Sanctions against Russia

[red750]

Some years ago they made a movie called THE RUSSIANS ARE COMING, THE RUSSIANS ARE COMING. It might be time to make a movie called THE RUSSIANS ARE RUNNING, THE RUSSIANS ARE RUNNING.

[rgmwa]

They're Rushin' all over the place judging by what the Ukrainians are saying.

[Marty_d]

Looks like the Russian bear has gone from this

 

to this.

 

[red750]

Russia's fury at Volensky's speech to the Lowy Institute:

 

https://au.yahoo.com/news/ukraines-un-request-australia-101149571.html

[red750]

Video of Russian armoured vehicle with white flag surrendering to Ukranian troops.

 

https://au.yahoo.com/news/watch-russian-troops-fix-white-124318566.html

[willedoo]

7 hours ago, red750 said:

Video of Russian armoured vehicle with white flag surrendering to Ukranian troops.

 

https://au.yahoo.com/news/watch-russian-troops-fix-white-124318566.html

This one I'm very doubtful about. When I first saw it on Twitter a day or two ago, my first impression was that it was staged. Possibly done by the information/disinformation department to leak to social media as a way to encourage Russians to surrender.

 

The reasons why I think it's staged:

The filming is not done with a bodycam and appears to be filmed with a proper camera and not a phone camera, which would be a lot more shaky.

The Ukrainian group are initially all taking good cover behind a bank while the cameraman appears to be higher up and possibly exposed.

Check the leg work, they all move around a bit unnaturally in my opinion.

Not one of them has any identifying shoulder parches or coloured tape around sleeves or legs.

Their uniforms and gear don't have a speck of dirt on them and look straight off the shelf.

Half of them are wearing brand new perfectly clean suede boots.

The Russian armoured vehicle doesn't have the usual large identifying markings on it; the only symbol is a very small Z on the right hand rear side.

All three Russian crew members are wearing full face balaclavas and you don't see their faces . A couple of them are also wearing dark glasses. If it is staged, the Ukrainian actors would be fairly quickly identified on social media if the showed their faces.

In general, the movement and body language of both the Ukrainian team and the Russian crew is more consistent with a staged show rather than what usually happens in those situations.

The leader of the Ukrainian team giving the hand signals looks and acts more like a nancy boy than the leader of a combat squad.

 

I could be wrong, but nothing about it looks natural to me and is not consistent with the usual type of combat footage you see on social media. The thing I picked straight away that got me suspicious was the new boots. Not even a scuff mark on them.

Edited October 7, 2022 by willedoo

[willedoo]

Speaking of social media, things have been a bit quiet for the last 24 hours or more. Possibly a couple of reasons - some military people have asked for people on social media to cool it for a while, as they are concerned about operational security. The other reason could be that Ukrainian forces on both fronts have been regrouping. I guess you can only push so far until you stretch the logistic lines. The also have to evacuate wounded, re-equip and rotate in reserves.

[willedoo]

Ukraine has received M30A1 munitions for the long range HIMARS. The rounds are basically a big shotgun shell containing 182,000 tungsten ball bearings to take out troop concentrations and soft skinned vehicles. They can be programmed to air burst overhead of enemy troops. In the old days, they had fragmenting cannon balls that would do the same thing. A timed fuse would explode the ball over the heads of enemy troops, releasing smaller shot inside the cannon ball. I think if I was a Russian, I'd just surrender now. Things are about to get a lot worse.

[Old Koreelah]

Something human seem to excell at: coming up with ever more efficient ways to maim and slaughter our own species.

[willedoo]

Ukraine has been running and advertising a hotline for Russian troops who want to surrender. Yesterday there was a video on Twitter where a Ukrainian serviceman involved was saying the hotline is overloaded. Sounds like they are having trouble taking all the calls. Mobilised troops have started to show up in the front lines which might also be a factor in the increasing surrenders.

[onetrack]

Flechettes are one of the cruellest inventions that modern military weapons designers ever produced - and the Geneva Convention banned them. But they still appear regularly in wars.

I cannot understand the mindset of someone designing a weapon to inflict as much cruelty on enemy personnel as possible - but I guess it's only a small step further on, than just designing highly destructive weaponry, full stop.

[onetrack]

The discussions and concerns initiated by the Ukrainians is what a humanitarian and economic problem they are going to end up with, when the Russian POW numbers become overwhelming for the Ukrainians. They have to house and feed and guard them in increasing numbers - something the Ukrainians will be struggling to do, because they do not have the resources in either funds or personnel.

 

They will really have little option but to keep them for a short time, try to educate them to spread the message back home that Russian is on a losing wicket, and then let them go.

[willedoo]

Ukraine might end up with a lot more POWs than what Russia is holding. A certain amount of prisoner swaps might happen, but returning Ukrainian POWs get welcomed home as heros whereas returning Russians are treated as traitors and cowards by their government. It's straight out of Stalin's WW2 operating manual. They say the Russian prisoners are treated better as POWs in Ukraine than their own army treats them.

[willedoo]

Which comes down to a basic military principle - you can't expect troops to give their best if you don't treat them well and give them some respect.

[onetrack]

Yes, I'd imagine a lot of Russian POW's are fearful of going home, knowing full well they'll more than likely be jailed, generally mistreated, or even shot as deserters. 

There are stories of Russian POW's being in contact with family and friends back home, and being told their funeral has already been arranged.

[facthunter]

People fight hard when their Territory is at stake from an oppressor. Putin seems to be hooked on inflicting Pain,  murdering people and smashing property. He's one sick power hungry psycho. Nev

[willedoo]

I'd have to double check it but I think the recent Russian legislation introduced provides for jail time for surrendering. I'd assume they mean surrendering when not ordered by superiors to do so. 

[facthunter]

Such actions only motivate the Ukrainians more to resist a life under Putin's control.   Nev

[willedoo]

3 minutes ago, facthunter said:

People fight hard when their Territory is at stake from an oppressor. Putin seems to be hooked on inflicting Pain,  murdering people and smashing property. He's one sick power hungry psycho. Nev

That's right Nev. A big imbalance in motivation to fight. A Ukrainian is fighting for independence, freedom and safety of family. The best a Russian can achieve in the war is to get home in one piece with a looted laptop or two.

[Yenn]

This all sounds as if Ukraine is winning the war and Putin will eventually fade away, but in  my opinion that is not going to happen. Putin has proposed using nuclear and Biden has mouthed a few words but nothing serious. Remember Biden did not say USA would do anything if Putin attacked, back in Feb. Biden and the UN are useless and they will either fold under Putins pressure or let him use nuclear and continue wringing their hands and wailing Woe, Woe.

It is time for someone to stand up and say, "If you use nuclear weapons, you will die", but where is that person.

In 1939 Britain told Hitler that if he invaded Poland they would be at war. Hitler didn't take notice, because Britain and the rest of Europe had appeared weak before. Now it is the UN and USA that look weak. Not only look weak, but from their record they are weak.

[facthunter]

It's Putin that looks and IS weak. The whole show was ill advised from the start and He's now wounded and cornered. and desperate and MAD... Nev

[Bruce Tuncks]

I sure hope you are wrong Yenn about Putin feeling free to use nukes. I reckon he might try, but would need underlings to be seriously on side, that is the underlings need to believe that they will only have hours to live if they unleash a nuke.

If this is the case, they might not be so much on putins side after all.

[nomadpete]

Yenn, sadly, I agree with you. As this conflict drags on, the number of possible outcomes get fewer but less palatable.

No matter who gets called 'winner', the recovery process for Ukraine will be miserable, and the ongoing suffering by the people will drag on for decades.

 

When Putin runs out of other options and he sends over the first nuclear bomb, even if there is only one of them, it will create uninhabitable land - neither the Russians nor anybody else can use that patch of land.

It is plain that it won't stop the Ukrainians from fighting anyway. Probably the west will collectively wring its hands and do little to stop it all. And the atrocities and suffering (by both sides) will keep going on.

[Bruce Tuncks]

AND, what good would it do even for putin to turn Ukraine into a radioactive wasteland?

Will he get his own troops out first?

[nomadpete]

I doubt that Putin cares one jot for the wellfare of his troops - after all they have failed him and he is not the forgiving type.

He also is quite prepared to level the entire Ukraine - as his stated goal is to make that land part of Russia. He never said anything about the Ukrainians being a particularly important part of his plan.