The Nats

[old man emu]

A few years ago, a Liberal Prime Minister put his foot down and said, "No more massacres", and said that he would buy any gun that a person wanted to surrender to the Crown. Result: we don't got no massacres.

 

Port Arthur was the last straw. Australia’s reaction was immediate and strident. The earlier succession of mass shootings had made gun control a prominent public issue, but now widening coalitions for gun control ignited a wildfire campaign for law reform. The nation’s newly elected prime minister was John Howard, its most conservative leader in decades. If any constituency might be forgiven for assuming the legal status quo, it was the rural and gun-owning rump of the Liberal–National Coalition that had swept him to power.

 

Yet, less than two weeks after Port Arthur, Howard’s government delivered a nationwide bipartisan gun law reform. After decades of forcing politicians into repeated consultation, electoral weakness and delay, Australia’s gun lobby was outpaced, outflanked and outwitted by a leader with both the mandate and the personal conviction to move decisively within 12 remarkable days.

 

That's what it's going to take to get to Near-Zero Carbon emissions - a Prime Minister with balls as big as watermelons whose prepared to put the people before profit. No more pussy-footing about.  We want a leader who will act like the heroine of the Ancient Greek play, Lysistrata who sought the end the war between Athens and Sparta by urging women on both sides to keep their legs together.

 

We have the technology and the resources to abandon the use of coal to generate electricity. The sources of non-polluting fuels for motive power are being extensively studied. Finance those things and the coal we mine can be used for making reusable things. Thousands of products are made with coal or coal by-products, including aspirins, soap, dyes, solvents, plastics, and fibres such as rayon or nylon.

 

 

[spacesailor]

If those coal mines close, No coal byproducts will be available.

Those petrol powered car owners will be walking. Unless those EVs become as cheap as IC cars.

Brumby ute was $ 10,000 new. Any EVs that cheap.

92 Jackaroo still running good, drive it go the scrapyard, just because it,s not electric.

It doesn't matter because the owner isn,t powerfull enough to keephis pride & joy.

spacesailor

[nomadpete]

As OME said, Spacey, you can keep your old Subaru or Jackaroo. Not stop mining altogether. Just make the NEW purchases more efficient.

Way back in the 1970's when emission controls were first proposed, because of the health problems resulting from dirty car exhausts, the "experts" all cried that nobody will be able to afford these newfangled cleaner cars! And yet, cars are now cheaper than ever in real terms, and cleaner than ever. And nobody was forced to send their FJ Holdens or Morris Minors to the crushers  The same evolution will happen with electric cars.

[Marty_d]

I would have liked to be a fly on the wall when this final agreement was made between Scummo and Beetroot.  

I reckon there would have been a fair bit of "Look, don't worry mate, we don't need to actually DO anything - we just need to win the next election and to do that we have to pretend to have a plan."

Listening to Dan Tehan on the radio tonight, they're already trying to sell the next big lie.  He was all "We're the party who has consistently met our climate objectives - you can trust that our plan will work..."  and I'm thinking "No, you're the party that has consistently opposed any action on climate change, with your 'Big New Tax' and your '$100 roasts' and your brandishing bits of coal in parliament!"

 

Still, as Goebbels said, if you sell the lie big enough and loud enough, people will believe it.  Worked for them, worked for Trump, now the LNP are trying it on.

[spacesailor]

BUT 

Not those Dirty jumbo jets !.

The skies have never been as clean as they are at the moment. And it,s not the cars,

Whem Kingsford smith airport is up to full capacity, we will have the dirty horizen again.

were will we get our petrol from after the servos are all gone over to ' charging ' stations.

spacesailor

[Marty_d]

10 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

BUT 

Not those Dirty jumbo jets !.

The skies have never been as clean as they are at the moment. And it,s not the cars,

Whem Kingsford smith airport is up to full capacity, we will have the dirty horizen again.

were will we get our petrol from after the servos are all gone over to ' charging ' stations.

spacesailor

Talk to Dax, he'll tell you how to make it from fish & chip oil.

[willedoo]

26 minutes ago, Marty_d said:

I would have liked to be a fly on the wall when this final agreement was made between Scummo and Beetroot.  

Marty, all you have to do is live long enough to be a fly on the wall in thirty years time when the secret squirrel locked up cabinet documents are released.

[Old Koreelah]

Glasgow will be an embarassing time for all Australians; we’llbe represented by a large contingent of deniers pretending to have a plan. They are so far out of date it’s painful.

 

Scumbag won an election by stirring up fear that Labor would take away people’s utes and force us to drive “gutless electric cars”.

What collossal lies.

Australia is being left far behind, still beholden to the oil industry.

 

 

 

[willedoo]

Scummo is serving up a turd sandwich, but he's trying to tell everyone that not only is it not a turd sandwich, but that Australia is leading the way in sandwiches. Ours are the best according to him.

 

Hopefully they'll have a wooden stool in the corner somewhere in Glascow so they can sit the dickhead down there with his Australian flag covid mask. Like the dunce he is.

[old man emu]

Three fossil fuel - coal, oil and natural gas. They can be used to produce long chain carbon compounds that are used to make everything from cars to food additives. ( Let it pass, Dax.) So they are not only energy sources. If we really make an effort to go all electric, we won't need these as energy sources. However, several mineral ores cannot be smelted without a great deal of heat, so we will always have to burn some fossil fuels. 

 

As I said, it only took little Johnny Howard to stand up and shout and we were able to make our Nation safe from misuse of firearms in two short years. If someone else was willing to stick their neck out and take on the the Corporate Robber Barons, I reckon we could reach close to zero emissions in 10 to 15 years, and make big profits to boot.

[Marty_d]

58 minutes ago, old man emu said:

Three fossil fuel - coal, oil and natural gas. They can be used to produce long chain carbon compounds that are used to make everything from cars to food additives. ( Let it pass, Dax.) So they are not only energy sources. If we really make an effort to go all electric, we won't need these as energy sources. However, several mineral ores cannot be smelted without a great deal of heat, so we will always have to burn some fossil fuels. 

 

As I said, it only took little Johnny Howard to stand up and shout and we were able to make our Nation safe from misuse of firearms in two short years. If someone else was willing to stick their neck out and take on the the Corporate Robber Barons, I reckon we could reach close to zero emissions in 10 to 15 years, and make big profits to boot.

They'd have to be one hell of a person, OME.  We've had a few starters but no stayers.  Rudd was the great hope and his entirely workable plan was undone by the LNP but more tragically by the Greens.  Turnbull looked like a game changer after that budgie-smuggling jug eared dope, but was stymied and hamstrung by none other than Scummo, Dutton and the rest of the coal-loving faction.

 

Time to get Kevin back in.  He can smooth the waters with the Chinese, bring in a workable ETS and be the first PM to have 3 bites of the cherry.

[Dax]

7 hours ago, Marty_d said:

Talk to Dax, he'll tell you how to make it from fish & chip oil.

We have the ability to continue using ICE vehicles for awhile and still reduce emissions by 80%, as seed oils omit 80% less harmful emissions. We can and do make plastics, lubricants and just abut anything else coming from fossil fuels from seed oils. 

 

We have an seed plant that provides 50% oil content, twice the oil content of current food oils which can be used to make just about anything, including jet fuel, lubricants and it's a weed called wild radish.

 

If we switched from fossil fuels to seed oils, we would create a long term viable income for the farming industry without the use of chemicals and it would provide us with all the things we need. Unlike fossil fuels, they would be biodegradable and the byproducts good for the soil.

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, Dax said:

We can and do make plastics, lubricants and just abut anything else coming from fossil fuels from seed oils. 

That is a very laudable solution, but there is an elephant in the room - monoculture. Agricultural monoculture upsets the natural balance of soils. Too many of the same plant species in one field area rob the soil of its nutrients, resulting in decreasing varieties of bacteria and microorganisms that are needed to maintain fertility of the soil.

 

Oil palm plantations currently cover more than 27 million hectares of the Earth’s surface. Forests and human settlements have been destroyed and replaced by “green deserts” containing virtually no biodiversity on an area the size of New Zealand. At 66 million tons annually, palm oil is the most commonly produced vegetable oil. Its properties lend themselves to processed foods leading the food industry to use it in half of all supermarket products.

 

Almost half of the palm oil imported into the EU is used as biofuel. Since 2009, the mandatory blending of biofuels into motor vehicle fuels has been a major cause of deforestation. With their CO2 and methane emissions, palm oil-based biofuels actually have three times the climate impact of traditional fossil fuels.

 

Day after day, huge tracts of rainforest in Southeast Asia, Latin America and Africa are being bulldozed or torched to make room for more plantations, releasing vast amounts of carbon into the atmosphere. As a consequence, Indonesia – the world’s largest producer of palm oil – temporarily surpassed the United States in terms of greenhouse gas emissions in 2015.

 

Palm oil is not only bad for the climate: As their forest habitat is cleared, endangered species such as the orangutan, Borneo elephant and Sumatran tiger are being pushed closer to extinction. At the same time, the indigenous peoples who have been part of the forest environment for millennia are suffering a similar fate at the hands of global corporations.

[pmccarthy]

The proposals to use bio-sourced feedstocks for anything substantial are impractical, not just for monoculture problems but for the scale of land area that would be needed. The land would have to be diverted from other production or from natural vegetation. 

 

[old man emu]

3 minutes ago, pmccarthy said:

The land would have to be diverted from other production or from natural vegetation.

One of the later agricultural developments, introduced in the 18th Century was the four-field rotation, which replaced the traditional three-field rotation introduced in Europe about 800 AD. Farmers practiced a three-field rotation, where available lands were divided into three sections. One section was planted in the autumn with rye or winter wheat, followed by spring oats or barley; the second section grew crops such as peas, lentils, or beans; and the third field was left fallow.

 

The sequence of four crops (wheat, turnips, barley and clover), included a fodder crop and a grazing crop, allowing livestock to be bred year-round. The four-field crop rotation became a key development in the British Agricultural Revolution. The rotation between arable and ley is sometimes called ley farming.

 

Both systems included a legume in the rotation. Legumes are plants which aid soil fertility by their mutually beneficial relationship with bacteria which take nitrogen from the air and convert it into compounds that can later be taken up by plants to make protein, which then is eaten by man and animals. The rsidual nitrogen compounds are available for the cereal crops in future years.

[Dax]

59 minutes ago, old man emu said:

That is a very laudable solution, but there is an elephant in the room - monoculture. Agricultural monoculture upsets the natural balance of soils.

No one would use monoculture, wild radish grows on just about anything and in very poor soils. With proper crop rotations and using seed oil plants to rejuvenate the soil as wild radish and some other weed seed crops do and provide a lot of nutrients by leaving the residue, makes a huge difference.

 

As for growing seed oils having an effect on cooking oil yields, who cares, you're destroying your health by using the oils they sell. Most of deep fired foods are cooked in cotton seed and rape seed oil, which are very toxic substances and what natural food comes covered in oil, pretty bizarre some of the things we put into our bodies and wonder why the health of humanity is so bad.

 

What it all boils down to is, there's way to many humans on the planet and there's no way they can be fed by natural means. The Nats want to keep on clearing land and grazing more cows and sheep, animals that are not designed for this type of environment. They are also right behind coal and gas fracking, which is known to destroy ground water and in a desert type of country we have, poisoning the ground water is pure insanity.

 

I laugh at all these fools who eat the trendy synthetic meats and food supposedly designed for vegans, all yo have to do is read the labels to see they are pure chemicals. So those on the trendy vegan trip with the synthetic non animal product foods, is  probably killing people just as fast as the junk food trip.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Dax

[old man emu]

3 minutes ago, Dax said:

No one would use monoculture, wild radish grows on just about anything an in very poor soils. With proper crop rotations and using seed oil plants to rejuvenate the soil as wild radish and come other weed seed crops provide a lot of nutrients by leaving the residue makes a huge difference.

Glad you added that clarification. 

[Yenn]

we could produce vegetable based fuel but that would reduce the land available for food production, also a large part of Australia is too dry to produce big crops, far better suited to dry grazing, with low inputs and low running costs.

Even producing all our fuel from vegetable oils, if we don't lower usage we will be polluting. Our problem with fossil fuels is that we are using many years lay down of fossil fuel in a single year.

The answer is to reduce fuel burn, not to change the fuel.

Modern agriculture has regressed to monoculture in many cases. I see cotton, sorghum, corn and wheat grown succesively on the same plot of land and of course sugar is a prime example. Grown on what was good soil, but nowadays the soil is only there to support the crop physically and it is fed out of a bag.

OME says we need a leader who will act like a heroine. Maybe so, but what we have is a big girl, not a heroine. Does anyone think our leader is fair dinkum with his commitment to net zero. Surely anyone can see that our leader is not trustworthy. Can you believe what he says? If you can you are more gullible than heis, because I am sure he doesn't believe his own words. They are said to keep him in power and to hell with the consequences, because by the time the fan has become splattered he will be gone.

[Dax]

6 minutes ago, Yenn said:

Even producing all our fuel from vegetable oils, if we don't lower usage we will be polluting. Our problem with fossil fuels is that we are using many years lay down of fossil fuel in a single year.

With the right approach, we could use seed oils to reduce fossil use as we transition to electric and environmentally friendly plastics and lubricants from seed oils. The human population will drop dramatically very soon, eating food saturated with fossil oil chemicals, will catch up to everyone consuming them in the next decade, The worlds health system can't cope with the constantly increasing health problems now, which all boil down to diet and once that happens bye bye lots of humans,

 

We are already seeing disease and illness in the young, which was once restricted to old people. The next few years will see an increase in deaths in the young, which is sad but the Nats don't care. they are only interested in power.

[old man emu]

What you have to keep in mind is that even electric motors need lubricants, of which most study has been done of those coming from oil.

 

8 minutes ago, Yenn said:

The answer is to reduce fuel burn, not to change the fuel.

That is indeed the answer. Burning the fuel willy-nilly is what got us into this mess. We must work to replace fossil fuels as our main heat source. It's a battle of the Plebeians against the Patricians, but there are more Plebeians than Patricians. 

 

Whatever, we must keep repeating the Serenity Prayer,

Father, give us courage to change what must be altered,

serenity to accept what cannot be helped,

and the insight to know the one from the other.

[old man emu]

Dax, you seem dead set against consuming any type of dairy product. I see no harm in making them a portion of a diet. After all, milk is a rather dilute mixture.

 

We can concentrate the fats and Non-Fat Solids and call the concentrate "butter", and we can introduce bacteria to help cheese, which is a low sugar food. 

 

 

1 Corinthians 9:25 

Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.

[Dax]

42 minutes ago, old man emu said:

Dax, you seem dead set against consuming any type of dairy product. I see no harm in making them a portion of a diet. After all, milk is a rather dilute mixture.

That's true, especially when you know the amount of chemicals antibiotics and other crap they feed and inject the cows with. It's not only the product, it's what cows do to the environment, and land. What it takes to support one cow, that will contribute to ill health in the population, you can grow enough good food to feed lots of families.

 

I see food as a fuel to keep my biological machine functioning properly, so only indulge in fuels my body needs and can produce good outcomes. I fast once a week. Some days only eat one meal, others eat some fruit in the morning and maybe some toast and then don't eat until the late afternoon, when travelling, don't eat until the evening. Which means my body has the chance to digest, relax and eliminate the waste before having to tackle more fuel.

 

I'm very strict in my diet, but my eating regime sometimes goes off the rails. Especially if I'm socialising and having a few drinks, then I relax, but except for a sip of my neighbours black beer last summer, haven't had any alcohol for well over 2 years. Problem is when I'm socialising, others want to eat my food as they say it's so nice, but none of them ever go out of their way to eat decent foods all the time.

[Marty_d]

Bloody hell OME, you're starting to spout bible verses in every thread!  Do we have to worry that you'll run for parliament next?

[willedoo]

19 hours ago, Marty_d said:

Time to get Kevin back in.  He can smooth the waters with the Chinese, bring in a workable ETS and be the first PM to have 3 bites of the cherry.

I recon Penny Wong would be better.

[willedoo]

6 hours ago, Dax said:

I see food as a fuel to keep my biological machine functioning properly, so only indulge in fuels my body needs and can produce good outcomes. I fast once a week. Some days only eat one meal, others eat some fruit in the morning and maybe some toast and then don't eat until the late afternoon, when travelling, don't eat until the evening. Which means my body has the chance to digest, relax and eliminate the waste before having to tackle more fuel.

 

I'm very strict in my diet, but my eating regime sometimes goes off the rails. Especially if I'm socialising and having a few drinks, then I relax, but except for a sip of my neighbours black beer last summer, haven't had any alcohol for well over 2 years. Problem is when I'm socialising, others want to eat my food as they say it's so nice, but none of them ever go out of their way to eat decent foods all the time.

Dax, one thing I learnt a few years ago was to chew the food properly. It makes a big difference. The food tastes better and you don't overeat. One expert explained that when you eat too quick the stomach hasn't had enough time to get the message to the brain that it's full. I spent a lot of my life gulping food down and I wish I'd started the chewing thing years ago.