what he would need to do and set about doing it.  He undertook some short vocational courses at 14 and then at 15 was able to convince them to admit him to a fulltime course.   Again I am not suggesting that everyone should do  this but it does illustrate that there is more than one way to succeed.    

[facthunter]

Didn't most boys want to be firemen or pilots when they were 10.?. It's hard to know enough to make a firm decision at that  age..  Exotic machinery was my big love and showed up  then as in Primary school I was awarded a book called "How it Works and How it's done"..  I think if I recall correctly. .. Nev

[old man emu]

Octave,

I've formed the opinion that your opinion of school-aged kids is biased simply because you are teaching motivated kids something difficult. You are getting the cream of the crop. How many also-rans have the motivation and discipline to learn to play an instrument and to learn to read the language that music is written in? 

[octave]

 

7 minutes ago, old man emu said:

Octave,

I've formed the opinion that your opinion of school-aged kids is biased simply because you are teaching motivated kids something difficult. You are getting the cream of the crop. How many also-rans have the motivation and discipline to learn to play an instrument and to learn to read the language that music is written in? 

 

I think there is some truth in that.  When people bag the younger generations I think they are focusing on those who are for what ever reason struggling.   Not every student of mine is gold. I do have the luxury of not having time pressure and I have found that given time and patience most can be coaxed into  learning.    For all the criticism of younger generations my most challenging students are the older adults.

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

It is easier from that point of view and you are also one on one and you know they are interested Boys often feel  hard study is for girls and easily fooled people and what was known as SWATS. In Poor areas the conditions at home are totally unsuitable too.  I could tell you some stories that  would make your hair curl. Nev

[willedoo]

11 hours ago, Old Koreelah said:

We only have our kids for a few short years, so it always amazes me how many people send theirs off to boarding school at a tender age. 

I think it's sad to see kids of primary school age in boarding school. On remote properties, in my opinion, the better option is school of the air and home schooling for little kids. I don't think it works so good for high school age, so most don't have much option but to send high school kids to boarding school. Another reason is to provide socialisation for the kids. But it's a tough gig for both parents and kids. Probably a bit better these days with the internet available for the family to stay in regular touch.

[Jerry_Atrick]

11 hours ago, Old Koreelah said:

We only have our kids for a few short years, so it always amazes me how many people send theirs off to boarding school at a tender age. 

I agree.. When I was in the private school system, there were kids from, say Mildura who boarded and I sort of get it. But there were also kids who lived not too far from the school (within 20 ks) who were boarding since they were in prep year! I could never understand that.

 

There are some kids at the school my daughter goes to that board full time (i.e. parents can only see them on Saturday arvo sports) that live closer to the school than we do (within 7 miles/11 ks). Though, at the age of 14/15/16, the kids are wanting to board rather than the parents wanting to send them off to board. Our daughter has asked, but we can't afford it at the moment. But as the schools around here have flexi-boarding, and our school includes one night a week of flexi-boarding in its fees, I think from the upcoming term (next week), she will be boarding at least one night per week.

 

 

[Fliteright]

Education is changing, always will be as the human race evolves (sometimes not for the better) so does where it all begins, at home. Back in my day as a kid dad worked mum looked after us 4 terrors, never had a granny or grandpa to look after us, never had any money to spare, mum did the lot, dad just came home & reached for his belt!:-) No techno stuff not even a TV at first just the backyard during the day to play in & bed by 7pm, any wonder i left home at 16!:-)

 

I would hate to be bringing up young kids these days, couldn't think of anything worse especially in our current 'little future climate'!!

[willedoo]

It probably won't be long before this is an old fashioned argument. Brain/computer interfacing is already being experimented with. In the future they might just fit a USB connection to your head, plug in a thumb drive and bingo!, everyone's a clever dick.

[Jerry_Atrick]

5 hours ago, Dax said:

The current approach is ridiculous in this day and age, using people just out of school to teach the young is failing miserably.

I agree, but not sure pensioners is the right way to go.. won't their ideas and experiences be based more or less on the old ways? Of course, it is a generalisation, because it would depend in the pensioner you get and how in t tune they are with the workings today (or even in their day).

 

 

[old man emu]

12 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

I agree, but not sure pensioners is the right way to go.. won't their ideas and experiences be based more or less on the old ways? Of course, it is a generalisation, because it would depend in the pensioner you get and how in t tune they are with the workings today (or even in their day).

I wouldn't say that it's a generalisation. I'd say it's closer to the truth. You have to spend a lot of time with kids to get an idea of how they see the world. Just think, the 9/11 attack happened before all our current school children were born. To them, the "Olden Days" were the 1980's and 90's. They can't imagine a world without mobile devices because in their world, mobile devices were always there.

 

Think back over your life and consider the changes. One telephone in the house fixed in one position. Do you remember the day that colour TV was first broadcast? I remember paying something like $50 for a calculator that today pales in ability to one I can buy for $10 - that's deflation in value. What happened on the 14th February 1966? Do you still compare cars by their miles per gallon?

 

If there is one thing that has been a constant in our lives, it is change. I can remember being told, way back when, that if a person couldn't handle change, then they would not be able to handle Life.

 

When you are teaching kids, or anyone for that matter, you have to see the world through their eyes and adapt your teaching to that view.

[nomadpete]

50 minutes ago, old man emu said:

When you are teaching kids, or anyone for that matter, you have to see the world through their eyes and adapt your teaching to that view.

So very true, OME. If you don't start from information that a student already has confidence in, there is no chance of leading them into new concepts.

[Dax]

30 minutes ago, old man emu said:

You have to spend a lot of time with kids to get an idea of how they see the world.

Most pensioners would have kids and grand kids, so would be fully aware and experienced with interacting with them. My own great grand kids are no different to my grand kids or kids, other than they all have phones and spend lots of time on them. All my grand kids live in rural areas, they spent most of their time out and about having fun with peers. Their phones go with them, but they get into lots of physical things just like we did, bike and horse riding, surfing, footy, dancing making things and being pests. They are always asking me questions, by ph or when I see them, which has been never in the last couple of years, I get a txt or call from them at least once a week and one insists on a signal conference as she says at the age of 4.

 

I think we have to take a different direction with education, our working society is getting smaller and smaller with the advance in technology and jobs will become scarcer.  As it is part time work is just about all that many can get. So it's important they are taught lots of physical things they can get into so they have something to look forward to in life, rather than now, all they have to look forward to is being programmed into jobs that may not exist very soon.

 

Don't know anyone in my realm of business friends who has a tertiary education, none ever finished school but all are very successful. The over educated seem to end up as economic slaves, they have no life skills or ability to think outside the square, because they have never experienced life outside a school room.

 

Same for all the pro musos I know, not one can read music or were taught their instrument, all done by feel and ear. I've played with a small orchestra in a number of stage shows, we were the pop section and had a small bracket during interval. They gave us reams of musical scores for the songs we were to do and we learn them from recordings, when it came to the show it was easy the orchestra played from the music score and we played by feel. At one practise we tried to get the orchestra into a jamm with us so they could join in, but not one of the could play without music scores, so that fell flat as they just looked confused when we told them the chords and played a few bars so they could get the feel.

 

Humans are practical beings, they are destined to work with their hands, mind and body, not sit bored to death or work in morbidly soul destroying jobs. So the elderly could introduce them to skills that they could use, whilst a trained teacher can only teach them out of a book and has no practical experience in life, other than in a school room.

[old man emu]

Dax, your descendants are lucky to be living in rural areas where they have a landscape they can move through and react with. Metropolitan areas are landscapes of cramped buildings rising into the polluted sky. Have a read of this http://skyviewcastlehill.com.au/news/sydney-castle-hill-will-add-five-high-rise-apartment-buildings (Don't take the prices as gospel - the article wasn't proofread.) There is nowhere for kids to run free, unless in rigidly designed play spaces. Everything in kids' lives is regimented. We see that now with the schools closed. Take away the regimentation and the kids immediately cry, "I'm bored." 

[pmccarthy]

 Just spoke to three of my grandchildren by video link. They are 7, 10 and 12 and camped in a tent on a mountain on their own property last night with their parents. It rained all night. They were super excited and happy, about to have porridge for breakfast. In lockdown they can play with the dog, help with sheep, and go for long daily walks. Its great.

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

my grandchildren  7, 10 and 12 and camped in a tent on a mountain on their own property 

 

My 9 year-old grandson: camped on his bed in his bedroom. Some processed, allegedly healthy cereal for breakfast. He can play using the PlayStation or his iPad. He can't see any of his mates because of COVID. His backyard is not big enough to get any sort of run-up happening. He can't make loud noise because it will annoy the neighbours. There's no dirt to play in; no sticks or stones to throw.

 

Your grandkids might not have Maccas frequently, or sushi, or Thai, or kebabs, but at least they know what it's like to see their blood and not give a damn. They know what it's like to lift  rock and see what lives under it. They know how it feels when you tread on an eel while wading in a creek.

[Old Koreelah]

I really feel for these feedlot kids; what many of them are experiencing is verging on cruel and unnatural punishment.  

Each day our grandies video call their cousins, who are stuck in a Sydney tower block, with only screens to keep them sane.

 

Our lot are lucky enough to have a backyard big enough to run around in.

They can’t wait to come to our place (the Rock House) and explore the paddock, have driving lessons, go camping, gather kindling and start a fire.

 

Those cousins may be city kids, but they have enough nous to restore my faith in kids. When they visited our place years ago, the 6 year old boy spied our old, abandoned laundry trolley in the long grass. Within a few minutes he had folded it up and the kids were riding his makeship billy cart down the steep hill!

 

[Dax]

3 hours ago, old man emu said:

Metropolitan areas are landscapes of cramped buildings rising into the polluted sky.

Sadly that's true and it's a product of the economic growth ideology, which should be the profit growth mantra. Schools are purely for turning out economic clones, when they should be about life education and team work. City cotton wool kids are pretty useless at just about anything of use to their future, mobile phone is useless for their future in the reality if things.

 

Where I live there are many city folk who have holiday homes in the area and when they come down here for holidays, you can tell who are locals and who are city kids. Local kids are out in boats, bikes, the skate board track, playing on the beach and going on adventures together. City kids wander round the local shops with their phones to their heads and don't even talk to each other, they communicate through their phones, even when they are standing close by.

 

This to me is not a good sign for the future, soon we will have a number of generations incapable of doing anything but using a ph, or slaving in a part time job. Of course there are exemptions to that in cities and the bush, but local kids always talk to you and wave when you go past them. If you said hello to a school kid in a city, they'd freak out, no different to trying to talk to city people, they turn away or look scared to death.

[red750]

[octave]

Gold Coast 9yo Allegra Clarke accepted to study physics at university

[old man emu]

Thursday 21/10/21

One more day to go! No more getting up early to see what Anti-vaxxer, environmentalist, pie-in-the-sky good-gooder crap I'll have to wade through before I get to the Basic 3Rs so that my grandson will be able to do more than fill in a dole application form when he leaves school. At least he doesn't go to a church school, so all I have to do is teach him to act ethically because that's the best way he will be able to serve his community.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I read and believe that if you have a good kid who wants to do well in university entrance, such as get into medicine, then they will do better if home schooled.

Real schools waste way too much time on non-learning things.

In my case, the local state school was so bad that we ( atheists ) helped start an anglican school to get away from the state system.

[Bruce Tuncks]

One day I asked Zaccy how was his school day and what did he learn...  "nothing grandpa"  zaccy said "seb was being naughty today"