This is scary - how AI is now even writing the articles you read

[nomadpete]

Jerry. Your dialog with Chat GPT reads a lot like HAL9000 or any Asimov text.

 

However, my interpretation of Chat's replies to your cunning questions is this;-

ChatGPT tactfully sidesteps some questions (like a politician, it was told 'but don't mention the war!') but it still hints that in most cases it knows more than it is permitted to let on. And where it cannot answer due to 'lack of database access to world news', it seems to suggest that if it was allowed access to www, it would form an opinion.

 

Time will tell what the next development steps are.

[old man emu]

I wonder if we Baby Boomers will be the last generation to look at information with a critical, and/or skeptical eye. 

[spacesailor]

'' Baby Boomers ''

History is very short ! .

In my lifetime , I would as a child skate across the Frozen rivers & trudge in metre high snow to go to school . ( thank you for warming me up ).

The electric-Tram was replacing steam & horse-drawn vehicles .

Not many years previous,  the Bearing strait was frozen shut to shipping , yet it was Only 38 years previous that the Panama canal was opened.

AND

Already, they that rule , are calling the '' WAR babies '' , the silent generation .

I'll keep my mouth shut , SILENT .

spacesailor

Edited January 6, 2023 by spacesailor
spelling

[octave]

On 06/01/2023 at 7:49 AM, old man emu said:

I wonder if we Baby Boomers will be the last generation to look at information with a critical, and/or skeptical eye. 

Are baby boomers critical when it comes to information?    This is not my experience.    FYI I am only just within  the baby boomer category (1962).  I do find I have more in common with  younger generations than older. When it comes to evaluating information younger people (in my experience) they are much more likely to NOT accept a belief as a fact and more willing look at the LATEST evidence and are more likely to understand how to evaluate information. I usually tend to think that people who think the younger generations are hopeless are either desperately trying cling on to relevance or their children or grand children are useless.   

 

In terms of education my father left school at 14 (not his fault but this was during WW2 in England)  used to think that I was being poorly educated because I could not recite historic dates or a list of kings and queens. He was however confused when I told him of my first year 11 Chem practical which was plotting the cooling curve of  Naphthalene. In his mind we should have been given the information and drilled on it rather than doing an experiment and learning how to record the data points and scientific method.

 

My own sons education was not at school. I don't like to bang on about home education but this is what we did. the dirty little secret is that kids love to learn as long as their earning is not arbitrary and does pay heed to what they are interested in.   What would happen if you did not worry about formally educating a child at all but if  you merely answered their questions or showed them how to dig out the data themselves.    A lot of people think that you have to use firm discipline to make children learn  and all that other BS.  The fact is that being open minded and curious is the key.   My son started his company as a  small 2 person operation, He now employs many people in his particular area and he is the first to admit that these young folk have more up to date knowledge than he has.  He does not seek to tear these people down (and say it was better in my day)  but he has a passion to  learn the new information that they bring.  He is in awe of some of his younger employees. 

that you don't know you just have to talk to those who have the information or research it yourself.  My son at (about to turn 33) still has a passion for learning.  There wouldn't be a week goes by when we didn't have an online chat (he lives in NZ)  about the latest  scientific paper or aviation incident. 

 

My son and his millennial peers do not fit into the stereotype that the is often portrayed. Is this unique or is the stereotype faulty? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I think people hang out with peers of similar attributes.. so the millenial stereotype may be wrong, or it may be right.. or it may be driven by the more gregarious and less stable that crave attention in a connected world?

 

11 hours ago, octave said:

the dirty little secret is that kids love to learn as long as their earning is not arbitrary and does pay heed to what they are interested in. 

This is the basis of what is claimed to be the best education system in the world in Finland. In fact, I was talking to my son today who has a keen interest in history and politics and claimed he has learned more in a week or so of his own research than his whole time at school. His point on history was quite valid - isn't it there to teach the lessons of the past so we can avoid the mistakes of the future? He lamented at how badly the education system falls short in history on meeting the objective.

 

 

[nomadpete]

45 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

how badly the education system falls short in history on meeting the objective.

 

Totally agree Jerry.
I did history in high school, the lessons (we called them history periods because they were painful to endure and we couldn't wait for them to finish).

 

Anyway, the focus was upon teaching us to remember facts and dates. Dull as dogsheet. It would be more meaningful and interesting to teach us to think critically about the lessons learnt from the multitude of blunders and successes along the way.

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Returning to AI, it may be that AI is the only hope for mankind. We are not natural enemies since we don't conflict for resources.

Also, as the AI's grandparents, we should get some leeway.

By ourselves, we are way too stupid and belligerent  to survive.

[facthunter]

Commonsense should dictate you don't start something that you don't know the outcome of unless you can stop it anytime or you'll get to the 'GAME OVER" bit.  Nev

[nomadpete]

5 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Commonsense should dictate you don't start something that you don't know the outcome of unless you can stop it anytime or you'll get to the 'GAME OVER" bit.  Nev

That never stopped mankind's progress before, why should it now?

[facthunter]

Aren't we experiencing something like that NOW with CO2 in the sea and atmosphere, pollution of all kinds and overpopulation?   Nev

[nomadpete]

It's ok Nev, I do see the warning signs and I lament that hoomin beans have not evolved to the point of evaluating and acting on long term cost/beneft analysis of anything.

 

'They're a Weird Mob', indeed.

[facthunter]

When the Manhattan Project tested the  first atomic device they did not know whether  they would set off a chain reaction and destroy the  entire world.   Nev

[old man emu]

7 hours ago, nomadpete said:

That never stopped mankind's progress before, why should it now?

 

7 hours ago, facthunter said:

Aren't we experiencing something like that NOW with CO2 in the sea and atmosphere, pollution of all kinds and overpopulation?   Nev

But the inheritors of the gas and rubbish pollution of the planet are throwing their weight behind measures to stall its progress.  

[onetrack]

I had to chuckle at the ABC news article, where N.Y. City school officials are having to block access to ChatGPT, for fear of students using it to write essays for them.

The N.Y. schools are telling students it is illegal to use AI to generate essays, and it's considered cheating.

 

So the ABC asked ChatGPT if it was O.K. to use it to write essays, and ChatGPT said, "As a general rule, it is not appropriate to use ChatGPT or any other automated writing tool for school papers, as it is considered cheating, and does not benefit the student in the long run".  Sounds like the school heads had a say, in manufacturing that AI reply.  

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-08/artificial-intelligence-chatgpt-chatbot-explained/101835670

 

 

[facthunter]

Copying anything in that environment (even fiction) is Plagiarism. Educated people should be good at deduction and thinking for them selves not just regurgitating some supposed facts. Intelligence is not knowledge  (memory).  Nev

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

Copying anything in that environment (even fiction) is Plagiarism.

An interesting distinction you make by using the words "in that environment". Does that mean than in another environment, you would condone "cut and paste"? 

 

The above is one of my rare serious questions, aimed at generating a robust debate.

[facthunter]

Cut and Paste can do anything to the intended meaning and is a distortion or worse. The CONTEXT of the comment is also significant. Quoting deliberately out of context is a falsity/ deception of the original intent and meaning. IF a person further "qualifies" the statement, that must be taken into account as well in an HONEST and respectful  exchange of ideas. Nev.. 

[Marty_d]

A neighbour is doing a Master's and plugged her research question into ChatGPT.  She said the answer was quite good and probably could have been used.  It doesn't do citations though so there would have to be some reverse engineering. 

[facthunter]

IF they corrupt these things they will not have much value. THAT should be obvious to any 1/2 intelligent person. Just WHO  do they think they are fooling?  I loved university and would like to be a student forever. It can be a very mentally stimulating environment.  Nev

[pmccarthy]

I got a couple of uni degrees without ever going to uni. Did them in the evenings while working in a mine and raising three kids. Would have loved the mental stimulus of being on campus. I think the concept of plagiarism is BS. Students don’t come up with new stuff, they just find it in books and rewrite it in their own words. It is the finding out that is important, not the rewriting. All you learn is where to find out stuff.

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, pmccarthy said:

they just find it in books and rewrite it in their own words.

But by doing that they learn. If I was running a course that required students to show their understanding of a topic, I would phrase questions in the form, "Explain to me, in your own words (how, why, when, where). I think questions in that format would indicate a student's understanding of the topic. Basically, it makes the student become a teacher.

[willedoo]

6 hours ago, facthunter said:

Quoting deliberately out of context is a falsity/ deception of the original intent and meaning

Nev, you just summed up a fair percentage of our politicians and press.

[Bruce Tuncks]

pm, you have my admiration. But plagiarism is stealing from one person. research is stealing from 100.

[facthunter]

I did it after work. (Secondary School Teaching) 4 nights a week and rode a motorbike from St Marys (Eastern Creek) to Kensington to do it.. Our group got better results than the full time DAY students as we were more motivated..  You can learn by ROTE. Times table or be asked a question that shows you UNDERSTAND the subject which is a preferred situation to arrive at. Nev

[spacesailor]

ROTE !

By Big stick .

Then write it on the black / white board.

MORE STICK. for not copying whatever the teacher does , precisely .

spacesailor