Sanctions against Russia

[willedoo]

11 minutes ago, facthunter said:

I agree but I think it was Gorbachov  who gave away Russia's warm water port. Russia has had some real dickhead US presidents to deal with. Nev

After the revolution in 1921, Crimea was an Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic within the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic. It was downgraded to an Oblast within the RSFSR in 1945, and transferred to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic in 1954 when Khrushchev was leader of the USSR. Nothing to do with Gorbachev as far as I know..

[facthunter]

I think Gorby gets blamed for it and I  recall at the time thinking that's a bit rough. Nev

[willedoo]

30 minutes ago, facthunter said:

I think Gorby gets blamed for it and I  recall at the time thinking that's a bit rough. Nev

Poor old Gorby got blamed for nearly everything. I think he was just trying to do the right thing.

[willedoo]

Putin on the Crimean bridge attack - "There is no doubt we're dealing with an act of terror, aimed at the destruction of Russia's critical civilian infrastructure."

 

They must be all civilian tanks in this screengrab:

 

[willedoo]

Steven Seagal’s love affair with Putler is a strong as ever.

 

https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1579196586856681473

 

[facthunter]

Putin's double value hypocrisy knows no limits. Ukrainian Civilians are what?? Non humans? expendable? 

[willedoo]

He's been bombing civilian areas of Kiev all day with missiles air launched from bombers. There are some reports of kamikaze drones as well. It started this morning during peak hour traffic to cause maximum casualties.

 

I find it incredible that a proven war criminal gets to attend the G20 next month. Problem is, he has enough mates in the G20 to not get booted out like he was from the G8.

[Jerry_Atrick]

The inevitable has happened and there have been missile attacks on the large cities in retriubution (Wille - you beat me to it)..

 

At first I could not believe we has allowed to the G20, but Indonesia is a very smart country.. If you expell someone, you can't bring pressure on them as you will just alienate them more. And the G20 does have some friends of Russia, but Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, now Turkey, UK, US, and EU are certainly not friends. And I am unsure of South Africa, Soth Korea (doubt they are firends), Spain (permanent guest). India is cordial, at best. So, I would not say he has a lot of real friends there.

 

Also, Ukraine was invited and apparently, Zelensky is going. Very clever move, as it will basically force discussion. Russia's biggest ally is China, and it may polarise things a bit more.. Bit of fun coming on: https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/asia/2022/10/07/g20-indonesia-prepares-to-host-ukrainian-and-russian-leaders-at-bali-summit/

 

At least they get to sing, "I'vve been to Bali, too!".

 

[facthunter]

Putin is just a thug and a murderer. I'd like to see him in a fair fight where he got well and truly done over Underneath I reckon he's a psycho coward... His lot usually are. Nev

[facthunter]

Oh and an outright LIAR. The whole Russian group LIED to the UN 6 months ago. Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

5 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Putin is just a thug and a murderer. I'd like to see him in a fair fight where he got well and truly done over Underneath I reckon he's a psycho coward... His lot usually are. Nev

Agreed, which is why I think it is was a good idea not to kick him out of the G20 and invite Zelensky. It will be close as you will get to a fight Putin will take part in, and not on his home turf. Of course, they will be kept apart, but the proceedings as a whole should provide plenty of entertainment..

[willedoo]

1 hour ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

And I am unsure of South Africa, Soth Korea (doubt they are firends), Spain (permanent guest). India is cordial, at best. So, I would not say he has a lot of real friends there.

Out of the G20 nations, Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa make up the BRICS grouping of nations. In the U.N. vote to condemn Russia over the invasion, China, India and South Africa abstained. Brazil broke the mould and voted yes. I would guess that would be because the pro American Bolsonaro has come on the scene.

 

Putin might not have a lot of really good mates like China in the G20, but I think there's a lot who have economic ties and would abstain in a vote. Indonesia wouldn't want to rock the boat, and countries like Saudi Arabia and Turkey have a bob each way as they make a lot of money from Russia. I don't know how France would go. If Macron had his way, Ukraine would have rolled over in a peace deal a long time ago. I get the feeling of appeasement from France.

[Old Koreelah]

I can’t see Crimea being given back to Ukraine- too much historic and ethnic baggage. Let’s hope it get some sort of special neutral identity.

[Bruce Tuncks]

But the port is no good if the Turks are going to stop you using the Dardanelles. I was amazed that Turkey is a member of Nato but they still won't allow Nato to use the Dardanelles.

[red750]

Well. That filthy mongrel has let loose his wrath. 75 rockets launched against Ukraine, aimed at bridges, playgrounds, anywhere he can cause the most carnage. At least 19 dead. Ukraine defences managed to knock out 41 of the missiles.

[red750]

Belarus has joined forces with Putin against Ukraine.

 

https://au.yahoo.com/news/rogue-nation-joins-ukraine-war-in-alarming-escalation-214521401.html

[Bruce Tuncks]

Are Belarus soldiers going to attack?

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Old K, your thoughts about Crimea are sensible, but I think the legality is that it "belongs" to Ukraine.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I wonder why Putin has not been challenged by a Ukrainian granny for a duel in an open paddock , both with AK 47's.

Well Putin would ignore it I know ( the challenge ) what with his 50,000 strong "protective service" and all, but would the conscript soldiers like having Putin called out as a coward? After his macho image presentations?

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

I tried to find out what other countries are doing against corruption, now that Russia has shown us just how weakening corruption is. The only country that seems to take anti-corruption seriously is the Chinese...  Have I missed stuff here?

[nomadpete]

In the parlance of dictatorships, "corruption" refers to anything that harms the dictatorship. Xi has, and until now, Putin has controlled the narrative to the people. Outsiders see it as corruption, insiders see it as 'success'.

 

The only fear that is held by dictatorships, democrazies, and corporations, is

 

---TRANSPARENCY---

 

For proof of this, just look at what happens to whistleblowers!

Edited October 10, 2022 by nomadpete

[kgwilson]

Crimea is likely to stay Russian unless there is a regime change and the Nuclear threat disappears. Nato could totally destroy the Russian military with a planned offensive in a very short time. It has overwhelming numbers, modern equipment, strategic & logistics plans that have been well tested and there is little corruption.

 

Nothing will change unless Putin and his henchmen are eventually deposed and a new democratic regime arises from the ashes. Given Russias history of autocracy, violence and corruption that is a super long bow.

[facthunter]

I don't thing Macron is weak.  He knows the futility and damage of war and that a deal has to be a part of  the ending any war. HE probably now realises the Putin is in NO WAY Rational.  Nev

[kgwilson]

I am sure that Ukraine would have anticipated the missile attack on civilian targets after the humiliating bridge strike. This is pure Putin & his regimes complete disregard for innocent people and is just an extension on what they have been doing since the beginning. He know he can never win this war but is determined to destroy everything and anything to keep his tenuous position & bolster is waning support at every opportunity. Now Russia has used a lot more of it's short supply of missiles & more than half of them didn't make it to the target, none of which were military targets.

 

History has shown that targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure does nothing to weaken your adversary. What it does is harden their resolve as occurred in Britain during the Blitz and also in Germany during the bombings from 1942-45. Most German civilians were collateral damage except for the raids on Hamburg & Dresden.

Edited October 11, 2022 by kgwilson

[willedoo]

6 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

But the port is no good if the Turks are going to stop you using the Dardanelles. I was amazed that Turkey is a member of Nato but they still won't allow Nato to use the Dardanelles.

Bruce, Turkey is bound by the internationally signed Montreux Convention for shipping through the straits. It guarantees civilian shipping and places restrictions on military vessels passing through the Bosphorus Strait. In peacetime, military vessels are limited according to numbers, size, type of weapons and length of stay in the Black Sea. NATO ships are allowed in under those restrictions. American, British and French war ships visit regularly and use a port in Romania as a base during their stay in the Black Sea.

 

During wartime, If Turkey is not at war, ships of the nations at war can't pass through the Straits unless they are returning to their base. When the war started, Turkey went beyond the Montreux Convention and closed the Straits to all military ships. So at the moment, Russia can't reinforce the Black Sea Fleet with any ships that have to enter via Turkish waters. If Turkey is at war or feels threatened by war, they are allowed to close the Straights to all military vessels.

 

Maybe this time, they thought any more warships entering the Black Sea would escalate things. Turkey seems to be the odd one out in NATO. I recon they're always having a bob each way, sitting on both sides of the fence.