Should Drivers Be Required to Undergo a Biennial test

[nomadpete]

1 minute ago, facthunter said:

30 over and no licence isn't  it?    Nev

I'm pretty sure he is over 30.

 

[willedoo]

In Queensland, you have to be more than 40km/h over the limit to get an automatic suspension. Then it's a $1,653 fine, 8 points and a 6 month suspension. Between 30 and 40 it's a $1078 fine (same as mobile phone or seat belt fine) and 6 demerit points.

[nomadpete]

Motoring can get costly.

Last weekend, I unintentially won the opportunity to donate $181 for misreading a parking sign.

 

Hardly a misdeneaner that put any lives at risk.

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by nomadpete

[facthunter]

They use fast changing lights to regulate traffic flow. $100/second anytime you are against the red. Scary. Nev

[old man emu]

The irony is that the road I was travelling on in Canberra was a 4-laner with wide median strip, flat, with long sight distance and no livestock in adjacent paddocks. The day before I was driving on this road at a legal 110 kph.

[onetrack]

W.A. seems to be a bit more lenient in the fines and limits stakes. You need to be 45kmh over the limit here for automatic MDL suspension.

0-9kmh over the speed limit here in W.A. costs you $100 and no points. 9-19kmh over, is $200 and 2 points. 19-29kmh is $400 and 3 points. The points are the killer, they add up.

 

You get double demerit points on long weekends and holidays, and they start from midnight on the day and go right through to midnight on the last holiday day.

Getting caught at 12:01AM or 11:59PM would really make your day. The surprising part is, the W.A. Police webpages regularly report them catching idiots doing many kmh over the limit, and usually with a suspended MDL. Driving with a suspended MDL and committing numerous traffic offences at the same time, can see you jailed for a few months.

 

https://www.wa.gov.au/organisation/road-safety-commission/speeding

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by onetrack

[old man emu]

Research has shown that the vast majority of drivers will drive at a speed at which they feel safe. Since that is a view held by the majority, it creates what are called platoons - a group moving together at the same speed. That speed might be above or below the posted speed limit, depending on weather or road conditions as the general opinion of safety demands. 

 

However, as I write this I am wondering if the research I refer to is a bit old, and belongs to another generation. It might not reflect drivers under 25 years of age.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I agree with your philosophy OME. There are times when it is quite safe to exceed the limit, and there are places where the limit has clearly been put there to raise revenue.

 

[facthunter]

Doesn't the writing on the road say "New Limit"? Nev

[Yenn]

We have the same speed limits as 50 years ago, or lower. The roads are much better and the cars are much better than 50 years ago. Why?

My trip to Gladstone used to be 100kph all the way, now it is 80 most of the way. No increase in housing or business along the road, but the road has been straightened and widened, seems the limit is to raise revenue. A bypass has been built, no houses or businesses on it, big wide road, plenty of visibility, so 80 mph, same reason.

I reckon Qld will have a record death toll this year, but not because of speeding, just stupidity. The deaths are reported as the car lost control and the driver died at the scene. Does that mean the driver was not controlling the car, or are those autonomous cars?

[old man emu]

Don't compare the fatality numbers in 2022 directly with 2020 and 21. COVID resulted in fewer less driving, so in 2022 drivers' level of currency (not pecuniary levels)are less than normal. For an accurate analysis of the figures you would need to compare the 2022 figure with the trend from 2010. 

 

You also have to take into account the contribution of the third element in collisions - the road/road environment. It has either been raining, flooding or the road surfaces have collapsed. These can cause fatal collsions. Don't forget that deaths as a result of drivers attempting to drive through flood waters and being washed away are included in road fatality numbers.

[red750]

Ice is a big problem. Not on the road - ingested by the driver.

[facthunter]

Black ice matters.  You can't get a grip on it. Nev

[red750]

I was being sarcastic.

[facthunter]

I NO. No one can get a grip on black ice. Nothing personal. Nev

[nomadpete]

Road surface has changed in recent years. The new bitumen is smoother than the old tarmack. But I think it is more durable, so is a cost saving. When it was first introduced, there was a dramatic increase in loss of control accidents whenever it rained. Some nice new highways suddenly got lowered speed limits. Thinking specifically of a bit of Bruce highway up near Gympie.

[facthunter]

Lot of off road types involved some with tyres that don't suit wet tar hot mix roads and they are more top heavy and the road is crowned  to get the water off.  Driving too fast for the conditions.   Nev 

[old man emu]

Tyre compound is an important factor in the amount of friction developed between the tyre and the road surface. To explain that in the simplest terms, the harder the tyre compound the less friction a tyre will develop.

 

The extremes are drag slicks, which are about the softest I can think of. Then F1 tyres through to club sport tyres. Then there are performance street cat through to basic passenger car. Then tyres get harder as you move through the light commercial then 4WD up to medium commercial and finally to articulated transport vehicles.

 

What that means is, for the same road surface there is a vast difference in the ability of tyres on different vehicles to generate the friction (call it "grip") to go in a straight line; turn, or skid. Student drivers are told that skid-to-stop distance increases with speed, which is correct. But they don't get told that the type of vehicle also affects skid-to-stop distance due to the different compounding of the tyres of various classes of vehicles.

 

And don't be distracted by the thought that the weight of a ladened truck is what makes it take longer to stop than a Mini. If you could get tyres for the truck that were identical in compound to the Mini's, the skid-to-stop distance from teh same speed, on the same surface would be the same. It's all in the Maths relating to deceleration.

 

In relation to cornering, the tyre compounding also affects the ability of a tyre to genereate the forces necessary to "point" the tyre in a different direction. In my sports coupe, I can out-corner a family sedan adn run rings around a $WD, simply becasue I have softer tyres.

[facthunter]

WIDER tyres (If your suspension is designed properly) will enhance grip on clean Tar sealed surface.  Nev

[spacesailor]

$100 a second !.

Not so expensive. 

$ 500 for 0,4 of a second in Liverpool. 

And the lght was Green when I put the Delica intofirst  gear,  then amber for a very short time & flashed red as the nose got to the opposite side of the road, 

I should have just raced over but I left room for a caravan,  so kept it in first gear for safety. 

SAFETY DOESN,T PAY.

spacesailor

 

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

WIDER tyres (If your suspension is designed properly) will enhance grip on clean Tar sealed surface.  Nev

That's simply the product of wider tyres giving a larger contact patch. Tha's why dragsters and F1 cars have those wide tyres. If you follow the logic that the more rubber in the contact patch, the better the "grip" for its many uses, so complely bald tyres are the best on dry roads. But at teh moment, that hypothesis is impossible to prove as there are no dry roads.

 

Hot mix -v- bitumen-stabilised stone? More road surface in contact with the tyre with a hot mix surface.

[onetrack]

Here in W.A., you don't get booked for going through a red light, unless you cross the stop line when the light is red. If the light goes to red when you're halfway across, no problem, no fine.

[old man emu]

In NSW it's an offence to cross the stop line on a yellow light, unless it is not safe to do so. Obey that one in Peak Hour and you'll get whiplash and a new car when the vehicle following you tries to drive through yours.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Over/up here, the enforcement of road laws - speeding in particular is more flexible - at least compared to Victoria in the days of the Traffic Ops Group, and even the bog standard police at the time. It is more like, they give you a lot of leeway when the conditions are right, but even driving under the limit when it is dangerous will result in the book thrown at you - and more. When I looked into the figures, no matter which way you carved it up - except in absolute terms - the UK had a lower fatality rate and serious (life changing) injury rate (per capita, registered road vehicles, per average miles driven, etc) than Aus, by about 20% or so.

 

So, some of the differences:

• There is no requirement for a probationary driver to display a P Plate - it is optional and advised if the driver still lacks confidence.
• If you break the speed limit on a test by less than 10%, then providing it was reasonable (e.g. accelarate out of a problem, or keep the traffic moving), then you won't automatically fail, but you may lose a few points.
• If the conditions are right, thed police will generally not bother you if you speed, or break other rules (I once turned left on a no left turn intersection and a policeman was waiting to catch us. I explianed the bike was brand new, I had just picked it up immediately prior and as I worked in the area, I didn't know too many garages apart from the one that was just beyond wher he was stationed. He let me off, but suggested next time get the dealer to put some petrol in, even if it costs me a bit more.. And to be fair, I did the next time. I have seriously sped twice and been "caught", but they didn't come after me.. Once was on the M4 motorway on Christmas morning at about 6am, when I was racinb back to the in laws. I was in an old Audi A6, so nice and heavy, and capable.. doing 96 miles an hour in a 70 zone.. The police had radar gunned me.. I started slowing, but in the end thought I am busted so may as well make it fun for them to chase me.. They never came after me. Another time at about 10pm, after my partner had not answered the phone while I was away with work, I jumpoed in the car and headed towards Londong. On a dual lane A road (70mph limit), the only vehicle I had come across by that point was a motorcycle in the distance. "No way that is the police" I thought.. So, I passed him at about 90mph, and read the POLICE decals on the side of his bike. I slowed down, and as he caught up, he waved me on! I thought it was so he could catch me on camera or something, but no - did not hear from them. Not, pollies are crackign down on speeding, but, live Vic, it is mainly a tax.. and they have admitted it.
• But, if you're driving dangeroulsy for the conditions, even if technically within the law, they will throw the book at you. And the magistrate will also not be impressed.
• Even magistrates hate cameras as its the public servants who issue the fines, who are not as practical as the police. Many a magistrate has reversed fines for minor speed infringements.
• There are hardly any red light cameras. UK citites traffic is woeful  and if the odd red light is not breached (in very low speed, congested intersections), no one would get anywhere.
• The police don't seem to take such and advesarial approach with drivers as they do (ir did in my day) in Victoria.
• The male drivers over here, on the whole are less aggressive that their Aussie (or Victorian) counterpart. We still want to own that bit of real estate we are driving over, but, the Brit is more likjely to let you in or give way when they don't have to; they are less likely toi get angry as they are used to dealing with coingestion (except BMW and Audi drivers - They are the pits - I no longer own an Audi and the one I did was old)

I also think the lack of relentless pursuit of absolute compliance if the conditions allow helps in reducing the driver aggression...

 

On the Western/Northern part of the continent, they are generally even more lax, and I was doing over 135mph on a road for a short time.. and people were still overtaking me.. and my research at the time concluded only France did worse in relative terms than Aus on the fatality and serious injury rate. From memory, Germany was the lowest.. but to get a licence there is like getting a PPL anywhere else I understand.

 

BTW, I hardly ever sped when I left Australia, but my first car drive in the UK, where I hired a car to go from London to Swansea airport to take a ride in a De Havilland Vampire, I realised speeding was the done thing when a granny overtook me with some gusto while I was pootling along on the speed limit.

Edited November 1, 2022 by Jerry_Atrick

[spacesailor]

we Now call it .

REVENUEING .

Just filling the coffers. 

spacesailor