Invasion or Immigration?

[Old Koreelah]

7 hours ago, old man emu said:

My email friend was born in Latvia; grew up in Brazil and works in Sweden for Ericsson…

I still have the telephone we used on our farm: a large wooden 1897 Ericsson.

[facthunter]

That wooden work too good, wood it?  I have a couple of Ericsson Magnetos made in 1916.  Nev

[spacesailor]

My grandson told me that they will be learning French next term !.

SO 

l got him in front of the P C, &  loaded ' Leapfrog French ' for him to learn a litte beforehand. 

First thing from him in that french class,  good morning madam in french. 

That class was canceled! , 

spacesailor

[Marty_d]

On 29/11/2021 at 10:12 PM, Old Koreelah said:

My other half and I are planning a crash course in French to prepare for a week or so in that country next year. Lots of work, but it might postpone Old Timers Disease a few years…

 

It's not a crash course, but my wife and I have been using Duolingo for almost 2 years now.  I do about 15 minutes of French every day.  I've found the course really good - the way it takes you from simple concepts through to the more difficult stuff is great.  It's free too, unless you want to pay for the no ads/unlimited health option.

They do a shedload of other languages too, so in the leaderboards you'll come across people from pretty much every country on Earth learning different languages.  One of their ads claim that in the US, more people are using Duolingo than are learning a second language in the school system.

I can really recommend it - je peux vraiment le recommander!

[Marty_d]

On 30/11/2021 at 10:17 AM, facthunter said:

 

  The French have their own style of humour. 

This one's pretty much the same as ours!

 

 Literally... "I have no need of Google - my wife knows everything"

[nomadpete]

'Australia Day', or perhaps 'First Fleet Day',  is coming up so I thought it might be time to stir this pot.

 

What the heck. After all the generations passing since that day, the fact remains that there was no military invasion event.

 

As a democracy, the idea is that the will of the (majority of) the people should be honored.

 

I'm pretty sure that the majority of the people acknowledge that there have been acts of agression and of violence against people whose origins predate 1770. I am sad that that was the culture of that era. Those days are gone. Note that it is also well documented that there were many honorable whites that were not in any way violent or agressive toward indigenous. What about some balance? Should the majority of the living population be forever saddled with guilt for acts committed by long deceased individuals? I think not.

 

Put another shrimp on the barbie, I say.

 

[onetrack]

I'm always amused by those who claim to be one of the huge number of the "downtrodden, invaded, poor and socially-marginalised people", claiming "their land" was "stolen" from them.

These people, virtually without fail, have a percentage of white European blood in them - sometimes even more than 50% of their ancestry - which they totally deny and ignore, claiming they are fully indigenous. Seems to me to be pretty opportunistic to wholly deny a large part of your DNA.

 

Then, there's the question that needs to be asked - who did the Aborigines displace when they "invaded" Australia? It seems hardly likely that Australia was totally bereft of human habitation before the Indigenes walked in from India and Java, and took the country over as their own.

These people are warlike, and spent plenty of time fighting with other indigenous tribes over disputed areas of their "tribal lands".

 

In the area of the W.A. wheatbelt where I lived and worked in the 1960's to 1990's, there was a large prominent rock, which featured as a social gathering point for the European invaders, for picnics, etc.

But that rock and the surrounding large area was deemed "taboo" by local indigenes - and nary a single indigene was ever spotted there. Their story went, that in ages past, a huge tribal war took place there, and many tribespeople died, so the area became "taboo" for indigenes, because of the "spirits" of the dead that lingered there.

 

Funnily enough, the area has just been included in a large land claim by the Noongar-Boodjar Trust - a conveniently white European legal arrangement designed to transfer vast areas of S.W. W.A. to indigenous ownership and control - along with the the huge financial allocation for the trust as well. I don't see their "taboo" areas excluded from the claim - even though, in their tribal lifestyle, they avoided the area like the plague.

What I find even more amusing is that the land claim area encompasses almost exactly, all the usable and profitable European-developed farmland area of the S.W. of W.A. I wonder why the "marginal" farming areas and semi-desert areas of the S.W. of W.A. were not included in the land claim? Something strikes me about the whole Noongar-Boodjar deal as being pretty opportunistic.

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

who did the Aborigines displace when they "invaded" Australia? It seems hardly likely that Australia was totally bereft of human habitation before the Indigenes walked in from India and Java, and took the country over as their own.

The archaeology and DNA studies indicate that the 'Australoid' racial type, in which the Aborigines are placed by anthropologists, were the vanguard of the human migration out of Africa and seem to have reached Australia about 60,000 years ago after turning right near present day Bangladesh. So, when they arrived on the continent, they were first humans and therefore did not displace anyone. 

 

Could the Catholic Irish apply the example of the Aborigines and reclaim Northern Ireland from Great Britain using the legal arguments that gave rise to Australia's Native Title arrangements?

[Yenn]

If the aboriginals are the first people here who did the rock art in WA which appears to depict men in space helmets, or with halos, known as Bradshaws? The aborigines say they were here when they came.

Where in the world is there an original people living? Very few places. Most people have been invaded and moved on many times over the history of mankind.

[old man emu]

7 hours ago, Yenn said:

If the aboriginals are the first people here who did the rock art in WA

The correct question is when did the aborigines you refer to enter the country they now occupy? 

 

The earliest evidence of humans in Australia has been variously estimated, with most agreement  that it dates from between 50,000 and 65,000 years ago.  According to mitochondrial DNA research, Aboriginal people reached Eyre Peninsula 49,000-45,000 years ago from both the east (clockwise, along the coast, from northern Australia) and the west (anti-clockwise).

 

However, research is showing that there were possible a number if was of migration, the last being about 5000 years ago. It is possible that the people Yenn knows were part of that migration wave, and therefore would have come across the artefacts created by earlier migrations as they moved over the continent. Perhaps the Tasmanian people were the descendants of the mob who arrived 60,000 years ago. Fortunately our ability to get information from DNA is helping to solve the question of human expansion over the whole world.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistory_of_Australia

[Old Koreelah]

It’s hard to imagine that only one wave of ancient humans reached our continent. There are many similarities between Indigenous Australians and groups around Asia and nearer islands.

 

Advances in DNA might tell us; entire new vistas of human origins are opening up. One of the most interesting topics there is. 

Blue eyes first appeared in black-skinned people, pale skin has been traced to western Asia. Denisovan DNA spread from Siberia to Australia, New Guinea, South America…

There are enough oddities in the archaeological record to challenge the Darwinian model of human origins. There is some evidence humans have been around for an immense time. Advanced civilizations could have existed in the distant past; that might explain many ancient stone repics, large and small.

Who knows what future discoveries will reveal? Did we truly develop from primates or did some extra-terrestrial interference trigger our species?

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, Old Koreelah said:

Did we truly develop from primates or did some extra-terrestrial interference trigger our species?

You have to ask yourself, "Why would one tribe of a sub-species be selected for interference by some extra-terrestrial beings when the results of that selection have to have been uncertain?" 

 

The only logical explanation is that in the development of every living thing on this planet, environmental factors influencing survival to reproductive age were the cause of continued speciation, or either extinction of the variant or its being halted by reaching a suitable climax. 

[facthunter]

Tracing of DNA and sharing with most living organisms leads to considering most or ALL have the same common ancestry.  We didn't evolve from apes but share a lot of DNA. Environmental changes cause extinctions leaving a Modified Gene pool residue to continue on from. All effects can cause modification. We've had plenty of time for that, so complexity is not hard to explain.. Many of our organs are not as perfect as one would hope IF intelligent design was the way it happened. WE are STILL evolving and always have. Dogs have infinitely superior sense of smell. The Octopus has better eyesight. Sharks are without bones and don't get Cancer. and so on .Nev

[red750]

Bloody Andy Capp - oops, Sally Capp, is stirring the pot again. Melbourne City Council has voted in favour of changing the date of Australia Day.

 

WTF! They won't be happy whenever it's held. And they are still confused about what it represents. Hold it on the 29th of February, or the 32nd of April and they'd still complain. Would America put up with changing the 4th of July? I even heard one guy say "Hold it on the last Friday of (pick a month). What would that represent?

 

TV news broadcasts are no better. They still show the statue of Cook covered in red paint. Nothing to do with it. Go back to school, drongos!

 

End of rant.  (for now)

[spacesailor]

Poor old Cook didn,t invade or immigrant, 

He bloody left, & went home .

spacesailor

[old man emu]

Melbournians have a hide getting all uppity about the establishment of a settlement in Sydney on 26th January, 1788.

 

John Batman came to Port Phillip Bay in May 1835 and 'paid' the local Aboriginal people in blankets and trinkets for about 243,000 acres of land which included what is now Melbourne. At least the Sydneysiders attempted peaceful co-existence from the beginning.

 

John Batman had set aside part of the land he had acquired from the Aboriginals for a township. Governor Bourke visited the town in March 1837, and though he was not impressed by the way Batman had 'bought' the land from the indigenous people, agreed the site near the Yarra River was the best place for a settlement. 

 

Chew on this: If Batman exchanged items of value (blankets and beads) for items of value (land) then that implies that Batman believed that the land was the property of the Aboriginal people to deal with as they desired. Puts a spke in the wheel of "terra nullis" doesn't it. 

[Bruce Tuncks]

My sister nearly starved in Paris because an arrogant local at the bank could not be made to check it their stipend had arrived or not.

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

OME, I read the story of Batman's arrival, where the local aborigines ran off and they only caught up with a lame old woman who lagged behind the tribe. Instead of killing her, they gave her trade-goods and " bought" victoria from her. 

Apparently they were sorely upset when the Sydney Govt disallowed their purchase.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I just hate the way that tribes have been re-named as "first nations".

[pmccarthy]

3 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

My sister nearly starved in Paris because an arrogant local at the bank could not be made to check it their stipend had arrived or not.

 

I had a stipend once but some ointment cleared it up.

[Yenn]

First Nation is on;y a temporary name, which succeeded black, abo, aboriginal, coory, etc. when it becomes un- acceptable to the politically correct there will be something else.

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, Yenn said:

First Nation is on;y a temporary name,

The term "First Nation" was initially applied to the  peoples who lived in the Americas since pre-Columbian times. First Nations is the official term for Canadian tribes, and is reflected in the treaties that represent the source of First Nations peoples’ unique nation-to-nation relationship with the Crown. There are eleven Treaties in force in Canada. A treaty is a negotiated agreement that sets out clearly defined rights and responsibilities of First Nations and the federal and provincial governments. It is also a full and formal expression of reconciliation between First Nations and government. Treaty-making is used to build new relationships with First Nations based on the principles of mutual respect, recognition and reconciliation.

 

In the light of that, it does seem to be a good term to adopt in Australia. It is fair to say that there are many Nations of Aboriginal people since the word “nation” can also refer to a group of people who share a history, traditions, culture and, often, language. As for Treaties, note the very important TWO words "rights'" "responsibilities" Too often the second one is forgotten in the cries for the first.

[onetrack]

So whenever there's car thefts or violent assaults, the First Nation peoples are always responsible?

[spacesailor]

Only if your in Their town .

Only been to two towns were the locals tell you to keep off the street.

We stayed at a hotel & the car,  was behind very high sturdy walls.

spacesailor

Edited September 8, 2022 by spacesailor

[Bruce Tuncks]

I wonder what will be asked for if the "voice" referendum goes through. I bet it will not be extra ( or any ) responsibilities.

My guess is that it be more money. Or more power to stop whitefellers doing awful things like rock-climbing.

Hey I read that Uluru was being re-enstated for climbing, on account of how visitor numbers have fallen. Is this so?