Sanctions against Russia

[willedoo]

It's a crazy war. Russian gas still transits across Ukraine, with Ukraine earning 7 billion per year in transit fees. The gas transit deal runs out at the end of 2024 and Ukraine is saying they are unlikely to renew the deal. By that time, European countries might have stopped buying Russian gas anyway. On the flip side. the Ukrainians stopped the flow of ammonia via pipeline from Russia to the port facilities in Odesa. It's possibly one of the reasons the Russians keep attacking Odesa, to bully them into reopening the pipeline and allowing Russian ammonia to be exported by ship from Odesa. The ammonia pipeline is one of the conditions putler has as a must for re-entering the grain deal.

[spenaroo]

makes you wonder what the outcome would have been if the USA hadn't destroyed the Nuclear weapons Ukraine possessed in the 1990's

[Old Koreelah]

21 minutes ago, spenaroo said:

makes you wonder what the outcome would have been if the USA hadn't destroyed the Nuclear weapons Ukraine possessed in the 1990's

Good point Spenaroo. 
There’s no mystery about why fat little Kim is investing so much of North Korea’s limited resources on nuclear weapons; he saw what happened when Iraq and Libya gave up theirs. Not having nukes is a guarantee that America and it’s allies can destroy your country.

[willedoo]

2 hours ago, Old Koreelah said:

Good point Spenaroo. 
There’s no mystery about why fat little Kim is investing so much of North Korea’s limited resources on nuclear weapons; he saw what happened when Iraq and Libya gave up theirs. Not having nukes is a guarantee that America and it’s allies can destroy your country.

Or in Ukraine's case, Russia. The security guarantees from Russia and the west in return for giving up the nukes turned out to be worthless. The only solid guarantee would have been if Ukraine continued as a nuclear power. That sends a big message to people like Kim.

[Jerry_Atrick]

4 hours ago, Marty_d said:

The other side of it though is the availability of the products.  If international companies keep supplying the Russian market then the people will not notice a difference and the Kremlin can say "nothing to see here".  However if the "luxury" items come off the shelf and Western companies disappear, then the general public will notice that their lives are getting fractionally worse because of their government's choices which may provoke at least some thought.

No one could say that it would have been right for companies from Allied countries to supply Nazi Germany with goods and services, I don't see how this is any different.

That is a good point for staple consumables, but all Russia has done is take over the production facilities or fulfilled the gaps with niche products and framed it as a war on Russia by the west, which people seem either gullible to or scared shitless of ending in a Gulag if they protest (probably the latter).

 

In other words, I don't think it will make a blind bit of difference to the outcome, so may as well suck as much profit out of them as you can

Edited July 21, 2023 by Jerry_Atrick

[facthunter]

Destroying 60 milion tons is significant. and sacrilege really. Nev

[rgmwa]

Apparently enough to feed 250,000 people for a year.

[willedoo]

On a happier note, Patron the world famous bomb dog turned four today.

 

[willedoo]

I like his work flak jacket with the handle on it. They carry him like a handbag when they need to.

 

[willedoo]

putler has finally had enough of Girkin's criticism. He's been arrested in Moscow and on the current charges, is looking at six years.

[facthunter]

Time at the FRONT will fix that>  Nev

[willedoo]

The Russians are pushing their luck. Yesterday they carried out a drone attack on Reni, a port city on the Danube. Across the other side of the river is Romania, a NATO Country. The reason for the attack is that the Ukrainians are contemplating transporting some grain by train to port facilities there, then ship it from there hugging the coastline and staying in Romanian, Bulgarian and Turkish waters.

[facthunter]

Putin picked his Bed and is LYING in it.  He's ADDICTED to Death and destruction and FEAR of his own demise . Nev

[Bruce Tuncks]

Yep , I reckon our hope of avoiding a nuke is to convince the lower-down Russians that they and their families are going to get it sooner if they obey putin instead of defying him.

BUT I do like the notion that if a nuke is used in the Ukraine, the russians currently in Ukraine will be obliterated by non-nukes quite fast.

[Bruce Tuncks]

PS I would vote for Australia to have nukes. Not that I would want them to be used, but how many attacks have there ever been on countries with nukes? Once, I foolishly thought that giving up nukes meant that the nuclear countries GUARANTEED your security.( Under the non-proliferation treaty, I thought)

This Ukraine stuff, plus a bit of google research, has demonstrated to me that this is nonsense. So I hereby suggest that Australia builds hundreds of Jabiru drones, and fits them with "dirty bombs" until we can make the real stuff. 

[Marty_d]

How many attacks have been made on every country without nukes? Correlation is not causation. 

[facthunter]

Russian leaders haven't usually cared much (if at all) how many of their people die as long as the result is achieved.. Medvedev  and others say without a powerful Russia the world may as well not exist... Nev

[Bruce Tuncks]

It's obvious to me why a country with nukes has never been attacked, I don't understand why you don't see this Marty

AND I don't think that even Russia has attacked a country with nukes nev.

[Marty_d]

There are around 200 countries on Earth and only a handful have nukes.  Of the ones that have nukes, most if not all have been invaded, at war or even still at war (Russia, North Korea) at some time. Many countries without nukes have not been at war for much longer. So my point is that having nukes is not a guarantee of peace and in fact more likely to lead to proliferation and acquisition by rogue actors with disastrous consequences. 

[willedoo]

This small strip of land would be highly prized real estate to putler and his mate potato head. Only catch is, they would have to call NATO's bluff to take it.

 

[Old Koreelah]

Hopefully it’s finally dawned on him that Russia’s military isn’t invincible.

In fact, Poland is the emerging threat to Russia; they have centuries of grievances to avenge.

[facthunter]

ALL of Europe has grievances to avenge. . When the perpetrators are dead and gone why keep up the HATE?  No one has ever been able to choose who their Parents are.  Nev

[Old Koreelah]

6 minutes ago, facthunter said:

ALL of Europe has grievances to avenge. . When the perpetrators are dead and gone why keep up the HATE?  No one has ever been able to choose who their Parents are.  Nev

It seems that many nations have learned to forgive; Much of Europe seems to get along pretty well, only two generations after a big killing spree.

Australians visiting Vietnam report that the locals have no interest in the War against America and us.

 

It seems that the main problem is what the kids are taught; Serbs seem particularly unable to forgive the crimes done to their grandfathers. Greeks and Turks can’t seem to get along. I wonder if Turkey has offered to help fight the wildfires in Greece. If they did, would their help be accepted?

 

[facthunter]

Young kids seem to get on well until grown ups start telling them why they shouldn't. Religion, language, colour and distrust.Nev

[Bruce Tuncks]

I was taught to be anti-catholic, but it never rubbed off...  I guess my parents were not very anti-catholic themselves.

We were supposed to sing " catholic dogs, eating frogs, eating maggots out of logs" but we never did.In fact, we felt sorry for the catholic kids cos the sister in charge was insane. She had a length of electric flex to hit the kids with all day.

In later life, just by chance, many of my mates were catholics... at least by birth they were. I don't remember discussing theology at all, it was not an interest we had, well not as much as model planes.