Sanctions against Russia

[Jerry_Atrick]

I have had a small "discussion" with a Russian Mafiosa in Abu Dhabi while I was working there. They are not to be messed with and this particular fella made Arnie, in his prime, look smaller and meeker than me, which is no easy task.

 

Unless Russia is devestated, there is no way it will join the west... and I don't think joining the west is necessarily wanted or desired... just that they respect other soverign nations rights to do what they want that is non-threatening.. and it is clear that NATO itself is defensive only.

 

Even if Russia were to join the West, it would be like city folk moving to a very small country town/village.. it will take a long time for them to be accepted as locals and trusted..

[Yenn]

What is Putins aim. Do you think he is trying to win a war against Ukraine or is he really trying to demolish Ukraine. Look at the damage he has done. He may not be in a winning position, but I reckon he is happy to see all the damage and we all know that Russian soldiers are just cannon fodder to the generals and pollies.

He is also stopping the agriculture business of Ukraine and that bodes poorly for a lot of people who have relied on Ukraine for their food supply.

All in all I reckon Putin is doing what he wanted to do and has the world scared stiff that he will go nuclear if cornered. Biden should be telling the world, that if Russia launches a nuclear missile, the USA will not hesitate to retailiate. Maybe that would make the Russian generals bring the situation to something approaching sanity.

[Jerry_Atrick]

30 minutes ago, Yenn said:

Biden should be telling the world, that if Russia launches a nuclear missile, the USA will not hesitate to retailiate. Maybe that would make the Russian generals bring the situation to something approaching sanity.

Agree.. and that should be backed up by the European countries that have Nukes, UK and France...

 

[willedoo]

Over the last few years Putin has become increasingly irrational. His paranoia about NATO invading Russia is ridiculous, and defies all logic. Why would NATO have any desire to invade Russia with a conventional force, knowing well that it would lead to a world destroying nuclear conflict. NATO countries have plenty of rich, productive land of their own. Their economy is much bigger than Russia's, their standard of living is much better, and pre Ukraine war, happily traded with Russia to their own benefit. Why would the NATO countries act like lemmings and jump off the nuclear cliff. Where's the gain? The only conclusion is that Putin has finally gone completely mad. Not the first time a nutty dictator has tried to wreck the world.

[willedoo]

Last night I saw a video clip of a Russian tank being hit by artillery. It was taken at close range by a phone camera. There's been lots of photos in the media of tanks with their turrets popped off, but I didn't realise how high the turrets blow. This one popped like a cork on a champagne bottle and must have gone at least a hundred feet in the air once the onboard munitions blew. It would only be the asymmetric weight of the gun barrel stopping it from going higher.

[willedoo]

The first war crimes trial has started in Kiev. A 21 year old Russian soldier is accused of killing an unarmed 62-year-old civilian on February 28, firing an automatic rifle from a car window in Sumy region of Ukraine.

[willedoo]

Here's some more images of the disastrous Russian crossing of the Siverskyi Donets River. Some counts are putting the Russian losses at more than seventy vehicles, armoured fighting vehicles and tanks. It would represent a battalion tactical group and supporting elements. Looking at the carnage, there wouldn't be too many survivors, so the casualties could be in the hundreds. It's shaping up to be one of the biggest single defeats for the Russians so far. It's more than 1% of the Russian fighting forces in Ukraine wiped out in one hit.

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

1 hour ago, willedoo said:

Last night I saw a video clip of a Russian tank being hit by artillery. It was taken at close range by a phone camera.

Couldn't reist.. that is one hell of a telephone to take out a tank at close range.. sorry! 😉

 

1 hour ago, willedoo said:

Here's some more images of the disastrous Russian crossing of the Siverskyi Donets River. Some counts are putting the Russian losses at more than seventy vehicles, armoured fighting vehicles and tanks. It would represent a battalion tactical group and supporting elements. Looking at the carnage, there wouldn't be too many survivors, so the casualties could be in the hundreds. It's shaping up to be one of the biggest single defeats for the Russians so far. It's more than 1% of the Russian fighting forces in Ukraine wiped out in one hit.

 

 

Sitting ducks.. have to feel for them a bit..

 

1 hour ago, willedoo said:

The first war crimes trial has started in Kiev. A 21 year old Russian soldier is accused of killing an unarmed 62-year-old civilian on February 28, firing an automatic rifle from a car window in Sumy region of Ukraine.

Why am I uncomfortable that the war crimes hearing is taking place in Kiev and tried by Ukrainians? Subjectivity and bias creep in... Can they not liaise with the ICC and see what to do?

[kgwilson]

I don't think Putins aim has changed. He believes that the Ukraine is part of Russia & should never have been allowed its independence after the fall of the Soviet Union. The East has a lot of Russian speaking people and there are hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians living in Russia or vice versa. It has been this way for centuries and the Ukranians have always fought for their independence and although they were briefly recognised as a sovereign nation in 1917, factional fighting and eventual conquest by the Bolsheviks sealed their fate till the breakup of the Soviet Union in 1991.

 

Stalins collectives in Russia failed and he just took the grain from Ukraine and starved the population in 1931/32. Somewhere between 5 & 8 million people perished due to starvation. Putin doesn't care about that and it is irrelevant as far as he is concerned. Ukraine belongs to Russia in his eyes. I don't think he is doing this for any commercial benefit. Getting all the agricultural lands and industrial infrastructure would just be financial collateral.

 

Ukrainian nationalism really came to the fore with the overthow of the Kremlin friendly Yanukovich government in 2014. This was the start of it all for Putin & of course he then seized the Crimea & tried to take the Donbas. He has just failed to recognise fierce Ukrainian nationalism. It has been bubbling under the surface for centuries but after 30 years of independence and a taste of Western style freedom they will not let it go now.

 

Putin will likely never recognise this even after he is deposed, or disposed of.

[willedoo]

1 hour ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

Sitting ducks.. have to feel for them a bit..

From a human point of view, I guess. The reality is though, if they weren't wiped out they'd go on to kill a lot of Ukrainians on Ukrainian soil.

[nomadpete]

4 hours ago, willedoo said:

 

 

I don't claim this is true, or maybe tainted by propaganda.

But it shows a probable frightening new trend in combat.

 

Sorry but I couldn't edit out the empty text box at top of this post

 

Edited May 13, 2022 by nomadpete

[Jerry_Atrick]

I think the troops in the car were unlucky as they sort of backed into allowing the drone through the sunroof... But, yes, they are easily deployed.. There was a vid that @Phil Perry put up some time ago, which was an army of drones with AI and small ballistics that wwas used to identify and killl student dissenters. It was a dramatisation made by a British uiniversity, in which they called for international regulation of drones, however, in war time, who is going to pay heed to those sorts of regulations?

[Jerry_Atrick]

2 hours ago, willedoo said:

From a human point of view, I guess. The reality is though, if they weren't wiped out they'd go on to kill a lot of Ukrainians on Ukrainian soil.

I agre with that, but only because their commanders would command them to.. and the same commanders made them sitting ducks..

[old man emu]

The use on the battlefield of what were "toys", controlled by video from afar,  gives a whole new meaning to "Armchair General", and Napoleon's "Every French soldier carries a marshal’s baton in his knapsack."

 

[kgwilson]

8 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

I think the troops in the car were unlucky as they sort of backed into allowing the drone through the sunroof... But, yes, they are easily deployed.. There was a vid that @Phil Perry put up some time ago, which was an army of drones with AI and small ballistics that wwas used to identify and killl student dissenters. It was a dramatisation made by a British uiniversity, in which they called for international regulation of drones, however, in war time, who is going to pay heed to those sorts of regulations?

I think that was the 7 minute clip called Slaughterbots and was made 3 years ago. It was a futuristic look at what is possible with existing technology. It is scary stuff. Now all they need is a delivery of these to the Kremlin targeting Putin and the red button pushers.

 

 

[willedoo]

I don't think he's gone the full Bernie, but his absence was notable at the May 9 Victory Day Parade. I suppose it wouldn't have been a good look to have the Army's Chief of Staff on crutches if the claims of his wounding are true.

[onetrack]

Apparently, the Ukrainians are starting to see success in downing Russian aircraft with the British Starstreak MANPAD. The Starstreak can reach Mach 4, has a range of 7km, and is very portable.

It uses low-smoke rocket fuel, so that launch sites are not easily spotted by the enemy. It's reported the Starstreak is considerably more effective than the U.S. Stinger MANPAD, which has a lower speed and a shorter range.

The Starstreak has been issued to the British military since 1997, but has been not previously been used in real combat conditions. It is Laser-guided so it's not affected by interception, as with radar-controlled missiles and rockets.

The Ukrainians have recorded themselves taking down a Russian helicopter and a Russian drone with the Starstreak. First shipments of the Starstreak only arrived in the Ukraine in mid-March, and reportedly, it takes 3 weeks to train a Starstreak operator. I would guess language problems are possibly the greatest hindrance to training and use.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/british-starstreak-missile-is-shooting-down-russian-helicopters-in-ukraine-2022-5

 

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/news/belfast-made-missile-downs-russian-chopper-in-ukraine-41514566.html

[onetrack]

Here's the information on the Russian drone takedown with a Starstreak MANPAD.

 

https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/british_manpads_debuted_in_ukraines_war_against_russia_occupiers_air_target_was_hit_by_starstreak_for_the_first_time-2508.html

[willedoo]

The Russian disaster at the Siverskyi Donets River is getting curiouser and curiouser. The count is now up to 82 lost machines, including 14 T-72 main battle tanks. A new photo has emerged, taken later than the ones previously posted. It shows quite a few more tanks in the river with turrets reversed (retreat mode). They've been purposely driven into the river. There's speculation whether they were trying to get back across the river and in the panic, had no time to erect snorkels. The other theory is they were trying to scuttle the tanks and then swim for it.

 

It brings back memories of the old WW2 joke about how many gears does an Italian tank have.

Edited May 14, 2022 by willedoo

[onetrack]

The Ukrainians claim the following enemy losses up to the latest figures today, the 80th day of the War ....

 

Russian troops killed - 27,200

Russian tanks destroyed - 1,218

Russian AFV's destroyed - 2,934

Russian artillery pieces destroyed - 551

Russian MLRS (Multiple Rocket Launch System) destroyed - 195

Russian AA Warfare Systems destroyed - 88

Russian aircraft destroyed - 200

Russian helicopters destroyed - 163

Russian vehicles and fuel tanks destroyed - 2059

Russian Warships and boats - 13

Russian UAV's destroyed - 411

Russian "Special Equipment" destroyed - 42

Russian "Cruise" missiles destroyed - 95

 

Even if the Ukrainians are exaggerating Russian losses (which is likely), there's still little doubt the Ukrainians have exacted a heavy toll on the Russian military, and it will take them a long time to rebuild.

 

https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/videos/1439112733203945/

[willedoo]

The river crossing goes to show how ad hoc and wasteful the Russian tactics are. They've sent a couple of battalion groups and their armour into harm's way without air cover and the support of artillery. Just sitting ducks hoping for a good outcome. The unprofessionalism of the Russian military is mind boggling.

[willedoo]

Another factor might be the pressure from above to produce a marketable win. Even though that gain might not be logistically possible, they might be forced into these stupid actions. Remember the Soviet soldiers in WW2 charging the Germans without rifles.

[kgwilson]

In Stalingrad I believe the Soviets lost about a million people but that was a resource they had a lot of. I think it was in the movie "Enemy at the Gates" where it was displayed when Soviet troops crossed the Volga without weapons they were told to run forward & pick up the rifle from the person who fell in front of them. They apparently killed more of their own people than the US lost in the entire war.

[willedoo]

The big boys are in town. I wonder if our six are are in use yet.

[willedoo]

Another handy bit of kit will be the seven Pzh2000 155mm self propelled howitzers Germany has given to Ukraine. Depending on the rounds, their range starts at 30klm and goes out to a maximum 67klm with rocket assisted projectiles. That range would get the Russian command posts sweating.