Anti-vaxxers are the 21st Century Luddites

[old man emu]

A Luddite is now a blanket term used to describe people who dislike new technology, but its origins date back to an early 19th-century labour movement that railed against the ways that mechanized manufactures and their unskilled laborers undermined the skilled craftsmen of the day.  Depending upon who you ask, the word “Luddite” is either a snide insult for an anti-technologist, or a mantle worn with rebellious pride. Those who rebel against the medical technology of vaccination, anti-vaxxers, are said to be the descendants of the Luddite movement.

 

But that is an insult to the memory and motivation of the original Luddites. All those people did was react to the changes in society brought about by the mechanisation of traditionally manual manufacturing. There was a degree of truth forming the basis of their actions. The skilled spinners and weavers were losing their employment to machines which did not require the degree of training and skill to maintain in operation that manual spinning wheels and looms did. Anti-vaxxers are reacting in ignorance of the boon that vaccination has been to Mankind since Edward Jenner, in 1796,  showed that causing people to get Cow Pox, prevented them from getting Small Pox .

 

Smallpox was a dangerous disease. In Jenner's time, smallpox killed about 10% of the population, rising to 20% in towns and cities where infection spread more easily. Jenner's discovery was a huge medical breakthrough. His work is said to have saved more lives than the work of any other human! In 1980, the World Health Organisation declared smallpox an eliminated disease.

 

Following from this many other diseases have had their spread reduced significantly by vaccination. Diseases for which vaccinations form part of the NHMRC Standard Vaccination Schedule include

diphtheria

tetanus

pertussis (whooping cough)

poliomyelitis (polio)

measles

mumps

rubella

haemophilus influenzae type b infections

hepatitis B

influenza

pneumococcal infections

Other diseases where a risk may arise for a particular person or group of people in specific situations:

cholera

hepatitis A

meningococcal disease

plague

rabies

bat lyssavirus

yellow fever

Japanese encephalitis

Q fever

tuberculosis

typhoid

varicella-zoster (chickenpox)

 

Vaccines for the majority of these diseases were developed  and proved effective long before the invention of the Internet and its pervasion into our lives. Since the benefits of vaccination have been known for two and a quarter centuries, why is it now that these anti-vaxxers, mostly uneducated in the medical sciences, have suddenly become the prophets of Doom in relation to what the rest of us have learned works?

 

[red750]

One reads almost daily about people convinced by social media not to vaccinate who the suffer the virus and express their deep regret on their deathbed.

 

https://au.yahoo.com/news/anti-vaxxer-mums-haunting-last-words-before-dying-of-covid-093300004.html

[Old Koreelah]

2 hours ago, old man emu said:

…why is it now that these anti-vaxxers, mostly uneducated in the medical sciences, have suddenly become the prophets of Doom in relation to what the rest of us have learned works?

A pox on all their houses!

[Dax]

I understand the fear these people have, not that I agree with them. They seem to see it as a slow move to a totalitarian world regime and that to them it looks like a police state. We know that's not the case, hopefully, but it could look that way to some, because there is very little freedom for the majority. Then we have the fact they could have solved it long ago with very little disruption to society and what was to put all quarantine facilitates outside CBD's, you can't get a better starting point for viral distribution than in the heart of major CBD's and using totally untrained security staff. 

 

Off course that's no reason to not become vaccinated, people are dying and people are being long term effected. The politically correct culture has created the self righteous woke cancel culture, what's next is anyone's guess, but it will be interesting.

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, Dax said:

woke cancel culture,

Dax, pardon my ignorance, but in those immortal words, "Please ex plain."

 

1 hour ago, Dax said:

I understand the fear these people have

But what is the source of this fear? I concede that out of all the millions of people who have received vaccinations of all sorts, a few have suffered adverse effects to varying degrees - even unto death. But isn't that simply to be expected as a natural result of genetic variation in a massively large population?  For some people their very conception set them on the path to adverse physical and physiological effects. Are anti-vaxxers also against conception for that reason?

 

In my opinion, the fear mongers are the ignorant citizens of the good ol' USA who believe that no one has the right to tell them to do this, don't do that. And to support that belief, they clutch at anything in the media or on the Internet that is in tune with their philosophy. The funny thing is that while they hold the view, "If I can't see it with my own eyes, I don't believe it", a great many of them believe in an invisible, uncommunicative being whom they believe dictates Right and Wrong, and that those dictates are contained in the historiographic, theological anthology known as the Bible, and more especially that part called the Old Testament. The Old Testament was supposedly replaced by a new covenant which is called the New Testament

[facthunter]

There never was  a time when someone would not take it upon them selves to harm  and enslave you . In the wild allcreatures have natural enemies except a few like crocadiles. Survival rate of turtles for example. Most little things are some other creatures breakfast. USA capital has dominated the world and USA want s to keep it that way. it's a dog eat dog system without Trade Practices rules to tame it it's a monopoly where winner takes ALL as Money makes money. That's why they are batshit crazy about any social system where people get rights to things like a minimum wage social health care  etc. USA started the League of Nations.

  What TRIBE worthy of the name doesn't care for it's defenceless  and weak.  Some countries don't pay their soldiers so they rape and pillage their way across the land. IF you wait till a profit can be made before anything is done it would be a place not fit to live in... Thatcher denied the existence of "SOCIETY". I can't quite conceive where that goes but when she died she was LOATHED by many  The idea was to transfer wealth from the not well off to the already wealthy and that's still happening  ALL throughout the World today..  The Powerful will always arrange it because they CAN. and it re enforces their Power.  A "Great Deal" if you are in on it, but the IN group gets smaller and much more wealthy and lives in a parallel universe of opulence and excess..  IF you mention this you are indulging in "The Politics of Envy "  so just cop it and don't dare complain  "WE" know where YOU live  anyhow. Nev 

Edited October 5, 2021 by facthunter

[spacesailor]

Just like France ,.

" EAT CAKE " said the king to the starving peasants.

THEN the Revolution.

spacesailor

[onetrack]

Spacey, it was supposed to be Queen Marie-Antoinette who uttered those oft-repeated words, "Let them eat cake". But amongst the mists of history, and recorded history in particular, it cannot be ascertained with any certainty, that those exact words were actually uttered by Marie-Antoinette.

However, I have little doubt the general expression has been used numerous times, in disdain of the lower classes, by those in powerful and wealthy positions, where they are insulated from the reality of everyday life for the poor.

 

https://www.history.com/news/did-marie-antoinette-really-say-let-them-eat-cake

[onetrack]

There is a lingering distrust of Govt and people in authority in America that we really can't grasp properly from our position here. The simple fact remains that numerous Govts, authorities and leaders in the U.S., have regularly lied to the people of U.S., over many many decades, and the result is general distrust of authority in the U.S. 

I think this attitude is coupled with a population that consists of a large percentage of people with German heritage, who left Europe because they disdained authority there - as well as having an enduring love of firearms, which gives you final authority.

 

In addition, there have been many medicines in America that have been poorly tested and widely used, without explicit information from manufacturers as to their potential side effects. Quite a number of these side effects have been severe.

Then there's the Cutter Incident where the first polio vaccine was issued without stringent checks, and those who received the vaccine from Cutter Laboratories became extremely sick, became paralysed and even died.

In fact, all five companies that produced the Salk (polio) vaccine in 1955 - Eli Lilly, Parke-Davis, Wyeth, Pitman-Moore, and Cutter - had difficulty completely inactivating the polio virus.

 

All this means a strong lingering concern that what people are being told by the Govt and Health authorities, is not the full truth - and there are memories of the Cutter Incident - and there are concerns that even with todays more stringent lab work, that there still may be inactivated viruses in these new vaccines - that have been "rushed" onto the market.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutter_Laboratories

 

[octave]

13 minutes ago, onetrack said:

and there are concerns that even with todays more stringent lab work, that there still may be inactivated viruses in these new vaccines - that have been "rushed" onto the market.

 

The mRNA vaccines do not contain any inactivated virus. mRNA vaccines have been in development since 1989 and the first clinical trial of mRNA  to treat cancer was in 2001.       When people say the vaccine development was rushed I now ask them if they can explain to me which testing phases were missed out?   The logic of at least some of the vaccine doubters seems to be around anxiety about the safety of the vaccine.    The immediate safety is reasonably well understood.   We are now up to 6.34 Billion doses with 2,6 Billion people fully vaccinated.     

 

In terms of long term safety, long term effects can happen but are extremely rare.    What we do know is that side effects from contracting covid are very real and in some cases extremely debilitating.   It seems that it is unlikely that we will totally eliminate covid therefore it is likely that most of the population will contract it eventfully.  It is a question of weighing up the the known short term side effects which because of the huge number of vaccines given we can quantify plus the small chance of long term side effects although mRNA does have a reasonably long and safe history, against  contracting covid which we know comes with the possibility of serious illness and possibly death and unlike the vaccine we know that for some the covid virus brings long covid with all sorts of long term side effects. 

 

I often wonder at what point these antivaxxers will consider that the vaccine has been around long enough to satisfy them of its safety and efficacy.   There are more sources of information than the government.    You can read peer reviewed papers, you can talk to your doctor.  The notion that the government can be dishonest is reasonable but we seem to be in an age where people think we cant  trust everything the government or scientists tell us therefore we can believe nothing and rather than doing our homework we just substitute any information from any old source that fits with our preconceived notions.

 

 

 

 

[Dax]

11 hours ago, old man emu said:

Dax, pardon my ignorance, but in those immortal words, "Please ex plain."

The woke cancel culture is one which wants to remove every reference to the past they don't accept today and demand a morality they themselves are not prepared to adhere to, which to me is self centered self righteousness, or self entitlement without the knowledge and experience. That's my interpretation, which is dividing the sexes world wide and we see those results daily. It's also a sign of the collapse of human society into a war of attrition and the final days of life as we know it.

 

11 hours ago, old man emu said:

In my opinion, the fear mongers are the ignorant citizens of the good ol' USA who believe that no one has the right to tell them to do this, don't do that. And to support that belief, they clutch at anything in the media or on the Internet that is in tune with their philosophy.

That goes for many in every developed society today, not just the USA and it's mostly the young who are in this deep denial of their own reality.

 

11 hours ago, old man emu said:

Right and Wrong, and that those dictates are contained in the historiographic, theological anthology known as the Bible, and more especially that part called the Old Testament. The Old Testament was supposedly replaced by a new covenant which is called the New Testament

You've got to be kidding, the OT is nothing but despotic abuse, war, genocide, incest, murder and invasion all in the name of yahweh. There's nothing moralistic or true in any of it and as for the NT, not much different, just the use of one character as the supposed whipping boy for the expression of violence, who by the way never existed. There has never been one historical time where religion has shown any form of compassion, or supposed moral fortitude, it's all power and control and it's the major reason for the sociological condition of humanity today, sick.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Dax

[old man emu]

There are some gems in the mullock heap of the Old Testament, but it is true that a lot of it is a tribal history, and it can be said that documented human history is mostly the story of violence and control over others.

 

It has been shown by the study of the records of other ancient societies that Genesis is a rehash of much earlier Sumerian creation stories. From about 1600 BC the content is the story of the Hebrew people and their struggles to establish their own kingdom.

 

The odd thing about Mankind is that, although ancient peoples were isolated by distance and geography, every one of them has some sort of Creation story as the basis of their belief system.

 

[Old Koreelah]

 

Back to anti-vaxers; there must be something in the water:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/oct/05/lindsey-graham-booed-covid-vaccine-republicans

[Dax]

22 minutes ago, old man emu said:

The odd thing about Mankind is that, although ancient peoples were isolated by distance and geography, every one of them has some sort of Creation story as the basis of their belief system.

That's true, but until ideology was bred into humanity, creation stories revolved around nature, which is closer to the facts than a mythical god of war trying to be classed as peaceful and loving whilst the world is inundated with religious conflict and suppression. Then humanity mutated a gene via their changing diets into an ideological gene, which threw reality out the window and replaced it with fantasy land belief systems and that continues today much more dramatically.

 

As the human diet has become more and more denatured and heavily polluted with chemicals, that ideological gene has developed to the point where fantasy is the norm and reality is abnormal in the eyes and minds of ideological humanity. Anti-vaxxers only know one life style, junk food and the mirror in their heads reflecting only their views. They are incapable of discerning anything beyond their chemical induced fear. To boil it down, anti-vaxxers are the forefront of the denialist era and their chemically deluded brains can't cope with the reality that is unwinding their ideological viewpoint.

 

I doubt very few are willing or even capable of accepting what is happening around the planet, of course they say they do. But the facts are if people actually accepted what is happening and put it all together, they would change dramatically, but their ideological programming is so strong, reality when it hits them, its to far down the track for it to be of help. That's why so many anti-vaxxers on their death bed finally accept reality as they die and it makes no difference whatsoever to their outcome.

 

It's only going to get worse, I've seen it growing in the attitudes of people in our venues, you can put as many wholesome natural tasty foods on the menu as you want, for those with health problems which 99% are lifestyle and diet related. But they will still buy the deep fried dairy and chemically saturated meals, their ideological programming refuses to accept that its the reality of their approach to life that is killing them and not something outside their control as they claim.

 

 

[facthunter]

The misinformation is a large part of it. Its universal and cleverly contrived and many fall for the values advocated. Unfortunately that's the bulk of the direction our tribe gets..  We like quick fixes. We have a short attention span these days. BIG Houses lots of Cars Alcohol and Gambling . That's what we spend most of our money on  How could THAT be the meaning of life. We Ourselves, are the biggest pandemic and our consumption ruins the world. Nev

[onetrack]

Todays advertising and marketing pressure is what drives the population constantly towards self-interest, self-indulgence, and repeated purchasing of products that are useless or no good for them.

This kind of constant and unrelenting psychological pressure did not exist 120 years ago. Global corporations treat people simply as cows to be constantly milked. Advertising constantly tells us to be selfish - "Get this, before your friends do".

Car ads display glitz and lifestyle and action that is almost always totally unrelated and unachievable as regards the particular vehicle and only increases feeling of envy and inadequacy.

Big corporations follow us constantly, even tracking how long we stare at shelves in supermarkets, and at what level in the shelf. They track our buying patterns, they track what we watch and look at, on computers, and in regard to videos and movies.

Companies lie about what is in their highly processed foods, because they specialise in manipulating laws and regulations that might impact their large profits. They colour processed food to make it more attractive.

They add chemicals that are not actually foods, to make the product "taste better". The added chemicals are largely chemicals such as various sugars, that encourage the eater to crave the product constantly.

Corporate deceit is overwhelmingly the main driver of our economies. Corporations lie to the general public 10 times as much as they tell the truth. It's all about "promoting their name and image", and woe betide anyone who tries to tarnish that carefully-nurtured image - or their massive profits. 

[Old Koreelah]

Maybe, in the broad sweep of history, anti-vaxers will be seen as true environmentalists:

willing to submit to the natural process of evolution and receive The Darwin Award.

[old man emu]

10 minutes ago, onetrack said:

Corporate deceit is overwhelmingly the main driver of our economies

What is your opinion of where this mentality of Corporations was created. I know that Corporations, Like the East India Company, the Hudson's Bay Company of the British, as well as similar organisations of Dutch, and Portuguese origin existed before 1800, but I really think that tis mentality developed in the USA from the middle of the 19th Century with the oil, steel and railroad empires, and the manufacturing and service industries.

 

There's a saying in America, "nothing happens until something gets sold". That is the seed of truth from which this Corporate mentality grows.

 

https://www.smartcompany.com.au/marketing/sales/selling-better-12-insights-21st-century/

[onetrack]

OME, I don't really know exactly where this mentality of constant corporate deceit originated from, but it gained massive traction in the latter half of the 20th century, where "Corporate Training" appears to have been developed into an art form.

That "Corporate Training" seemed to be completely devoid of ethics and morals, and compassion for one's fellow man - it was centred on greed, massive profits, and more greed.

"Corporate rorts" became a standardised phrase, as corporate scams were constantly exposed - ranging from disobeyance of even basic laws surrounding safety and environmental considerations, right through to reducing workers rights and entitlements and ensuring that executives always received ever-larger salary increases and bonuses, while everyday employees got a pittance.

Then there's the sharemarket scams, the shareholder ripoffs, untrammelled bank greed to the point of ripping off dead people. The corporate behaviour since WW2 is disgusting and inexcusable, and there is rarely any major punishment, because "that would affect employment figures". The nations wealth is being plundered by the wealthy elite - and in reality, we are rapidly returning to the age of robber barons and serfs.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6217607/Royal-commissioner-Kenneth-Hayne-slams-banks-charging-dead-dishonest.html

[onetrack]

The global internet giants are now leading the way in deceit and greed, and manipulation, and tax evasion, they're starting to make the banks look good. I think the problem is always that the corporations constantly find new and financially rewarding areas and ground where there is no legislation or control, and governments are too slow to realise what is happening, and to institute laws and regulations to protect people, and to promote a level playing field.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-06/facebook-whistleblower-frances-haugen-testifies/100516542

[nomadpete]

3 hours ago, onetrack said:

we are rapidly returning to the age of robber barons and serfs.

No, I don't think we are returning to that age. We never left it. What changed was the way it's done. And when "there's one born every minute" was said, back at the start of the industrial revolution, now we have a hundred times the population, so they see one hundred times as many (suckers) born every minute.

So exploitation is now rampant. And profiteers set the business standard by treating us all as suckers, and now we have no choice - there's nowhere else to turn to, to get respectful treatment.

[Fliteright]

I’d hate to have the fear you guys have of us unvaxed....we’re coming....to get you😂

[octave]

9 minutes ago, Fliteright said:

I’d hate to have the fear you guys have of us unvaxed....we’re coming....to get you😂

 

I would hate to have the fear you have about having  a vaccination that has been shown to be quite safe and effective.

[facthunter]

We have been organised into  a situation where unvaxed you are at serious risk.. The higher the % vaxed the less  will require hospitalisation and the less it will spread. I've upgraded to better masks. It fits perfectly. The biggest loss is for the people that need "ordinary" non virus attention at the hospitals and there will be a backlog of them to clear and some inevitable deaths will result where earlier detection  would have given better results. Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

2 hours ago, Fliteright said:

I’d hate to have the fear you guys have of us unvaxed....we’re coming....to get you😂

Us vaxxed have no fear, mate.. The great unvaxxed are the ones who will suffer when the contact that lurgy.. Enjoy living in the false sense of security..

 

 

JA