God help America

[willedoo]

Most of the police are really good with the inspections. I've heard of only very rare cases of a half smart police officer going out of his way to give someone a hard time. And those are usually the well balanced type, ie: a chip on both shoulders, and should be in some other form of employment. Usually, the police officers are just there to do their job - check that the owner is complying with the storage requirements. If they really wanted to, and if they had a detailed knowledge of the regulations (which most don't) they could go out of their way to nit pick, but very few are like that.

[old man emu]

Willedo is totally correct in what he has said. It's a long time since I was in the Job, but I recall that the big push for inspections came after the buy-back. We were given a list of registered firearms owners and told to inspect. What with dealing with Domestics (No. 1 priority, or the Domestic Violence Officer - female of course - would charge out of her hidey-hole and rip you nuts off), and break-ins, shoppies and dead 'uns, pissies and paperwork, inspecting gun safes was way down on the list of priorities, especially if there was only one GD car crew working. It would be an insult to have anyone other than GDs doing this stuff.

 

In the end, you were simply talking to the converted. The only way you got names for the list is because the person obeyed the law and registered firearms. Where I worked, the Rebels were the local OLMG. Dog knows how many firearms they had, but since they were not registered, they didn't stand a chance of the Police popping in for a chat and a look.

[willedoo]

I think when a lot of police officers do an inspection, if it's obviously a law abiding, long term sporting shooter involved, the officer is quite happy to do the inspection and have a quick yarn about the guns just out of interest. Often the only time they get to see such variety of firearms is when they do inspections or are sharing range facilities with a civilian match going on at the same time.

 

A lot of them mention that police resources and paperwork doesn't allow them to do the amount of practice that they'd like to do. A sporting shooter might shoot more rounds in one match than a police officer will in a year. Hence the old joke - if you're running away from a copper shooting at you, run straight, less chance of being hit. All jokes aside, they should do more practice, but funds and time doesn't allow it.

[old man emu]

It wasn't until about 2000 that NSW Police introduced annual firearms certification training. I did one or two sessions back in the 80s, but nothing much during the 90s. Bac in the 80s, the Weapons instructors would stand upwind of the firing line when the applicants first fired using the rounds they already had loaded. That was so the instructors would not be smothered with dust and cobwebs coming out of the revolvers.

 

The syllabus for the training session was comprehensive, covering various safety aspects of using the weapon, and simulations. But those situations on the range used static positions on the firing line and static targets at various distances. After 2000, Weapons Training included active simulations in darkened rooms using "paint ball " bullets against an instructor wearing full protective clothing. It was an improvement, but like all training scenarios, you went in expecting the unexpected. Not at all like life on the street. However, better than the years of no revision sessions at all.

 

I thin that there has been a failure in instilling in police the idea of Escalation of Force, which is Talk, Hands on, Baton, Deadly Force. Ever since police were issued with "Pepper" spray and Tasers, the use of higher levels of Force have increased. It seems the police are too quick to spray or Taser. Perhaps it all comes back to a failure of Police to understand "Hurry up and wait" and apply it. What's wrong with taking up a position of safety and talking a person into surrendering? For one, the constable is still getting paid, and will be relieved when replaced at the end of the shift. Much better to be sitting out a few hours and coming away with an uninjured prisoner than spending weeks and weeks being interviewed by Internal Affairs, then facing the Coroner over a death in custody. Not to mention having your name and reputation dragged through the mud by the Media.

 

Why are police so quick to use the higher levels of force? I think it's because the failure of Command to pull people from behind desks collecting statistics and put them on the street. That means that there are not enough people to handle the day-to-day policing tasks, and all the time the list of calls for service is growing during the shift. Police become time-poor and the junior police live in fear of supervisors who are demanding to now why calls are not being dealt with. I am amazed when watching English detective shows on TV. One dead body and a regiment of uniformed police milling around, seemingly doing nothing. I wonder who is handling the domestics and noise complaints back in town while all these uniforms are doing nothing to progress the murder investigation.

 

Another factor I see is that back in the 90s they pushed too many through the Academy and did not have enough experienced police to instil the skills necessary to deal with people acting abnormally. Those newly attested police of the 90s spread their ignorance to those of the naughties and beyond - a self-perpetuating situation.  There is also the deterioration in the respect the younger members of society have for themselves and for others. With young people, intoxication by drugs and alcohol is, I think, more severe that it was when I was on the street at the turn of the 21st Century. Along with the insidious influence of American culture, stimulant drugs and the inhibiting effects of alcohol have increased the likelihood of aggression within the same age group and against those trying to protect the aggressor and the public.

 

I would discount the violence of gang warfare in this. The local GD crew would only be involved in cleaning up the aftermath of an incident, never dealing directly with the offenders. Besides, gang warfare conducted properly does not involve the Public. It never has, and never will.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

My father was a bank manager and he had to take all his staff including junior girls on the shooting range each year. They had revolvers in holsters fastened under the front counter

[old man emu]

7 minutes ago, pmccarthy said:

They had revolvers in holsters fastened under the front counter

Where they remained 364 days a year until taken out for the annual shoot.

[red750]

Back in the mid to late 60's, I was a bank teller. In those days, tellers were equipped with a Browning 25 or 32 pistol under the counter. When we travelled to an agency (a small part-time branch with no permanent staff), we carried the pistol in our pocket. When working in a country branch there was an occasion where we needed extra cash to meet customer requirements, so we took a bank cheque to another bank to collect the cash. I recall walking down the street with the .25 in my pocket.

 

I attended one training session in the shooting range located in the basement of head office in Melbourne when I worked in a suburban branch. That's all the training I can remember.

 

It used to be said that the .25 had just enough power to push the bullet out of the barrel, whereupon it would probably drop on your toe.

 

[spacesailor]

NOW A reality check of Gun Inspetion !.

Two officers in squad car arrive at property, ( ALL good & phoned ahead  ).

BUT

Son in law at work, wife Called out to help POLICE recover " autocide victim ", who had smashed his car at full speed into a tree. ( SES VOLLuNTEER ).

SO

Inspector ignores gate sign & drives in property without shutting gate.

ONLY

To find no responce from house & dogs loose protecting their turf.

Out go the boys in blue, red faced & upset by a wasted day !.

S I  L returns home to find his horses & dogs missing ! The ' dog catcher ' ( animal control ) chasing his horses & dogs at Maccas.  The wife covered in blood from her ' victim extraction ', with differant police.

At THE SAME MACCES AS DOG CATCHER , HORSES ,  & DOGS .

And WHO ROLLS UP.

The bloody dildoes who started this FUN.

a right ' comedy - drama ' That should have been a movie.

The reason All at maccas. The daughter rides horse to maccas, with dogs on leash. 

Through drive through

spacesailor

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by spacesailor
Post script

[willedoo]

5 hours ago, old man emu said:

It wasn't until about 2000 that NSW Police introduced annual firearms certification training. I did one or two sessions back in the 80s, but nothing much during the 90s. Bac in the 80s, the Weapons instructors would stand upwind of the firing line when the applicants first fired using the rounds they already had loaded. That was so the instructors would not be smothered with dust and cobwebs coming out of the revolvers.

 

The syllabus for the training session was comprehensive, covering various safety aspects of using the weapon, and simulations. But those situations on the range used static positions on the firing line and static targets at various distances. After 2000, Weapons Training included active simulations in darkened rooms using "paint ball " bullets against an instructor wearing full protective clothing. It was an improvement, but like all training scenarios, you went in expecting the unexpected. Not at all like life on the street. However, better than the years of no revision sessions at all.

 

I thin that there has been a failure in instilling in police the idea of Escalation of Force, which is Talk, Hands on, Baton, Deadly Force. Ever since police were issued with "Pepper" spray and Tasers, the use of higher levels of Force have increased. It seems the police are too quick to spray or Taser. Perhaps it all comes back to a failure of Police to understand "Hurry up and wait" and apply it. What's wrong with taking up a position of safety and talking a person into surrendering? For one, the constable is still getting paid, and will be relieved when replaced at the end of the shift. Much better to be sitting out a few hours and coming away with an uninjured prisoner than spending weeks and weeks being interviewed by Internal Affairs, then facing the Coroner over a death in custody. Not to mention having your name and reputation dragged through the mud by the Media.

 

Why are police so quick to use the higher levels of force? I think it's because the failure of Command to pull people from behind desks collecting statistics and put them on the street. That means that there are not enough people to handle the day-to-day policing tasks, and all the time the list of calls for service is growing during the shift. Police become time-poor and the junior police live in fear of supervisors who are demanding to now why calls are not being dealt with. I am amazed when watching English detective shows on TV. One dead body and a regiment of uniformed police milling around, seemingly doing nothing. I wonder who is handling the domestics and noise complaints back in town while all these uniforms are doing nothing to progress the murder investigation.

 

Another factor I see is that back in the 90s they pushed too many through the Academy and did not have enough experienced police to instil the skills necessary to deal with people acting abnormally. Those newly attested police of the 90s spread their ignorance to those of the naughties and beyond - a self-perpetuating situation.  There is also the deterioration in the respect the younger members of society have for themselves and for others. With young people, intoxication by drugs and alcohol is, I think, more severe that it was when I was on the street at the turn of the 21st Century. Along with the insidious influence of American culture, stimulant drugs and the inhibiting effects of alcohol have increased the likelihood of aggression within the same age group and against those trying to protect the aggressor and the public.

 

I would discount the violence of gang warfare in this. The local GD crew would only be involved in cleaning up the aftermath of an incident, never dealing directly with the offenders. Besides, gang warfare conducted properly does not involve the Public. It never has, and never will.

 

 

ome, you'd undoubtedly be familiar with this. I remember when the police converted to the Glocks, they had a lot of safety problems. Some incidents of officers shooting themselves in the leg when drawing it from the holster. Correct me if I'm wrong, but was it the S&W revolver they used to have before the Glocks?

 

I remember reading some history of American air crew sidearms. During the Vietnam War era, the standard issue to air crew was the S&W Victory model revolver in .38 Special calibre. Some USAF crew opted for more firepower if they had to bail out, so privately obtained 1911 Colts in .45 Auto. But most Navy air crew stuck with the Victory revolver. Reasons were safety, and if they were in the water with one injured arm, they could still use the revolver. With the Colt auto, they would need two hands to cock it, or the other alternative was to have it cocked and locked in the cockpit. A lot didn't like the idea of ejecting with all those G forces with a cocked, loaded semi auto pistol.

 

Navy pilots often loaded tracer rounds in the S&W revolver. If they were in the water at night, they would wait until the rescue helicopter turned in their direction, then fire the revolver using it like a flare gun.

[old man emu]

Yes, the issued hand gun before the Glock was the S&W .38 Police Special.  I found it too small for me to get a firm handgrip. I didn't buy my own grips to solve that. It was a slow thing to reload using ammo strips

since the Police Force wasn't going to shelve out for speed loaders

 

I loved the Glock. I shot better with it because I could get a good grip on it. Shooting yourself in the foot could be done with the S&W and Glock. That is due to putting your finger onto the trigger whilst drawing. The problem is simply bad technique which can be eliminated by practice. Unfortunately, since Australians, including their police, are not gun crazy, there was little incentive to practice drawing other than at certification shoots. Besides, with being overworked (in urban stations) you didn't have time to be hanging around in the firearms locker. It was a case of get your pistol and get out on the road.

[willedoo]

8 minutes ago, old man emu said:

Shooting yourself in the foot could be done with the S&W and Glock. That is due to putting your finger onto the trigger whilst drawing.

Yes, I forgot the S&W is double action, not single action like John Wayne's. I would have thought the trigger pull was too heavy for an accidental discharge, but maybe not.

[Yenn]

It seems the police had more firearms training than we had in the army in Britain in the fifties. We used to get about ten round through a .303 in a year, or if in a bren group we may get thirty. I shot every week because I was in the rifle team, but that was eight of us in a camp of 300.

[old man emu]

There is one way to correctly discharge a firearm, and a thousand incorrect ways. Probability says that if there are more wrong ways to do something than the right ways, even trained people will do the wrong thing sometime. It's all a result of the application of Sod's Law, not the watered down Yankee, Murphy's Law.

 

Sod's Law states: "if something can go wrong, it will". According to David J. Hand, emeritus professor of mathematics and senior research investigator at Imperial College London, Sod's law is a more extreme version of Murphy's law. While Murphy's law says that anything that can go wrong, will go wrong (eventually), Sod's law requires that it always go wrong with the worst possible outcome. Finagle's law follows from Sod's Law,  "Anything that can go wrong, will—at the worst possible moment."

[onetrack]

The biggest single reason for the number of police shootings today, is people on drugs producing large knives or machetes and heading straight for a police officer.

They're told that someone on drugs with a large knife, is a greater danger than someone with a firearm, who stands a larger chance of missing you, as compared to a direct personal attack with a bladed instrument.

I've even had martial arts experts tell me that if someone produces a large knife and lunges at you, it's time to run.

[willedoo]

Practice takes care of the mechanical side of shooting. It enables efficiency, familiarity and speed of use in handling. As far as accuracy goes, practice can be useful but the most important thing is to strictly adhere to the two basic rules of shooting - focus on the front sight and gently squeeze the trigger. The wrong way is to focus on the target and pull the trigger. Developing that soft touch cures a lot of bad habits, like snatching the trigger, anticipation of recoil etc..

 

The hard part for those in the police or military is to be able to do that under stress.

[willedoo]

7 minutes ago, onetrack said:

The biggest single reason for the number of police shootings today, is people on drugs producing large knives or machetes and heading straight for a police officer.

They're told that someone on drugs with a large knife, is a greater danger than someone with a firearm, who stands a larger chance of missing you, as compared to a direct personal attack with a bladed instrument.

I've even had martial arts experts tell me that if someone produces a large knife and lunges at you, it's time to run.

From what you hear, ice is one of the biggest problems. I was talking to a policeman about it one day and what he told me was pretty scary.

[onetrack]

When on ice, they don't sleep for days, become hyperactive and enormously destructive as they believe unknown forces are after them.

The stepdaughter rented her house to a woman while she was away on shift for 3-4 weeks, and didn't know she had an ice-addicted son who came to stay with her. The stepdaughter hadn't approved anyone else to stay at the house.

 

The druggie stole her Subaru Outback, used it for 2 weeks, and absolutely trashed it, ripping out all the interior looking for the demons that were after him.

He tore the glovebox and console apart, ripped out the headlining, tore the seats up. All the while he was driving around with the original number plates on the car.

He only got caught when he ran into the back of an unmarked police car stopped at traffic lights, and the officers got suspicious and found a firearm in the console.

The car was a complete write-off, and then she had hells own delight trying to get the insurance to pay out, as they claimed she must have engineered the car theft, by leaving the keys lying around for the druggie to find.

It seems they ignored the evidence that the druggie was not authorised to stay in the house.

[willedoo]

The police officer I talked to said they could be totally unpredictable. He said you never know when they might suddenly take a lunge at you. Another thing was unnatural strength when they are going off. He said it could take a few policemen to hold down one ice addict of very average build.

[old man emu]

Oh for the Good Old Days when druggies were on opiates or cannabis. It's not hard to deal with someone who is really happy or just about asleep.

[spacesailor]

When I Was a child !.

The Dr,s & nurses injected me with ' opiates ' to stop my Screaming.  I had weird dreams then, but no pain & could sleep soundly for at least a couple of DAYS.

It was " chloroform " in the operating room.  ( onto the Old covid type mask  )

spacesailor

Edited August 5, 2022 by spacesailor
More added

[Jerry_Atrick]

[red750]

Downtown Seattle.

 

[facthunter]

He said he was going to Gaol Hillary.   He's also going to wipe North Korea and Iran off the face of the earth. THAT should gain him some votes in the deep south..   Nev

[red750]

How's this for conflict of interest?

 

From Yahoo News:

 

Andrew Feinberg
Tue, 6 September 2022 at 2:55 am
A Florida federal judge named to the bench by Donald Trump has barred the Department of Justice from using the thousands of government-owned documents seized during the 8 August search of his property to further an ongoing criminal investigation into the ex-president.

 

The Monday order by US District Judge Aileen Cannon blocks — temporarily — the federal government’s law enforcement apparatus from acting on which most legal experts say is overwhelming evidence that Mr Trump violated several federal laws laying out criminal penalties for mishandling national defence information and obstructing justice.

 

The government will not be able to use any evidence seized at Mr Trump’s Mar-a-Lago residence until a third-party special master determines whether each item seized may be shielded by attorney client or executive privilege, even though Mr Trump is no longer president and cannot shield records from the executive branch. 

[facthunter]

EVERYTHING in the US is crooked except TRUMP. Yeah right.  Don't cover for him and HE'll go after you. What a great situation. Nev