A Bill of Rights

[onetrack]

What I'd really like to know, is just how many people Arnie terminated when he was in office.  

[willedoo]

11 hours ago, old man emu said:

It seems that "viceroy" would be the best title for the Monarch's constitutional representative in Australia.

If that happened, I wonder if everyone called Roy would cop a bit of a ribbing from their mates

 

11 hours ago, old man emu said:

That is true for countries without a colonial past

There wouldn't be many countries with governors and no colonial past. The Russian Federation is one example as leaders of the oblasts and krais are called governors. The republics used to have the right to call their leaders 'President' until recent times when the feds overturned that law and now their heads of state are just called 'Head'. There would be a few other examples but not many countries escaped colonialism.

[willedoo]

11 hours ago, old man emu said:

It seems that "viceroy" would be the best title for the Monarch's constitutional representative in Australia.

If that happened, I wonder if everyone called Roy would cop a bit of a ribbing from their mates.

 

11 hours ago, old man emu said:

That is true for countries without a colonial past

There wouldn't be many countries with governors and no colonial past. The Russian Federation is one example as leaders of the oblasts and krais are called governors. The republics used to have the right to call their leaders 'President' until recent times when the feds overturned that law and now their heads of state are just called 'Head'. There would be a few other examples but not many countries escaped colonialism.

[willedoo]

Accidental double post deleted.

Edited November 17, 2021 by willedoo

[pmccarthy]

Viceroy  would be second fiddle to Kingaroy.

[old man emu]

Then there's the Scottish Pretender, Fitzroy.

[onetrack]

Doesn't Kilroy appear everywhere, especially when you least expect him?

[facthunter]

ROY means King last time I looked. I better check again though. Nev

[old man emu]

viceroy (n.)

person ruling as representative of a sovereign, 1520s, from French vice-roy, from Old French vice- "deputy" (see vice-) + roi "king," from Latin regem "king," which is related to regere "to keep straight, guide, lead, rule" 

2 hours ago, onetrack said:

Doesn't Kilroy appear everywhere, especially when you least expect him?

While Kilroy was adopted by the Yanks in WWII and his ancestry in the USA is unknown. However, Aussie Diggers of WWI have the honour of fathering 'Foo"

 

Who was "Foo"? In WW1 Foo was a mythical and mysterious little "man" who turned up nearly everywhere (especially where there was a bit of nonsense going on). 

He was shown (usually) as a little bald headed man peering over a stone wall, with the simple inscription "Foo was here".

He was chalked on the side of railway carriages, appeared in probably every camp that the 1st AIF served in and generally made his presence felt.

[Yenn]

Foo or Chad was similar to the above sketch, but there were fingers over the wall each side of the head.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I find it hard to believe that a smart guy like Yenn voted pro-monarchy in that referendum,  on the grounds that " the present system of choosing head of state was fine". The present system gave us Kerr, for one awful example. And yes , Kerr was the sole appointment of Whitlam, against many from his own party.

Well justice was done in the end, with Whitlam living out his life out as an honoured statesman and Kerr effectively exiled. But the 2/3 system would have never put Kerr in, so things would have been different.

 

[facthunter]

You can't predict what people will do in all circumstances.  Kerr had done some good legal work in his past and had acknowledged talent in legal matters.  He obviously had a drinking problem .Was it OK for Malcolm to with hold supply, so even the Army could not be paid.? 

   The Fraser Gov't was restricted to holding a new election and not able to do anything else. The Murdoch press got Malcolm that election.. Nev

[willedoo]

4 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

I find it hard to believe that a smart guy like Yenn voted pro-monarchy in that referendum,  on the grounds that " the present system of choosing head of state was fine".

I wouldn't call myself smart, but I voted against the republic referendum despite being on the republic side at the time. I had no problem with the 2/3 choice option for selecting the head of state. Most people wanted to elect a president by public vote. The problem with that is that it gives a president a mandate to justify a grab for more power than the GG currently has.

 

The reason I voted no was that Howard was proposing a flawed constitution based on deceit to some degree. I ask a question here about the proposed constitution they mailed out to us - how many citizens read it from front to back and compared it with our current constitution? Put your hands up if you did. I did so, as I have a copy of the present constitution. Time consuming as it was, I was able to compare the two.

 

The authorities were spruiking the minimalist position whereby the powers of the GG and Queen would be transferred to the President. It didn't exactly happen like that. Howard slipped in quite a few clauses which transferred powers from the Queen and GG to the Prime Minister. He was against the republic but was having a bob each way in case it went through.

 

I couldn't believe at the time that the media hadn't jumped on those issues, but I suppose they were busy with debate about how to select the head of state. One example of Howard's constitution: it gave the PM the right to sack the President at any time with short notice and no obligation to provide reason. After a certain time, the parliament got to vote whether to make the sacking permanent or to reinstate the President. Here's the kicker - if the parliament voted to reinstate the President (2/3 majority), the PM had the power to veto the vote and make the termination permanent. That, and other Howard power grabs was why I voted no. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the way I remember reading the comparison at the time.

Edited November 25, 2021 by willedoo

[facthunter]

Confuse the issue and thereby win the Argument? Great tactic but hardly HONEST. Who cares? . It's POLITICS. One of the reasons politicians are poorly regarded.  Eventually  they have so much to cover up they can't afford to be defeated and get desperate to win at any cost.Nev

[facthunter]

What makes you think you are entitled to any Bill of Rights? We reserve that privilege for those who have the means and desire to make it worth OUR while. We are the Party of user Pays, The best pollies MONEY CAN BUY. WE look after those who  look after US. Best business PLAN out there. Nev

[Yenn]

A bill of rights would be as much use as our present constitution, which has been completely ignored by PMT and his government with not a word from the media.

If we did get a bill of rights, one of the things in it should make it illegal for the media to tell lies, as well as the pollies.

[spacesailor]

Now thats the Biggest laugh of ALL.

Bludi pollies telling the truth.

Never happened  And never Will happen.

How do you tell when a pollie is lying.

' the pollie OPENED THEIR MOUTH ' .

spacesailor

 

Edited November 25, 2021 by spacesailor

[old man emu]

All this talk about a Bill of Rights is missing the point. A Bill of Rights describes what a person can expect from the various levels of Government, however, it says nothing about how the powerful must treat the less powerful. That's why the Private Sector gets away with blue murder.

[Old Koreelah]

12 hours ago, spacesailor said:

Now thats the Biggest laugh of ALL.

Bludi pollies telling the truth.

Never happened  And never Will happen…

…and we, the voters are to blame!

How many votes would I get if I led a political party with policies based on honesty:

 

Our country has been living way beyond its means. Australians have been funding our comfortable lifestyles by selling off the farm, bit by bit. Our perennial balance of payments deficits must end.
Sales of housing, land, resources, business assets and intellectual property to foreigners will be banned. 

To pay our way in future, Australian must be competitive with other countries; this means we must accept either lower incomes, work harder, smarter, or all three. 

If we want to stay out of America’s wars and remain at peace, we have to improve relations with our neighbours. This will cost money and involve some uncomfortable compromises.

We must also increase the credibility of our national defence; that means massive local investment in cyber security and locally- built defence assets, plus huge increases in the skills of our workforce. 
To pay for this, will will increase taxes.

Australia’s environment is being degraded at an unsustainable pace, with the world’s highest extinction rate. We need to recruit large numbers of people to rehabilitate damaged land, eradicate weeds and feral animals and manage  increasing fire risks. Nobody will receive welfare; everyone will contribute.

 

Our whole species is living way beyond our means.

We are rapidly using up resources at an unsustainale rate. We will progressively cut back consumption to give our grandchildren some chance in life. You will pay the true price of your luxurious lifestyle.

 

Vote for us!

[spacesailor]

It,s a bit Draconian, .

Mr Hitler sounded much the same & got rid of those that couldn't contribute 

Were are you going tp put all those very elderly, that at the moment take up, good acomidaion.  That can be used to house the cheap farm workers.

UTOPIA but only for the wealthy.

Salery sacrifice fot the overpaid ruling class. So they can retire early in life.

Like the Irish pollie who put the retirement age up, then promptly retired early ,.

ON HIS FAT SUPERANNUATION. 

How will a SOLO mother, get to retire without ANY SUPER AT ALL.

England supposidly WON the war with Gemany ,.

BUT

Germany Won the economics, over the Poverty stricken poms.

Things go to shit for some, back all the way to Surfdom.

Other,s become LORDS.

spacesailor

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

1 hour ago, spacesailor said:

England supposidly WON the war with Gemany ,.

BUT

Germany Won the economics, over the Poverty stricken poms...

We hear this line so often, but nobody ever compares the work ethic of those two nations postwar.
The British carried in with obsolete management and equipment, while class conflicts paralysed the nation. 
Meanwhile, a generation of Germans sacrificed much to rebuild their shattered nation. 

[old man emu]

5 hours ago, Old Koreelah said:

Our perennial balance of payments deficits must end.

I was about to say something about Deficit Budgets, but re-read your words. I hope I am correct in thinking that you are addressing the cause of balance of payments deficits as being due to our penchant for purchasing bright shiny things made elsewhere, and not producing equivalent things here. If so, I agree.

 

Australia is a country rich in natural resources, but p!ss poor in governments with foresight. We bowed to the financiers of the Square Mile of London and the Gnomes of Zurich. We sold out to anyone who flashed a roll of banknote before us. We swallowed the propaganda that we were Second Class, and we taught the lesson to our kids. 

 

So destroyed has been the pioneering spirit of of forefathers that it is unlikely the country will ever produce more than a few flashes of innovative brilliance while other races sweep in to plunder the riches of our land. Perhaps the descendants of pre-WWII Australians should join in the lament of the Aborigines, "Poor bugger, me!.

[facthunter]

The brits had to pay off lend lease. The Russians told the US to stick it. WE had ration cards HERE after the war. We couldn't get US Dollars at all unless on the black market. Nev

[onetrack]

And when you have the likes of Clive Palmer selling everything he can lay his hands on, to the Chinese, so he can personally gather up more billions - at the same time as he's telling everyone the Chinese are a pack of bastards, who are intent in taking over Australia, you begin to understand where many of our problems originate from. 

[Old Koreelah]

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

The brits had to pay off lend lease. The Russians told the US to stick it. WE had ration cards HERE after the war. We couldn't get US Dollars at all unless on the black market. Nev

Is that totally true? A shipment of Soviet gold out of Murmansk, sunk by U-boat, was located recently. Presumably the commies were paying for the goodies they received.