Sanctions against Russia

[willedoo]

Poland's PM has said they might be transferring their MiG-29's to Ukraine in 4 to 6 weeks; they have 29 of them. Slovakia has also said they are ready to transfer their ten Mig-29's. The Polish MiGs are the original MiG-29A models, ex Luftwaffe donated to Poland some time back. They were from the original East German MiG-29 squadron that was purchased from the Soviets not long before the collapse of the USSR. I recon they would have had a few upgrades since then.

 

When the East German airforce was absorbed into the Luftwaffe, the MiG-29's had the only operational helmet mounted targeting system. Combined with the Archer missile that could hit targets 40 degrees off boresight, it was better than any air to air missile system NATO had at the time. The aircraft itself had a few drawbacks and lack of compatibility with NATO systems used by the Luftwaffe. One of them was no provision for droptanks, so they were restricted to about 150klm operating radius. Communications were also a problem.

[willedoo]

21 minutes ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Well this partly explained something I've wondered about....  in WW2, there was a tiger-moth school at Port Pirie where they killed 5% of their trainees

That's 1 in 20 trainees.

[willedoo]

There seems to be an element in the U.S. Republicans that are against providing military aid to Ukraine. Probably Ukraine's worst nightmare would be Trump being elected if the war is still going at that time. I don't understand those Republicans; spending 5% of the annual military budget to destroy half of Russia's conventional military capability sounds like a bargain to me.

 

And that's without putting U.S. boots on the ground in Ukraine.

Edited March 15, 2023 by willedoo

[rgmwa]

Both Trump and De Santis would be bad for Ukraine.  De Santis doesn't believe that Ukraine's problems are an issue for the US either.  At least Nikki Haley takes the conflict seriously, although who knows what else she stands for.

[facthunter]

Apart from making sure people can get more guns than anybody needs, what else do they stand for?  Up till now Trump used to vote Democrat. HE doesn't care a fig what happens to any Party. According to him anyone in the SYSTEM is the problem and the service people are suckers and losers. CIA, FBI etc are crooks and fakes HE is the only one who can MAGA and about 38% of American voters believe that, as incredible as it is. IF he ever gets back in most think he will give a priority to "GETTING" those who let him down (in HIS mind) HE says HE has DIRT on all of them. This is the person who would be POTUS again. and IF he was BAD last time you ain't seen nothin yet. The next time will show you. He's promised to NUKE IRAN from the face of the earth and that probably gets him some extra votes.  Nev

Edited March 15, 2023 by facthunter
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[Marty_d]

Now the Russians have knocked a Reaper out of the sky.

I wonder if that will have any effect on shifting the Republican position.  Hey, it's the international equivalent of someone taking your GUN!

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-15/what-we-know-us-russia-drone-incident/102096264

[rgmwa]

They’ll be even more upset if the Russians salvage the wreckage before they do.

[Jerry_Atrick]

A couple of them have gone down before - one was short down in Syria according to the article. How much of it survived that would be useful to work out was goign on, I have no idea, but I would suggest that if the US account of how the Russians intercepted it was true (dumping fuel onto it and ramming its prop), it was designed to be recoverable and studyable (if that is a word). The US so fare says they don't think Russia has it.

[kgwilson]

The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Mark Milley, told reporters at a press briefing that it was likely that the drone broke apart upon impact in the Black Sea, in 1,219-1,524 metres of water, and would be difficult to recover.

"There's probably not a lot to recover, frankly, as far as the loss of anything of sensitive intelligence, etcetera. As normal, we would take, and we did take, mitigating measures," General Milley said.

"So we are quite confident that whatever was of value is no longer of value."

 

From that statement above The US isn't too worried. Part of the design is built in self destruct mechanisms. That, including how deep the water is plus the corrosive effects of salt water on electronics will likely mean the Russian will learn virtually nothing.

 

[facthunter]

Possibly but.. That's what they would say Isn't it?   Nev

[Old Koreelah]

The weapons industry is the big winner in this terrible conflict; they cannot lose. If their newest technology is captured by the other team, they still benefit, because their government will pump yet more dollars their way to develop the next generation of weapons and countermeasures. 

[facthunter]

Peddlers of  death causing weaponry are the lowest of the LOW. In the final outcome they will perish with all of us. Few can envisage the next war or they would be flat out trying to ensure it doesn't happen.. Nev

[willedoo]

The Americans said they were able to remotely remove the software from the system before it went down.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I share Nev's  worry about Trump getting in again but I really think its unlikely. Last time, I actually was surprised that he got in but I was also a bit taken in by his " drain the swamp" stuff. He appeared to be promising to lessen corruption.

Well now we know him better, so much so that he is an unusual One-term President. And well-deserved too.

But it is strange to see the Republicans forming up as part of an unholy alliance with russia... what a turn-about.

I can't see this helping them win any elections though.

[onetrack]

I'll wager there's an American sub already on the site where the Reaper went down, and they've probably already launched a UUV or ROV to recover the important bits.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remotely_operated_underwater_vehicle#:~:text=The AN%2FBLQ-11 autonomous,Avenger-class mine countermeasures ships.

[willedoo]

No U.S. subs are allowed in the Black Sea. Under the treaty, only countries with coastline on the sea can have subs and Russia and Turkey are the only countries with subs operating there. The was a report the Americans were asking permission of Turkey to send ships into the black sea to recover the drone wreck.

[Jerry_Atrick]

How long has that treaty been in force? 

[willedoo]

4 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

How long has that treaty been in force? 

Since 1936.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_the_Regime_of_the_Straits

[Jerry_Atrick]

Wow! I would be very doubtful if the US had entirely complied with it in the time since WWII...

 

[willedoo]

49 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

Wow! I would be very doubtful if the US had entirely complied with it in the time since WWII...

 

I think it's fairly tightly controlled by Turkey. It's only a narrow passage and not deep enough for any subs to pass through undetected. American destroyers and other light ships do tours in the Black Sea at times. I think while they are there they use Romanian port facilities.

[willedoo]

The Russian security service FSB headquarters in Rostov has been blown up and is on fire. Rostov (on Don) is the main city near the Azov sea where most of Russia's war effort transits through.

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

1 hour ago, willedoo said:

I think it's fairly tightly controlled by Turkey.

As a member of NATO, it is possible for Turkey to turn a blind eye?

[willedoo]

1 hour ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

As a member of NATO, it is possible for Turkey to turn a blind eye?

I really doubt it Jerry. It's one of the most narrow, observed passages around. It would be akin to Russian warships sailing up the Thames without the British knowing about it. The Russians would know about every ship transiting the Istanbul Straight, and the consequences for Turkey and the U.S. for breaching the convention wouldn't be worth it. If they got caught out, their name would be mud. Added to that, there's Turkish civilian ship spotters who run social media accounts documenting and publishing every military ship that transits. Another factor is that Turkey plays both camps. Sure, they are NATO, but not the most faithful member, and they have a lot of financial ties with Russia. 

 

As far as trying to sneak a submarine through, the shallowest midstream depth is 13 metres. This is the only way in and out of the Black sea:

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I may have been getting my Baltic and Black Sea mixed up.

[willedoo]

Technically, Russian ships from the landlocked Caspian Sea Fleet could enter the Black Sea via the Volga/Don Canal which links the Caspian and Azov Seas for shipping. The smallest lock is too shallow for the Caspian Fleet frigates, but the Corvettes could make it through with about a metre to spare.