Fighting corruption in Australia

[nomadpete]

1 hour ago, spenaroo said:

The USA have been doing it for years - that's what EMT is

I'm not so sure I would be anywhere near useful offering a helpful hand when the person has dialled triple 0 because they need the services of a skilled paramedic. A fireperson can only offer basic first aid at a similar standard to most passers by.

 

The vast majority of our Fire Service, which has recently amalgamated with other emergency services,  is manned (personal?) by ageing retired volunteers.

You know, the baby boomers who are being frequently blamed for all the problems of modern society.

 

The USofA model is staffed by highly trained, well paid professionals, with comprehensive training and budgets not available to us here.

 

Maybe if we conquer corruption we can funnel the lobbyists cash into training?

Edited November 29, 2023 by nomadpete

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, nomadpete said:

I'm not so sure I would be anywhere near useful offering a helpful hand when the person has dialled triple 0

In a lot of emergency situations, the "victims" first need is to be given "leadership" in any form. Simply having one person to say to the others, "You and you ring 000 and remain in contact with them. Next person, you go out into the street to wave down the emergency service and show them where to go." Any persons with a modicum of skill relating to the incident can then do what their skill level allows.

 

We underestimate ourselves and our abilities in the first few moments of an emergency. We have been told what to do sometime in our lives and it can be recalled from the depths of memory. doing something while the specialists are coming can save a life or property.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Here ya go.. A great synopsis of one man's fight against NSW corruption:

 

[facthunter]

Great and brave .Showing the corruption in the LAW in NSW..  Nev

[old man emu]

The governance of New South Wales has been in the control of organised crime since Capt. Arthur Phillip resigned his governorship of the colony on 23 July 1793, a control that was cemented into place as soon as Phillip's ship disappeared over the horizon.

 

As for the Alameddine family, my first posting in 1980 was to the Canterbury Municipality, which included Lakemba and Punchbowl, both housing a very high Lebanese population. The Alameddines were establishing themselves as the drug lords of the area. Their story sounds pretty innocuous in the beginning. They arrived in Australia as impoverished (??) refugees from the Lebanese Civil War (1975 - 1990). No doubt the parents struggled as all immigrants from non-English-speaking countries do, but their Lebanese-born sons were soon making money through drugs and backing it up with a liberal dose of violence.

 

Is it any wonder that our Alameddines are operating on the other side of the law?  The Alam al-Dins, also spelled Alamuddin or Alameddine, were a Druze family that intermittently held or contested the paramount chieftainship of the Druze districts of Mount Lebanon in opposition to the Ma'n and Shihab families in the late 17th–early 18th centuries during Ottoman rule. They were the traditional leaders of the Yaman faction among the Druzes, which stood in opposition to the Qays, led by the Tanukhid Buhturs, traditional chiefs of the Gharb area south of Beirut, and the Ma'ns. The Alam al-Dins' first definitive appearance in the historical record was in 1633 under their chief Ali, who was appointed by the Ottomans to replace Fakhr al-Din as the tax farmer and paramount chief of the Druze districts. Ali soon after exterminated the Ma'ns' Buhturid allies. And so the tradition began.

 

 

[nomadpete]

If only....

If only our immigration department was worldly wise enough to research such details prior to processing permanancy of migrants.

[facthunter]

I guess the Aboriginals  might think like that too. There's BAD bastards in all races.   Nev

[onetrack]

The Alemeddines and all their associates in S.W. Sydney were all released from Lebanese jails by the Syrian Army in 1975-76 and given instructions on how to get into Australia with advice that if they didn't leave the country, bad things might happen to them.

 

Malcolm Fraser overrode the Immigration Dept at the time the "refugees from the Lebanon civil war" arrived, and let them in, after they pleaded they would be killed if they stayed in Lebanon. They would've been killed there, alright - in crime gang warfare.

 

The Immigration Dept heads were furious with Fraser, because the Immigration Dept couldn't do background checks on the Alemeddines and their associates, because the Syrian Army operatives had ensured all their crime records were destroyed.

Fraser continually denied he'd overridden the Immigration Dept and allowed these lifetime criminals in, but the records prove otherwise, and books have been written about this immigration disaster.

 

Perhaps Fraser had been misled by thinking the Alemeddine crime clan and their associates were the same people as the peaceful, productive and law-abiding Maronite Christian Lebanese, who had lived in mainly NSW since the 1880's - but he was wrong.

 

Edited February 23 by onetrack

[old man emu]

12 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

Here ya go.. A great synopsis of one man's fight against NSW corruption:

Well you might point the finger at entrenched corruption in NSW, but you have failed to raise the matter of Mr Bates -v- The Post Office. Not that that case besmirched the Government. It is in the same vein as the ColesWorth scandal that is beginning its run on the stage of public scrutiny.

 

You may have seen a dramatisation of the Sub Postmasters -v- The Royal Mail, but this video tells the story from the mouths of the real people involved. But the story is not ended. It continues to drag its sorry feet across corporate Britain.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I have addressed it on a British politics forum and UK politicsd is as, if not more infested in the mire of corruptiion as any jurisdiction in NSW. I don't want to get into a pissing contest, but Robodebt v Horizon; hard to pick a winner. Though, in both cases, I don't think it was corruption per se; just illegality.. I am not convinced Horizon was allowed to get out of control because of an intent to deceptively make money; I think it was more ideologically driven (Robodebt) or a cover up once they realised they had stuffed up (Horizon). In both cases, thought, dishonesty that had extreme detrimental affects on people's lives had taken place at the behest of those entrusted with dispropritionate power.

 

And ISTR I made a post here about how Horizon was known for some time, but the press and the government did not act on it until a dramatisation was made. The TV show was not an investigative report such as 4 Corners or Panorama. Such as how polarising politics has become that even largely independent reporting is ignored these days.

 

On another front, I can't help but think Albo has taken leave complete of his political senses. How on earth is he going to manage a massive conflict of interest on this one (note, I only have a headline; the article is well hidden behind the paywall unless my browser can't actually disable Javascript): https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/as-taylor-swift-plays-to-80-000-the-pm-will-be-off-to-a-private-katy-perry-show-20240222-p5f70p.html

 

Pratt does not seem to be one to splash out on this sort of stuff from the generosity and pure kindless of his heart.

 

With worldwide effort of ABC (anti-bribery and corruption), we have to log someone making a donation of any amount to a charity on our behalf. I think the sooner Albo is lopped off the ALP leadership, the better theymay fare at the election.

Edited February 23 by Jerry_Atrick

[old man emu]

Hey, Jerry! Bought any postage stamps lately?

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

FYI, GB News is the same as Sky News in Aus... I think even an ex-Sky News Aus CEO or senior exec heads it up.

 

This hasn't made any other reputable national news site as far as I can tell.

 

There is no suggestion the Post Office was invovle directly (i.e. were supplying counterfeit stamps to the post offices - which are franchisees) - well not for the time I watched the clip So, they could have come from anywhere in the supply chain.

 

[Edit] I am not condoning their behaviour in terms of charging recipients £5..

 

£1.25 for a first class letter - it may be "outrageous", but the fact is very few people use letters these days. Corporate mailings (e.g. bank statements) are obviously at a negotiated rate, and even then, they are down as most people opt to receive statements, etc., online.

 

 

 

Edited February 23 by Jerry_Atrick

[old man emu]

8 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

 

This hasn't made any other reputable national news site as far as I can tell.

Another example of fake news? I was wondering how these counterfeit stamps could have made their way into post offices, given the overview of the Royal Mail's accounting system that was referred to in the Mr Bates documentary (not the dramatisation). Royal Mail issues a certain number of sheets of stamps to a local post office and there is a record of stocks on hand and stocks sold.

 

Are there really counterfeit stamps floating about? It would be a simple matter to trace the point of origin of letters bearing the alleged counterfeit stamps. That would allow investigator to concentrate their efforts in definable locations. However, it is quite possible that the counterfeits were not sold from post offices. 

[Jerry_Atrick]

2 hours ago, old man emu said:

Another example of fake news?

Not necessarily.. I believe that the news they presented this time was more or less a faithful presentation of an actual stamp counterfeiting operation. I think their editoral opinion mingled with the news that the Royal Mail or the Royal Post Office (I can't recall which one) not being contrite was sensationalism. There is nothing to suggest in that report that th Post Office participated or was complicit in any fraud.

 

2 hours ago, old man emu said:

Are there really counterfeit stamps floating about?

I would suggest a goole search will answer that question fairly quickly.. But, in cas eyou want to have one example: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4823176-warning-counterfeit-stamps

2 hours ago, old man emu said:

It would be a simple matter to trace the point of origin of letters bearing the alleged counterfeit stamps. That would allow investigator to concentrate their efforts in definable locations. However, it is quite possible that the counterfeits were not sold from post offices. 

I will defer to your experience as a policeman on this.. I can't possibly comment on somethign I have no professional experience in. My point is that the GB News segment provided nothing conclusive.

[old man emu]

54 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

But, in cas eyou want to have one example: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4823176-warning-counterfeit-stamps

Ah Ha! The light at the end of the tunnel. The sale of the stamps is another scam taking money from the vulnerable. Since a postage stamp is a receipt for payment for the service Royal Mail and other government postal services, it stands to reason that one should only buy stamps from authorised sellers. Buying anything "off Amazon" is fraught with danger. Having said that, I'm about to spend a bit over $150 to buy something I desperately need through eBay. You pays yer money and you takes yez chances.

[nomadpete]

Thank goodness for our Anti Corruption Commission.....

 

ABC headline:-

 

"Anti-corruption watchdog decides not to pursue Robodebt corruption investigation"

 

So there was nothing corrupt in that whole saga?

 

Of course!

[spacesailor]

 Anti  : strike trough that .

 "corruption watch-dog ",

Just keeping an eye on their mates .

spacesailor

[nomadpete]

The royal commission identified evidence that it considered was strong enough to potentially lay criminal charges, and sealed the relevany information for fear of prejudicing such court action. But so far there is no news of that getting followed through.

[Jerry_Atrick]

4 hours ago, nomadpete said:

Thank goodness for our Anti Corruption Commission.....

 

ABC headline:-

 

"Anti-corruption watchdog decides not to pursue Robodebt corruption investigation"

 

So there was nothing corrupt in that whole saga?

 

Of course!

Initially, my blood started to boil, but I stopped and thought about it. The sealed section contains referrals and evidence for futurre criminal investigations. This doesn't require the NACC to investigate; the AFP/State Police or other agencies + prosecutors are all that are needed. In fact, it is a bit of a coincidence as I was wondering what happened with the commission's findings.

 

The article is here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06-06/nacc-hands-down-robodebt-update/103945510

 

The salient quote is here:

"However, the conduct of the six public officials in connection with the Robodebt Scheme has already been fully explored by the Robodebt Royal Commission and extensively discussed in its final report.

"After close consideration of the evidence that was available to the Royal Commission, the Commission has concluded that it is unlikely it would obtain significant new evidence."

 

I sort of get it.. But what I am also concerned about is:

"n November the government revealed 16 former public servants were being investigated by the APSC, but the attorney-general would not comment on probes run by the NACC." Where is the police investigations including into what is weidely to be believed as allegatiions of perjury to the commission by SFM?

This is a sorry saga and does nothing to improve confidence in the integrity of public officials regardless of who is at the helm...

[facthunter]

There is enough to  bring it to Court and the bulk of the information is on record. . I don't think your source is balanced. Most of it here Isn't.  Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

I haven't seen the sealed section of the report so can't comment on the substantive evidence, nor its preparation for prosecution. 

 

My comment is where is evidence that the police and/or prosectors are acting on the evidence provided? Despite the sensitivities of the Trump investigations of which included evidence in the public domain that, to me anyway, was incontrovertible proof of crimes, it took a long time to bring to court cases that were bulletproof.. But, at least such investigations were announced and reported on.. Australia has a similar system, yet at the moment all we get with relation to Robodebt is tumbleweeds

[facthunter]

That's YOUR opinion. I'd rather wait a bit and see. .  Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

I believe what I have stated is fact. Have you seen the sealed section of the report to assess its suitability and preparation for prosecution and against who? Was the bringing of cases against Trump in light of the evidence in the public domain swift? What reporting of investigations and prosecution of whatever the allegations in the sealed section of the Robodebt report, apart from the APSC, which is neither police nor prosecution,  have you seen? Does Australia not have a system where government or police announce investigations of importance and in the public interest? Do the press not report these?

Edited June 7 by Jerry_Atrick

[facthunter]

Keep on raving on.. I'm not bothering to continue.. I've clearly stated my position, and I don't rely on the sources you seem to.. and I'd NEVER change your mind I know that. Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

What are you trying to change my mind on?