Sanctions against Russia

[willedoo]

Russia's flagship of the Black Sea Fleet, the missile cruiser 'Moskva', is out of action and the crew have abandoned ship. The Russians are claiming an onboard fire set off an ammunition blast. The Ukrainians are claiming they hit it with one of their domestically produced Neptune shore based anti ship missiles. If that's true, Vladolph Putler will be starting to get a bit peeved with those inconvenient Ukrainians. The toll so far for the Russian Navy is one landing ship sunk, two damaged, one missile cruiser badly damaged and the deputy commander of the Black Sea Fleet killed.

 

 

[willedoo]

Ukraine definitely has the edge in the media war. They've issued a million stamps portraying the defenders of the Ukrainian Island telling the Russian Warship to F off early in the war. The Russian warship was the Moskva referred to in the previous post.

 

 

[willedoo]

It doesn't take long for the memes to appear.

 

 

[Marty_d]

I thought that island story turned out to be a myth.

[Jerry_Atrick]

One doesn't know whether it was an anti-ship missile, or a fire breaking out - either Vlad will be peeved, anyway, and someone or many are going to pay dearly. There was a yootoob vid from either CNN or MSNBC with the clickbait title that said Vlad  was starting to clear out his own over the failed war - er - special military operation.

 

One the information propaganda side, this is an interesting read: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-14/putin-disinformation-fake-war-ukraine-syria/100988412

 

Also, if Putin was trying to weaken other country's resolve to join NATO, it has had the opposite effect (from ABC commentary:)

Nordic countries turning to NATO

European Union nations Finland and Sweden have reached important stages on the way to possible NATO membership, with the Finnish government issuing a security report to MPs and Sweden's ruling party initiating a review of security policy options.

Russia's invasion of Ukraine on February 24 triggered a surge of support for joining NATO in the two traditionally non-aligned Nordic countries. 

A recent poll showed a majority (54 per cent) of respondents in Finland would support joining NATO.

In early March a Demoskop poll commissioned by Aftonbladet newspaper showed 51 per cent of Swedes were in favour of NATO membership, up from 42 per cent in January.

Finland, with a population of 5.5 million, shares the EU's longest border with Russia, a 1,340km frontier. Sweden has no border with Russia.

Russia has warned Sweden and Finland against joining NATO, with officials saying it would not contribute to stability in Europe.

Officials said Russia would respond to such a move with retaliatory measures that would cause "military and political consequences" for Helsinki and Stockholm.

One of Russian President Vladimir Putin's reasons for invading Ukraine was the country refused to promise it would not join NATO.

Speaking on Wednesday in Stockholm during a joint news conference with her Swedish counterpart Magdalena Andersson, Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin said Finland was ready to make a decision on NATO "within weeks" rather than months after an extensive debate in the 200-seat Eduskunta legislature.

[willedoo]

25 minutes ago, Marty_d said:

I thought that island story turned out to be a myth.

Marty, it really happened. The myth was that the defenders died defending the island. Zelensky even awarded them posthumous Hero of Ukraine awards before the information filtered through that they were captured and taken as POW's. They've all since been released by the Russians. I think it was a prisoner exchange. As far as I believe, they were not regular soldiers but something like Coast Guard.

Edited April 14, 2022 by willedoo

[willedoo]

24 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

clear out his own over the failed war - er - special military operation.

 

[Yenn]

No matter what is happening on the ground, I am appalled that we in the West have done so little to help Ukraine. We seem to be afraid that if we do something that an all out war will occur, but as I see it, if we do nothing the Russian bully will keep killing in Ukraine and then go on to all the other previous USSR states. We are lacking in guts and I hark back to Britains declaration of war against Germany, which was because Germany attacked Poland.

Joe Biden could not be called corrupt, he is to stupid and sleepy to be involved in corruption, but why on earth did he tell the Russians he would not commit troops to help Ukraine. That was the green light for Putin.

[Jerry_Atrick]

I agree.. I can't believe the collective might of allies (after all NATO cannot do such a thing itself) could not come up with a way to simply nuetralise Russia, while giving Putin a plausible way out to his people - or better still - taking him and a lot of his cronies out - maybe to the same island that Napolean was deposed to.

 

Three words come to mind: oil, gas, and votes (but if successful, those votes would have come in twice as many).

Edited April 14, 2022 by Jerry_Atrick

[willedoo]

Putler has done enormous damage, but he's had a big kick in the pants. He's lost quite a slab of his effective fighting forces. His original idea of taking Kiev in a few days and installing a puppet government backfired. Then the face saving objective was to 'liberate' the Donbass regions and as a bonus, take a land bridge to Crimea. All the while saying that was the original objective. There has been speculation that he'd ordered his forces to complete the task before the May 9th Victory Day parade in Red Square. With only 25 days until then, it's looking unlikely.

 

I would say Mariupol will fall by then; it almost has now. But to take the remainder of the two Donbass regions, I doubt he could do it in that time, if at all. The rebel held areas are only a smaller portion of those two regions. Putler's forces are trying to take some strategic towns so they can come down from the Kharkov region behind the Ukrainian front lines and cut them off. Then the plan is that they can wipe out the Ukrainian Donbass forces and claim the entirety of both regions. It may not go to plan though. Ukrainian forces have just wiped out a 15klm Russian convoy with their artillery near Izium. My bet is that by May 9, Putin will still only have the rebel held areas he started with, plus the narrow land bridge to Crimea. Not a big win to sell to the public come May 9.

 

Victory Day Parade, 2021:

 

[willedoo]

Victory Day Parade, 2022:

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Interesting clip about foreign volunteers

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av-embeds/61057247

Edited April 14, 2022 by Jerry_Atrick

[willedoo]

Russia confirmed today that the missile cruiser Moskva sank while under tow back to Sevastopol. They're sticking with their story (as they would) that the damage was caused by an onoard fire igniting ammunition. A big coincidence if that is what happened. More believable at this stage is the Ukrainian claim of hitting it with a Neptune anti ship cruise missile. They have a range of 300klm and the Moskva was 60nm south of Odessa in the Black sea. Possibly it was on it's way to bombard Odessa region when it was hit.

 

Unconfirmed reports are that the ship was distracted by a Bayraktar TB2 drone attack when it was hit with the Neptune. Other reports claim two missiles were used. It's a huge loss for Putin; the Moskva is their top warship. It will also make the rest of the Black Sea Fleet a bit nervous losing their flagship.

 

Meanwhile, the Russians are having some setbacks trying to get their forces down the highway from Kharkov region to cut off and surround the Donbass Ukrainian troops. Here's a photo of part of a destroyed Russian convoy that was heading toward Izium. Ukrainian special forces blew the bridge and the rest of the convoy was hit with Tochka-U mobile ballistic missiles. Putin's fooling himself if he thinks the rest of his fall back plan will be easy. The Ukrainians are fighting hard and smart.

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by willedoo

[willedoo]

Only rumours at this stage from sources in Moscow. It's alleged that Russian Defence Minister, Sergei Shoigu has had a massive heart attack and is on life support in ICU. Also said that 20 top generals and their headquarters have been arrested. The story is that since 2014, Putin has allocated funds to prepare for the 'liberation' of Ukraine, and around 10 billion has been embezzled and stolen. As stated, only rumours, but it would explain the sad and sorry state of the Russian Army that the world has now seen. As for Putin, the emperor might be finally starting to realise he's been walking around in the nuddie for a long time instead of those new clothes he thought he had.

Edited April 15, 2022 by willedoo

[old man emu]

12 minutes ago, willedoo said:

As for Putin, the emperor might be finally starting to realise he's been walking around in the nuddie for a long time

Are you saying he's going Peter out?

[kgwilson]

There was bound to be a purge. The Russians are famous for them. Stalin did it & got rid of all the experts & installed the politico in their place. That's one of the reasons that Operation Barbarossa was initially so successful for the Germans.

 

In this case starve the military of quality equipment & training, make a giant f#$%k up & get rid of them for incompetence. Who would like to replace them when the failures keep coming.

 

Putin is slowly backing into a corner he may not have the support long term to get out of.

 

Slava Ukraini.

[willedoo]

And there's more. Vladislav Surkov,  who was Putin's personal advisor on Ukraine until 2020, has been arrested, along with 150 FSB agents. Another prominent character, Arkady Dvorkovich, who is a former deputy prime minister and assistant to the president, has had a criminal case started against him. He wasn't under house arrest and news today is that he and his wife have escaped to Dubai. He has been a prominent critic of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, so the world waits to see if he spills the beans on Putin and whatever mates Putin has left.

[willedoo]

7 minutes ago, old man emu said:

Are you saying he's going Peter out?

It's possible. He was born and bred in Saint Petersburg.

[willedoo]

8 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

There was bound to be a purge. The Russians are famous for them. Stalin did it & got rid of all the experts & installed the politico in their place. That's one of the reasons that Operation Barbarossa was initially so successful for the Germans.

 

In this case starve the military of quality equipment & training, make a giant f#$%k up & get rid of them for incompetence. Who would like to replace them when the failures keep coming.

 

Putin is slowly backing into a corner he may not have the support long term to get out of.

 

Slava Ukraini.

I think we might be about to see something big happen. It could be anyone's guess what state the Kremlin is in two months out from this point. I think Putin is realising he's losing the war and now the revengeful bombing of cities could start. It would be good if he just went away, but I think his ego will tell him to go out with a bang if he has to go.

[willedoo]

Some on topic memes. Fairly accurate, as so far all Putin has achieved is to make Russia the world leper and Ukraine the good guy with the respect of the world.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

The criminal proceedings, arrests and heart failures were coming... I am surprised not more "accidental and natural" deaths have not happened. I am sure they are to come.

 

In an institutional kleptocracy, how can even Putin be surprised of the pilfering that has taken place in his lower ranks? Let's face it, it is what keeps him in power. Those commanding the arresting or "trying", or assisting the fatal effects of others no doubt are also in on the game - why else would they do it? Very few of them would be outright loyal to Putin without wanting some form or reward beyond their basic pay grade.

 

I am so glad we live in democracies where this cannot happen, so our rights are so well preserved (oh, wait, secret trials of whistleblowers, AFP raids and secret detentions, NSW fixated persons units and a dodgy commissioner of police, etc  etc etc).

 

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by Jerry_Atrick

[willedoo]

1 hour ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

The criminal proceedings, arrests and heart failures were coming... I am surprised not more "accidental and natural" deaths have not happened. I am sure they are to come.

The rumour mill has it that Shoigu's alleged heart attack was not from natural causes. That wouldn't surprise anyone. Another unconfirmed story is that Admiral Igor Osipov, commander of the Black Sea Fleet, has been arrested by certain types wearing civilian clothes, with witness reports saying the detention was a bit harsh. They said the admiral's adjutant was belted around a bit. True or not, after losing the Moskva, the admiral's next flagship might be a shark cage.

[Marty_d]

4 hours ago, old man emu said:

Are you saying he's going Peter out?

Peter the Great he ain't.  He's just a little peter.

[onetrack]

Sergei Shoigu disappeared around about March 11, but was seen briefly in a Russian Security Council meeting on Thursday 24th March, after reputedly having had a heart attack between those dates.

But the brief appearance was via Zoom, and Shoigu was not seen to speak.

Shoigu's disappearance is certainly puzzling, he leads Russia's largest political party, "United Russia", which has largely voted for Putin in recent times. But it's quite possible Putin has simply sidelined his Defence Minister, and taken over his powers himself. 

 

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-702360

[nomadpete]

2 hours ago, Marty_d said:

Peter the Great he ain't.  He's just a little peter.

Hey!

 

I resemble that!