Sanctions against Russia

[Bruce Tuncks]

Putin sure seemed sincere but now we know he was lying.

Here's something I don't understand... Why can the Russian helicopters operate when the Ukranians would have lots of stinger missiles ?

[Yenn]

To answer your question, think Afghanistan.

[Jerry_Atrick]

A new raft of government sanctions from the EU, US, and UK (with presumably Canada, Aus, NZ, etc jumping in) includes banning a number if Russian banks from the Swift payment system. Wow! That will show them.. except that it is not all banks.. and therefore those that are banned will use internal payment messaging gateways to transact with other Russian banks that haven't been banned, actually making it harder to track source of payments, and, oh, I dunno, money laundering and other nefarious activities. For those banks that are cut off, it will add a couple of Rubles, I guess, to their transaction costs.. ironically, with the falling rouble, the marginal cost increase of an international payment will be bu££er all!

 

So, another hollow sanction of little real impact...

 

A government (though no longer senior) MP came out yesterday saying that a no-fly zone should have been established over the Ukraine before the invasion.. Of course, that may have inflamed things, too, but with 20-20 hindsight and no planning, I guess these little nuggets will emerge.

 

If the west was serious about Ukraine, they could have militarily helped under the leadership of a country or supranational power - without NATO officially getting involved.

 

With friends like western allies, who needs enemies?

 

[edit]

Privately, large corporations are getting in on the act. BP has announced it will be selling its stake in Rosneft.. Although Kwasi Kwarteng (I think that is his name), who is the Business minister claims credit for it, BP announced it to the Rosneft board before the invasion actually began. Many companies are banning sale of Russian products, of which I guess the highest volume is vodka; I don't think too many people will notice the caviar being taken off the shelves. Some European airlines apparently have dropped Russia from their routes as well. There is discussion about Russia being excluded from European soccer (Champions League final is due to be played in St. Petersberg).

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Jerry_Atrick

[octave]

Although this pales into insignificants compared to the human tragedy, it is sad to see the end of this engineering marvel. 

 

 Mriya, The World's Largest Plane, Has Been Destroyed by Russia's Strikes on Ukraine 

[Old Koreelah]

Putin’s legacy will be destruction and suffering.

[nomadpete]

Didn't they say that about a certain US president who invaded Iraq, causing countless civilian deaths ?

[Jerry_Atrick]

Yep.. and it is his legacy, too...

[nomadpete]

Concluding from that, the two biggest current nuclear powers of our humble world, are noted for being led by (at any given time)  the two biggest egosticial psychopaths at any given time.

 

Now, moving that thought on.......

 

The two biggest economies in the world (not thinking that Russia is any longer one of them), both arrogantly believe that they can control all the other economies for their own advantage. And because of their arrogance, how long before they fall?

 

Personally, in spite of my geographical separation from their interests, I am not comfortable being here to witness the outcomes.

Edited February 28, 2022 by nomadpete

[Bruce Tuncks]

Out PM told people to " not return to fight in the Ukraine because they will be easily killed by the russians".

Yet, I thought a proper anti-tank missile launched almost point-blank, say from a window on a roadway house, would disable a tank.

Our PM gave an example of a stupid volunteer shooting at a tank with a gun.

AND I have noticed Russian planes which are not evading stingers all the time...  how come?

[willedoo]

Video footage of the attacking helicopters at Kiev showed them firing lots of countermesures or chaff as they call it. It would be a big problem if you run out. I think the stinger has about 4klm range. I recon it would be a lot easier to hit a chopper than a fast moving jet. But I think the stinger is very fast as well.

[willedoo]

I think this will go down in history as the beginning of the end of Putin's career. What little reputation and respect he had left has been totally trashed by his actions. From this point onward, his word won't be trusted by anyone around the world. In the past, he's had good judgement on occasions, but this beggars belief. It's like something Hitler would do. He's played a smart game until now, but this looks like he's lost the plot.

[facthunter]

I reckon he's snapped. Dog knows what he'll do. Plenty of highly skilled people just leave Russia. To behave like he does you need an Iron curtain to keep people in.. Be interesting to know what his personal wealth is.  Trump thinks he's a beaut bloke and very clever.. The day deceiving People is clever should never come.. Losing his Karate PATRON will bother him.. Nev

[Bruce Tuncks]

I still worry about the foxbat factory...  I am a Jabiru guy, but they are our sort of people and I would rather make a direct donation than go through some organization which may pay executive wages with my money.

[pmccarthy]

Aeroprakt already have my donation, I hope it materialises as an aircraft!

[Marty_d]

7 hours ago, willedoo said:

I think this will go down in history as the beginning of the end of Putin's career. What little reputation and respect he had left has been totally trashed by his actions. From this point onward, his word won't be trusted by anyone around the world. In the past, he's had good judgement on occasions, but this beggars belief. It's like something Hitler would do. He's played a smart game until now, but this looks like he's lost the plot.

Apart from 4 years, where he was the puppet-master to the president, he's been in charge of Russia since 1999.  That's 23 years - enough to develop a god complex and slip totally out of touch with public opinion and his days as a broke taxi driver.

I have a suspicion that the lower ranks of the Russian army (ie the ones who actually do the fighting) won't be as keen to attack their Ukrainian cousins who have so much in common with them.  It's like us invading NZ.

Whereas the Ukrainians have their backs against the wall, a popular leader, and a beloved homeland to defend.  They're going to be a hundred times as motivated as the Russians.

Not sure it'll make a difference in the end, but I don't think it's going to be the quick win that Putin hoped it was going to be.

[Jerry_Atrick]

I don't think Putin was particularly smart - more the west was dumb and, as with China, put a lot of eggs in the basket that would give them cheap access to consumables - in this case, energy at the cost of dealing and/or risk managing dealing with volatile regimes. In fact, a blemish on Merkel's record is, despite the way he had personally bullied her in meetings by bringing one of his dogs to a meeting knowing she had an irrational fear of dogs, acquiescing to the Nord Stream 2, rather than seeking alternatives. I have read that Australia still has the capacity to fill the vacuum of gas - yes it would have to be shipped and be more expensive (but on a marginal basis, not that much more expensive per unit and certainly cheaper than now.

 

According to news reports (and with that caveat), the junior Russian military have been duped. As conscripts, apparently by law, they are not allowed to operate outside the country. According to news, they were told they would be going to the Crimea on exercises but were somehow tricked into signing regular army contracts so they could be dispatched accordingly. Also, apparently, they were told there would be mainly a population of Russian loyalists waving flags and welcoming them.

 

Bruce is right - 23 years at the helm will remove one from reality. There was a psychologtist on the radio saying that power, especially utlimtate power is shown to go to the head and results in, narcissism (where have we seen that before?). He is apparently more and more removed from real life. Sadly, while everyone is saying Putin started this and he can end it.. I don't think he can.. his mindset is he is in it come what may.

 

Kudos to the Ukranians for thwarting what was seen to be a walkover, I think by the west as well as the Russians. But, Russia is now sending in reinforcements.. It is going to get very ugly...  There are already reports of cluster and vacuum bombs being used against civilian targets. And as Putin is backed into a corner, the threat of nuclear and biological warfare has to be in the forefront of his mind.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I just read that apparently ex-SAS and paras (UK) have signed up to assist the Ukrainian armed forces.

 

Ukraine has requested the implementation of a no-fly zone.. so far not forthcoming.

[nomadpete]

I'm concerned that Mr Putin seems to be an over confident egotist. It looks like his attack on Ukrane is not going as swiftly as he expected. Even though his forces vastly outnumber the Ukranians. The longer it takes, the more it tarnishes his reputation. Will his ego allow that? He has the big red nuclear button, will he have a hissy fit and press it? Is he so obsessed that like a naughty child, he will say 'If I can't have it, nobody can!' ?

If he does that how will the other players respond? For instance, US said they won't send troops, but thay didn't say they won't send ICBM's.

[old man emu]

5 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

I just read that apparently ex-SAS and paras (UK) have signed up to assist the Ukrainian armed forces.

There is talk that young Ukrainians in Australia are planning to go there to join in the "defence of their Motherland". As honourable as that seems, if they are Australian citizens, which these young people no doubt are, then isn't it illegal under Australian law to do that? Or does that law only apply if you are going to join a group that the Government doesn't like?

[Jerry_Atrick]

My understanding is that Australian law allows Australians to serve as bona fide armed services of a UN recognised country. This is obviously subject to other laws, e.g. if one is  a member of the Aussie armed forces and desert, then they will be guilty of desertion. However, if they do not join a bonfa fide armed force (e.g. a resistance movement, militia, etc), then that will be an offence (not sure if it is sedition or treason).

 

Conversely, Aussies can join the Russian armed forces, too.

 

[old man emu]

24 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

Conversely, Aussies can join the Russian armed forces, too.

Strewth, don't bring that up! Otherwise we'll be having battles in our suburbs between immigrants from both sides. It's bad enough when the soccer teams of Serbian and Czech clubs meet on the football pitch.

[Yenn]

Putin does not have to win a popularity contest with the world, he has to look good to Russians and for that he controls the Russian media.

[facthunter]

Currently IF you don't like him you get shunted off to the clink or work in some $#!T job. You can't keep that one up forever. Everything is on view in today's world.. Nev

[Marty_d]

Russia is no stranger to hostile takeovers at the top level.  If he's seen as ruining their fortunes, he may cop a metaphorical (or literal) knife in the back from one of his sycophants.

[facthunter]

America would surely have the record of presidents assassinated.  There were attempts on Hitler who Putin seems to  more resemble as time passes. "Somehow" the FIX has to come from within Russia.. This is Putins plan not Russia's plan.. Nev