Invasion or Immigration?

[old man emu]

Interesting happening told to me by someone associated with it.

 

The RAAF had some project and were looking for a file name. You know Project Whatsit. The Project Leader thought an aboriginal word would be PC, so a word was selected. Project staff prowled through aboriginal word lists to find out what language it came from. They found that it was from a southern South Australian tribe. Somehow, some legal eagle heard of the plan to use the word and screamed out a warning to teh RAAF not to use it.

 

The legal eagle told the RAAF that the tribe was one of the most litigous in the country. When they found out that the word was being used without their approval they would be in Court faster than you could say, M'lud. And in teh current environment would win any action they bought, with costs and a requirement to pay a fee every time the word was used.

 

9 hours ago, red750 said:

for at least 30,000 years (prior to the arrival of the British) the Aboriginals seemed to have not progressed one step.

BUT

9 hours ago, red750 said:

Since the arrival of the English, only about 250 years ago

they seemed to have grasped the concepts of the Law of Torts in an all-embracing bear hug.

[Bruce Tuncks]

You are wrong in a funny way Red. The Tasmanian aborigines are unique for moving BACKWARDS in the 30,000 years. They lost the ability to sew skins together, as just one example.

[Yenn]

They have moved backwards, but they have culture. I don't know what their culture consists of. Possibly it is showing great care for the women and children?

[Jerry_Atrick]

Maybe hadn't the Tassie Aboriginals been treated so poorly, they would have progressed in their culture: https://www.britannica.com/topic/Tasmanian-Aboriginal-people

 

 

[old man emu]

Due to their isolation from the end of the last Ice Age(10,000 years ago) their culture would have remained at that level of advancement, much the same way as the Yahgan from the southern-most tip of South America remained hunter/gatherers. The Yahgan language, also known as Yámana, is considered a language isolate. A language isolate is unrelated to any other, which makes it the only language in its own language family. It is a natural language with no demonstrable genealogical (or "genetic") relationships—one that has not been demonstrated to descend from an ancestor common with any other language. Palawa, the language of the Tasmanian Aboriginals might have been another "isolate" language.

[onetrack]

After 200 years of European education, training, and attempts at "civilisation", there's still way too many Aborigines who have failed to advance beyond Stone Age behaviour.

 

There are sizeable numbers of Aboriginals in communities in the interior, who don't even have a proper grasp of English - so they're unemployable, and they then become angry when they see other Aborigines who have acquired basic skills, gain jobs and money.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Is the plight because of inabilities, lazoiness, or neglect in a world changing rapidly around them? That article of the Tassie Aboriginals had me thinking, that had there been a different attitude after the initial issues that one would expect, the outcomes may be very different. Of course, back in the early and late 1800s a totally diffreent attitiude prevailed, but after WWI even, when Aboriginals served well, we couldn't shake the neglectful treatment by the sounds of it.

[old man emu]

14 hours ago, onetrack said:

 

There are sizeable numbers of Aboriginals in communities in the interior, who don't even have a proper grasp of English 

Hardly a reason. After all there were a lot of post-WWII immigrants who never became fully literate in English, and they survived and prospered. How about Pacific Islanders?

 

A major reason for their unemployability is that, like people all over the world, they don't want to leave their own country and social network. How many of us would pack up and leave our place of origin to go somewhere just for emplyment. Yes, a lot of you here have done so, or been dragged along by your parents, but the vast majority of people don't leave the general area they grew up in. Ask the people of Eugowra if they are going to go or stay. Most will stay.

 

So, the problem is not illiteracy, nor unwillingness to travel, it's lack of employment opportunities within their homelands. That problem will never be solved due to one factor - lack of permanently flowing rivers. Those rivers are the things that draw populations into sparsely populated areas to establish towns that generate jobs. Just compare the USA from the Mississippi westward to Australia from Great Dividing Range westward. Perhaps the Saviour will be Global Warming. The ice melts; the sea levels rise and the Eromanga Sea of the Cretaceous Period might return.

[onetrack]

Not entirely true, OME. The newspapers in Alice Springs have plenty of stories about businesses in Alice Springs requiring employees and having Aboriginals from communities turn up applying for the jobs, and they struggle to sign their name, let alone read and write to a satisfactory level.

 

You could possibly say the problem is in the Whites education system - maybe it is, maybe there is some better way to educate the Aboriginals to read and write English - but the basic problem is sheer laziness, a complete unwillingness to continue to go to school lessons, and learn.

 

These are the people who get paid to attend school, and yet the failure rate of Aboriginals in education is over 60% (I have an Aboriginal "elder" friend who is deeply involved in trying to educate Aborigines, and that figure comes from him).

 

Then there's the problem that businesses run by whites prefer not to set up in areas where Aboriginals live in large numbers. Witness Tennant Creek, Warburton, Wiluna, and many other NT towns where whites have to put up with rampant violence and regular destruction carried out by Aboriginals. Large numbers of whites have left these towns, along with businesses. All the banks have left Tennant Creek, thanks to vast levels of criminal attacks and damage.

 

Warburton is worse than any South African ghetto, with destruction on an unprecedented scale and where the whites live behind 3M high wire fences with vicious dogs, to deter attacks. Streets get barricaded with piles of tyres and debris, as the locals fight and carry out revenge attacks. I've been there and seen it, and I was appalled that any place in this country still has that level of lack of civilisation.

The police in Warburton are rotated out every few months, because the pressure on them is immense, with constant violence and crime levels that no-one should have to put up with.

 

Even taking photos of Aborigines is banned in Aboriginal Lands, and there are warnings everywhere not to do so, as it's culturally taboo. This is Stone Age superstitiousness, and they believe you are stealing their soul taking a photo. What hope is there for people who can't get past their highly restrictive superstitions that hold them back in a modern, educated society?

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by onetrack

[nomadpete]

Been to all those places, and more. BTW yuendumu is another frightening place.

You are describing a culture that is destructive. Yet that demographic group and their hangers-on all cry out that the indigenous culture is sacred and must be preserved. The same people are blaming outsiders (mostly us whities) for all indigenous problems, but most of their problems are a result of their own tribal culture.

 

 

 

[facthunter]

Most of the trouble is GROG, same as with SOME whites. and $#!t food.   Nev

[nomadpete]

OME, you do have a point about geographic laziness of most humans - I heard the most westerners die within 50k of where they were born. Even the Aust indigenous try to return to their birthplace to die, in spite of being traditionally nomadic. But the indigenous arrived in Australia my migrating. Which means that they left somewhere unlivable to find a better place.

 

And most 'whities' will move away from any place that they cannot find employment. Almost everyone I have worked with, and the majority in my present community, have had to make big moves to get work. Move away from disasters, or ex wives. When life gets intolerable in one location, humans move to a better place. That's why 'whities' have moved away from many towns that onetrack mentioned, and they took businessess with them. Why don't the present unfortunates in the many unlivable indigenous communities(I can't call then towns), move closer to schools. Work, and safety? Don't tell me it's because of connection to land as it is easy to spend weekends 'on country'

Edited November 19, 2022 by nomadpete

[facthunter]

I'm the only one of my current extended family who ever left the STATE they were born in. Nev

[nomadpete]

Nev, you are exceptional.

[old man emu]

5 minutes ago, nomadpete said:

Nev, you are exceptional.

Yeah, but that's not relevant only to this thread.😉

[facthunter]

I don't support football teams either. THAT can be almost compulsory. Nev

[red750]

I'm posting this here because it is appropriate on two grounds. First, it relates to a not-so-well known form of immigration, and second, it parallels, and in many ways, is worde than the "stolen generation".

 

I have just watched a one-off special addition of the English program Long Lost Family titled "Shipped To Australia". It tells the story of children between 4 and 8 years of age, placed in care for various reasons, in England. These children were then shipped to Australia, many without their parents knowledge or consent in what was known as Child Migration, to provide white labour under the White Australia Policy. This took place between the end of WWII and 1970. In Australia, predominantly WA, the children were placed in institutions, many run by the Catholic Church, where they were beaten and sexually abused. When they asked about their parents, they were told they were dead. Meanwhile, in England, when the parents asked after their children, they were told they had been adopted into a better life, or had died. Any letters sent between family members were intercepted by the institutions, so there was no contact.

 

The program follows two such shipped children, tracing their families through DNA. One man met his brother who had not been shipped, for the first time in 50 years. The other discovered that his parents had in fact died, but much later, but was reunited with a neice and her son, who was able to fill in the blanks about his father, who had fought in WWI and WWII, and been awarded the OBE. The man knew nothing of this.

 

The program was captivating, but most harrowing to watch.  

[onetrack]

We knew a couple of the Bindoon Catholic farm boys in the late '50's/ early '60's who were abused, mistreated and worked worse than slaves. They carried a lot of problems with them, all through life.

 

The Catholic farm schools were absolute cesspits of abuse, violence and mistreatment from some of the sickest bastards around - and hardly a one of them ever got prosecuted, and it was all due to the massive power of the Church in those days. Any police officer who wanted to press charges against the Brothers in that era would find himself demoted.

 

I'm glad these abused men continued to pursue the few old perverts amongst this bunch that they could still find alive, and get some compensation.

I also have a Catholic farmer friend in his 50's who went to Tardun farm school in the 70's, and he told me how the boys would take sticks to bed to beat off the fondlers amongst the Brothers during the night, in the dormitorys.

 

http://www.brokenrites.org.au/drupal/node/291

 

Edited November 21, 2022 by onetrack

[Bruce Tuncks]

The abuse went to the top of society. Sir William Slim was our governor-general and according to many survivors,  when he visited an orphanage, a good-looking boy was taken out to the vice-regal car and then the minders retired for awhile. 

This story is today referred to as " unproven allegations" as if a ten-year-old orphan could provide proof against the governor-general.

 

On another topic, I reckon that lots of black boys in the US must have hated Obama. I can imagine them being nagged " You get off your ass and do some work...  you could be President!"

It is interesting to follow the different histories of Obama and the typical black  gang-member in the US, as it should shed some light on just what is being done wrong with our own indigenous youth.

 

Speaking of Yuendumu, a place I used to know well, it is worth noting that it is/was a DRY place. The alcoholics drift to the town ( Alice Springs) and give blacks a bad name. But they ( the blacks ) have a much higher percentage of non-drinkers than the whites have.

Mind you, whites have been culled out over thousands of years, and blacks have just got exposed, so it does them much more harm.

[nomadpete]

I have seen one community that heard that a camera crew were coming to town. The day before the crew arrived, a very long tray truck drove slowly through town. There was a pallet of grog on the truck and by the time it headed bush, it was loaded with locals. All the biggest troublemakers disappeared for 3days.

When the camera crew arrived the only people left to film were women, malnourished children and the odd old feller who was too slow to get on the truck.

 

Another story (first hand from my boss). Working on a dry island community. Trenching cables under the sand. Hits buried carton of tinnies. Not wanting to get in trouble, foreman fronts the Indigenous Council. Bossman says "Terrible. Not allowed. Destroy them". After it happened a third time, Bossman was in tears, "Didn't know you gunna dig there - them's mine!"

But just as bad, our workers were never questioned when each week they ferried a couple of soda fire extinguishers out, and put them in the fridge. (DIY rum &coke premixed)

Edited November 21, 2022 by nomadpete
post production processing