Police

[red750]

Texas Senator Ted Cruz. Gun supporter, anti abortionist, (bring children into the world then shoot them), took his family to Cancun while Texas froze through a huge power blackout. Makes Scomo look like an angel.

[onetrack]

Don't you just love the standard reply of the gun-fondlers and NRA/God botherer bunch, right after another firearms massacre? "Now is not the time to discuss gun control. People are hurting, and emotions are running high".

 

So if right after another firearms massacre isn't the time to discuss gun control, when is the right time to discuss it?

Once the massacre news disappears off the headlines, so does the "discussion about gun control".

 

The scary part about America is how many massacres aren't even reported fully - and only more than 4 deaths at the one event, counts as a massacre.

[rgmwa]

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Takes on an entirely different meaning when you read the whole statement and not just the last bit that those gun freaks in the US always quote to justify allowing a disturbed 18 year old to buy an AR15.

 

[octave]

Interesting rebuttal of the common gun nut arguments.

 

Defeating Every Argument Against Gun Control - Steve Hofstetter      

 

If this clip is a little long, here is a shorter clip. 

 

Gun Control Solved in 3 Minutes - Steve Hofstetter

[red750]

There have been 17 mass shootings since Uvalde. A mass shooting is defined as where 4 or more people not including the offender are killed or wounded.

 

In another incident in South Carolina, a man "with history", fired bullets into the walls of his house, then fired at a parked car where a man and his 8 year old son were sitting. The son was hit in the neck and later died. The offended thought they were coming to get him. Police said he is "now in custody".

[facthunter]

Why BUY an election, when you can STEAL it ?  Or take the Capitol by force and try to string up your loyal co runner (Pence)?  Nev

[red750]

Yet again - 233rd mass shooting.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/tulsa-hospital-shooting-06-01-22/index.html

[facthunter]

The Land of the free and the brave..  Nev

[onetrack]

You gotta be brave in the U.S. alright, just to even go shopping.

[old man emu]

This is a long video, but worth watching. The presenter rebuts several claims made about the causes of mass shootings, and even argues for an acceptable definition of "Mass Shooting" so that the various typescan be grouped together and the features of each type can be examined.

 

It's no pro- or con- 2nd Amendment rant, but a well presented, even-handed consideration of the steps to take in an effort to reduce certain types of mass shootings. He concedes that certain types of mass shootings will always occur, but the really big "body count" ones could be limited if there was an understanding of the factors around them.

 

 

[onetrack]

He's still just an apologist for the gun-fondlers. The solution is simple - address the basic problem that America cannot modify its Constitution to match up with our modern era.

Their Constitution wasn't written on stone tablets and delivered by a bearded old bloke walking down Mt Sinai - it was written by old men living in an era where a gun wasn't a potent military weapon capable of killing 50 people in half as many seconds.

It was written in a era where they couldn't even imagine an item such as motor vehicles, concrete highways across the nation, massive earthmovers, skyscrapers, electricity powering virtually everything one wants to do, steel ships of 150,000 tons - the "Founding Fathers" would more than likely be both stunned and mortified as to what has eventuated in their country, and how their simplistic writings no longer apply to society, because society and technology have developed beyond anything they could imagine in their wildest dreams.

Their 2nd Amendment wasn't written when there 1.2B largely uncontrolled firearms in civilian hands, in a population of 300M. This proliferation of firearms with a "right to ownership of firearms" mantra, in a modern, developed, industrialised nation is unacceptable and incompatible with a safe civil society.

The proliferation of military assault weapons, body armour, night vision equipment, high-powered ammunition - all designed for war conditions and maximum killing power - is incompatible with a safe and peaceful society.

 

Let the mass shooting deniers be publically exposed, and shredded in public examinations - don't let them hide anonymously behind computer keyboards and bulk chain emails.

Make it a serious offence to be a denier, when the proof is right there. Front the deniers with the front-line responders at the actual massacre events.

 

Stop the BS about "gun control" being about "taking away all our rights", and just simply make firearm ownership in America a privilege, as it is the vast number of civilised societies - and then start calling in and destroying the vast number of totally unnecessary firearms that are in civilian hands.

But most of all, as a priority, remove the "right" to possess military-grade assault weapons and fast-firing weapons, and make it an offence to own body armour, night vision goggles and all the other military-grade paraphenalia that is used in nearly every premeditated gun massacre.

 

But nothing will change in America until there is a gun massacre so awful, it will be beyond belief that anything so bad could happen. Even then, the actions taken will be too little, too late.

 

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by onetrack

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

He's still just an apologist for the gun-fondlers.

At no time in that presentation did he do the "They're coming to take them away" rant. He was addressing the question of how do you categorise events so that you can concentrate on preventing certain types of mass shootings. While he acknowledged the domestic and the disgruntled employee type events, his opinion was that they were events that would continue to pop up no matter what was done. He thought that race/ethnicity/religion associated shootings could be explained, but the random shooting of "trapped" crowds had to have their source in something else.

 

His presentation was that the problem could not be solved simply by gun control, and he went to great lengths to demonstrate that some of the popular reasons trotted out, like ease of obtaining firearms, or modern firearms being different from the guns of 50 to 60 or more years ago could easily be disproved with a bit of thought.

 

His whole aim in this presentation was to say that people were debating the wrong questions. One has to discover the "Why" of these events, not the "How". I got the impression that he thought that the simple response of reducing the number of firearms, or the type of firearms would not eliminate mass shootings to the degree that people wanted. His opinion was that the "trapped crowd" shootings were planned events by "mentally abnormal" people. If we could study these people we might be able to develop a list of warning signs so that a potential mass shooter could get assistance to abandoned that way of thinking.

 

I think the presenter has the right idea. But he's talking about America and the idea of their helping others is anathema to them.

[onetrack]

OME, we have plenty of disgruntled ex-employees here in Australia - but they don't indulge in mass shootings. The major part of the reason for that is, very few people in Australia can rush home, arm themselves up with military-grade firearms, combined with concealable handguns, and go straight back to the workplace whilst still seething with anger, to "get revenge" on work associates, bosses and even just innocent bystanders.

 

Of course, neither do we have the "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" mentality that pervades America. Neither do we have the over-riding firearms worship mentality of Americans. Their whole society is full of vicious revenge, hatred of neighbours, hatred of people with different-coloured skin, movies and entertainment that constantly revolves around constant gun use, constant murderous violence, and taking the law into your own hands as a first resort, because "you can't trust our tyrannical Govt".

 

How their nation got the way it is, is worthy of a major social thesis, that would probably take more than one persons lifetime. But a national worship of firearms, reinforced by their "God-given" Constitution, is at the root of their problems.

[Old Koreelah]

 

 

For those Americans who do think their 2nd Ammendment was handed down from on high: where it mentions the right to own firearms, that is in the context of “a well regulated militia”. 

If their Supreme Court was actually independent and impartial, they’d quickly make sure the only ones with military-style weapons are members of a well regulated militia.

The American military has a pretty good record of regulating it’s firearms

.

 

 

 

 

[old man emu]

Onetrack,

I can't disagree with what you said. It is true, and the presenter acknowledged basically what you said. 

 

BUT, that wasn't the message he wanted to deliver. He categorised the random targeting of trapped people as one of many "types" of mass shootings.  Other types included the disgruntled employee, the gang shoot-outs,  the domestic violence types. Those are the unpredictable events, but the reasons why they occur are easily discovered. His point was that if research was conducted into the conditions that makes one person deliberately plan over some time how to carry out a mass shooting, and then gives the plan dry runs to identify any faults to be corrected, then society could be on the lookout for behaviours that indicate a potential in a person to initiate early intervention.  A problem with that is that it used to be said that you can't get arrested for bad thoughts. However, since the rise of terrorist activity, laws have been passed that make planning a terrorist act an offence, and a mass shooting is a terrorist act.

 

In my opinion, and I have expressed this previously, the addiction to violence in all types of entertainment is the fertilizer that allows these behaviours to grow and flourish.

 

The AIC runs the National Homicide Monitoring Program, which is Australia’s only national collection of data on homicide incidents, victims and offenders. The latest report covers the period 2019-20. It shows the homicide rate has risen in Australia over this period by 16%. The homicide rate in 2019–20 was 1.02 incidents per 100,000 people, the highest rate since 2012–13. Within these incidents the rate of domestic and stranger homicides increased, while the rate of acquaintance homicide decreased for 2019-20.

 

In this period there were 261 homicide incidents. Males accounted for 87% of homicide offenders in 2019-20. That’s almost seven times the rate of female offending, which increased slightly to 0.36 per 100,000. There were 278 victims, an increase of 38 over the previous year. Of these victims, 65% were male and 35% were female.  The most common cause of death for homicide victims was a stab wound: this accounted for 37% of deaths. This was followed by blunt force (19%) and gunshot wounds (13%) For the same period in the USA, the  homicide rate of 7.8 homicides per 100,000 people was 22% below the rate of 1991 (10 homicides per 100,000 people) and far below the rates recorded in much of the 1970s and 1980s, according to the CDC. The number of mass shootings of all types in the USA was about 250. Assuming that the majority of these were carried out by a single person, that equates to one mass shooter per 13,180,000 people.

 

Have a look at the list of "mass shootings" here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2021 If you study the list, you will see that these random target incidents are very rare. It seems that the media does its usual, and makes mountains out of molehills, as tragic as the individual events are. During the same year, here were 35,766 fatal motor vehicle crashes in the United States in 2020 in which 38,824 deaths occurred. This resulted in 11.7 deaths per 100,000 people. You don't see a media storm over those deaths, calling for compulsory wearing of seatbelts or random drug and alcohol testing. Compare that to 58,220 U.S. military fatal casualties of the Vietnam War over a ten-year period.

[nomadpete]

3 hours ago, onetrack said:

OME, we have plenty of disgruntled ex-employees here in Australia - but they don't indulge in mass shootings. The major part of the reason for that is, very few people in Australia can rush home, arm themselves up with military-grade firearms, combined with concealable handguns, and go straight back to the workplace whilst still seething with anger, to "get revenge" on work associates, bosses and even just innocent bystanders.

 

Of course, neither do we have the "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" mentality that pervades America. Neither do we have the over-riding firearms worship mentality of Americans. Their whole society is full of vicious revenge, hatred of neighbours, hatred of people with different-coloured skin, movies and entertainment that constantly revolves around constant gun use, constant murderous violence, and taking the law into your own hands as a first resort, because "you can't trust our tyrannical Govt".

 

How their nation got the way it is, is worthy of a major social thesis, that would probably take more than one persons lifetime. But a national worship of firearms, reinforced by their "God-given" Constitution, is at the root of their problems.

That summarises the general "culture" in that country

 

Or, rather the absence of culture. Of course there are many normal, respectable folk there, but even a majority cannot overthrow the powerful cretin minority.

 

And tangentally, it speaks of the ultimate selfishness of ultimate capitalism.

Whilst power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely, it cannot do so without adding greed.

[willedoo]

3 hours ago, Old Koreelah said:

Whoever made this meme had the right intention, but going by the goggles, I'd say that's an airsoft team, not real guns. Australia is one of the few countries in the world where airsoft is banned, as the authorities don't like the realistic look of the guns. On the other hand, we have paintball, in most states I think, and gel blasters in only some states.

[spacesailor]

And one from the other side! .

I can,t even own a catapult , to get a rope over the high tree branch. 

It,s illegal. 

Lost my " black powder " gun ( 410 cap or pin ) ,as to import it to Australia would have seen it crushed to scrap metal.

Three generation,s of ownership gone, 

Now l have to ' borrow 'one to have a go shooting, still breaking the law

spacesailor

[old man emu]

There are lots of things that launch projectiles that would be fun to own and play with, but the reasonable ones amongst us are prepared to forego a bit of controlled fun for the sake of preventing people getting injured by the irresponsible.

 

3 hours ago, spacesailor said:

Lost my " black powder " gun ( 410 cap or pin ) ,as to import it to Australia would have seen it crushed to scrap metal.

You seem to get  some cock and bull information from people a lot of the time. There are no prohibitions on importing something like a black powder firearm into Australia, and possessing it. You need a licence or permit to fire it.

[spacesailor]

I would have been " importing " said firearm! .

The NZ shooter,s licence carries no weight in Australia.

spacesailor

[willedoo]

There are two ways to import a firearm; either way, you must have a license to possess in the state in which you live. The first way is to do it through a licensed dealer if you are buying the firearm. In the other case, if you already own it, you need to get a firearm importation permit from the relevant state weapons licensing branch of the police. If the firearm is entering the country by post, Federal Customs will send you a seizure notice and you apply for a release by providing the firearm import permit. If you are physically bringing the firearm in from overseas, obviously it has to be declared and all the requirements met for it's transport in the aircraft hold. Then it's just a matter of fronting up to customs with the import permit to take possession. The simplest way would be to get a licensed dealer in the other country to dispatch it by post to a dealer in your state. The firearm importation permit must predate the date the firearm enters the country. If you get the permit after the date of Customs issuing the notice, they will destroy it.

 

The same procedure applies even to a water pistol. The State Police deem it to be a legal toy, but Federal Customs deem all toy pistols, plastic or otherwise, to be imitation firearms if they in any way resemble a real firearm.

 

19 hours ago, old man emu said:

There are lots of things that launch projectiles that would be fun to own and play with, but the reasonable ones amongst us are prepared to forego a bit of controlled fun for the sake of preventing people getting injured by the irresponsible.

ome, the main issue authorities have with airsoft or gelblasters is not safety or the risk of an eye injury. It's the concern that idiots will run around in public with them causing fear due to their resemblance to real firearms. Airsoft will be forever a no no here as they are very realistic. Full scale size with a lot of high quality metal components, some of them are very hard to tell from the real thing even a metre away. Gelblasters on the other hand are about 80% scale and made of toy-like plastic. The police have brought in restrictions in the states that allow gelblasters to be possessed because there's been incidents of idiots taking them down to the local park and playing with them. Even though the guns are plastic and smaller, from a distance the public sees people with AK-47's and quite rightly call the police. The police have tried to nip that in the bud by getting the message across that while they are legal to possess without a license, it's not legal to have them in public. I think they are trying to push them toward club use only, like paintball.

[old man emu]

My son wanted to get a gel gun from Queensland for use in NSW. He told me that he had to get a shooter's licence, which would be handy now that I live in the country where he can take a pot shot or two. He showed me the gel gun he wanted to get and I compared its picture with the gun it was imitating. I couldn't tell the difference. How could a constable tell if the idiot in front had a one that went "bang!" or it was one that went "pfftt"? Imagine the furore if such an idiot with a gel gun got wounded or killed by a constable because the constable had a reasonable belief that the gun-shaped thing was one that went "bang!" and that the constable, or others were in danger.

[Old Koreelah]

 

I guess it comes down to common sense (remember that quaint old relic?) 

Making it look like a dangerous weapon is not clever.

[old man emu]

A glimpse into the future:

 

LATEST MURDOCH NEWS

WE TELL YOU WHAT TO BELIEVE

 

Date line: July 4, 2525

Human Behavioural Archaeologists studying late 20th Century Caucasian cultures have found traces of behaviours believed to represent the application of the extinct type known as "unarmed self-protection", a modern translation of what was called "common sense". 

 

"It is believed that this behaviour ceased to be exhibited commonly about the time California Proposition 65 took full effect across the former United States of America and its colonies throughout the world," Professor Wun Wing Lo seems to have told Murdoch News