Albo's question

[spacesailor]

Or

They could DIE  ! .

Which would serve two purposes. 

a/  stop their welfare check .

b/  never reoffend  .

It is said ' capital punishment ',  fails to rectify a criminal behavior. 

BUT

They Never reoffend . case closed .

" off with their heads , why said Alice " .

spacesailor

[facthunter]

 A wilderness BRAT camp would be the  go. Run by their elder's to show them reality when no alcohol or Utes to drive around madly in..  and no Maccas to get muck food from. Spear in the leg for the bad guys. Nev

[Bruce Tuncks]

I like your idea Nev. The most effective lot in Alice Springs last time I was there was the Tangengerie council. They were aboriginals themselves so there was no racism charges I ever heard of.  They looked after the neglected kids of some neighbors we had there, and they did this without being sabotaged by fat white bleeding-heart ladies.

So a camp run by aboriginal elders would be a great replacement for jail.

[facthunter]

They don't seem to do at all well in a gaol environment. The REAL ones. GAOLs are an index of failure . Not a solution at all. They DO remove the offenders from the scene but's it's COSTLY and not rehabilitating. More Cops and Gaols is the refuge of scoundrel politicians.. The quick-fix that appeals to "show no mercy" rednecks till one of "theirs", Gets nabbed. Then it's just HE was in bad company that night. Boys will be Boys , It was the alcohol, MY kid is really nice to his mother, etc.  Nev

[nomadpete]

11 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

Spend a bit of time by yourse3lf,

And spending time with those around you upon whom you depend upon for survival (however transient it may be). Learning resilience and also the key component of inter dependancy is essential to survival in our over populated times.

 

The more I think about it, the more I like the 'walkabout' concept as better than incarceration.

Thanks BruceT

[old man emu]

Feasting from Life served up on a platter means that you never learn how to peel spuds.

[nomadpete]

And how does a constitutional voice address these concerns?

Those experienced on the ground where the 'problems' all happen, have not influenced high level voices so far.

How would the connection be made between the real people and any new voice?

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, nomadpete said:

How would the connection be made between the real people and any new voice?

It will  "Trickle Down"

[nomadpete]

3 minutes ago, old man emu said:

It will  "Trickle Down"

Maybe you are onto something there.......

The infamous trickle down economy only ever produced trickling up of money.

Will information and ethics ever trickle up with this change at the top?

[willedoo]

I guess the choice is there. We can vote no expecting failure, or we can vote yes and have hope that it will do some good. We'll never know unless we give it a try.

[Jerry_Atrick]

That#'s right, @willedoo - there is nothing in the constitution that gurantees anything iun there will work well; it only grants powers and restrictions to governments to legislate, and in a small number of cases, obligations to provide for something - which would be the case for the voice.

 

At least, it will force governments of all colours to pay attention to its effectiveness and try and make it work, or scullte it if they want, but they can't lose it.

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Jerry_Atrick

[kgwilson]

I keep saying it but will again. Every initiative from governments and various authorities to date has failed. If the No vote gets up that is a vote for failure. The Voice may not be a perfect solution but I think it is an important first step.

 

The scare mongering from the political Right has shown their lack of understanding and fear that their power might be usurped. Almost every time Dutton & his puppet Price, open their mouths the drivel is almost immediately debunked.

Edited April 23, 2023 by kgwilson

[facthunter]

It's easy to just be a "spoiler" but history will see it in the same light as the Greens not voting  for something UNLESS they get ALL of what they want.  I'd like a detailed list  of the detail that Dutton wants to be provided. Every time his demands are satisfied he Just says WE need more detail.   Same as Gillard's "STILL" has questions to answer no matter how exhaustively she had answered ALL the questions.. Dutton's not making ex cops look good. Counting on Price  (an NP SENATOR) is a big risk and won't go down well with the rest of the (shrinking) party except those CLOWNS that reside in the NP. that are rusted onto Gas and Coal interest donations.   Nev

Edited April 23, 2023 by facthunter
more content.

[willedoo]

Maybe the coalition does have some genuine concerns, but I see a lot of opposition politics being played here. This early in the term, the main focus of the Libs with any issue is to score hits on the government. If the referendum fails, Dutton & Co. will see it as a victory over the government. The objective of any opposition is to continually sow seeds of doubt about the government's competence. Dutton's plan would be to sink the referendum, make the government look silly, then come up with their own grand plan and gamble on it getting traction.

 

I recon the Libs are using the issue to score much needed Brownie points with the electorate. They also risk pushing the no lever too far. If they miscalculate, a lot of voters might see them as opposing just for the sake of opposing. There's still a long way to go before the vote and Dutton is taking a gamble as he doesn't have much to lose at present. I'd like to know how much of the desire to score blows on the government is being dressed up as concern over legalities and effectiveness of the proposed model.

[facthunter]

T A Bot was always heralded as a successful opposition leader but hew as a destroyer rather than an initiator. i think Spud thinks he will emulate Phoney but Howard And Tony both lost their seats  which were very safe to outsiders. Howard thinks he's some kind of notable statesman but a bit of examination will show many of his vote buying legacies are still around to haunt us well into the future..  Nev

[Bruce Tuncks]

I can't help but remember Howard selling our natural gas  to China etc for 5cents a litre. I think he was a fool more than a bad guy, I reckon he honestly thought there was plenty more gas if only the right incentives were applied.

Nowadays, it is cheaper to buy Australian natural gas in China.

[facthunter]

Even calling it "Natural Gas " is a con especially IF its "Fracked".  METHANE, (marsh gas) should qualify as natural. Nev

[facthunter]

Politically "cunning" , but NO genius.  Nowhere near Menzies at anything. Menzies was witty, articulate and a statesman with a fine voice and presence. Even as a 10 year old I'd have my ear to the radio listening to Parliament Just  to hear him deal with others.. He became known as "Pig iron BOB for sending iron to Japan to be made into bombs etc. Menzies instigated " worlds firsts social programmes that todays RWNJ's try to scrap.  Nev

[Old Koreelah]

8 hours ago, facthunter said:

 I'd like a detailed list  of the detail that Dutton wants to be provided. Every time his demands are satisfied he Just says WE need more detail.   Same as Gillard's "STILL" has questions to answer no matter how exhaustively she had answered ALL the questions..

Dutton, and the other headkickers before him don’t actually want answers- they are just feeding more headlines to the right-wing press, in the knowledge that most voters won’t have the interest or concentration span to listen to the answers. 

[Marty_d]

8 hours ago, willedoo said:

If they miscalculate, a lot of voters might see them as opposing just for the sake of opposing.

I can't speak for any other voters but that's exactly what they're doing.

 

Dutton is opposing this solely because Labor supports it.  If Albo had decided not to hold the referendum, guess who would be howling him down for letting down Indigenous people and breaking election promises.

 

Playing politics with the lives of marginalised people.  It's disgusting.  Abbott did it too when he kicked gay marriage to a postal vote even though he knew the majority of people supported it and he could have simply removed the words that Howard put in the marriage act.

 

Labor is not blameless either.  Despite commissioning a review of the rate of Jobseeker, they now want to ignore the recommendation to increase it, while at the same time letting the incredibly unfair stage 3 tax cuts go through.  That's LNP behaviour.

[spacesailor]

When gas prices rose in NZ . someone ( like a politician ) put out a design for a ' back yard ' , Methane gas producer ,

using mower ' grass cuttings ' in a barrel , with a sealed top to catch the gas pressure , & pipe it to a heater .

spacesailor

[willedoo]

7 hours ago, facthunter said:

METHANE, (marsh gas) should qualify as natural.

NG is mainly methane, with some very small amounts of other trace gases present.

[Marty_d]

1 hour ago, spacesailor said:

When gas prices rose in NZ . someone ( like a politician ) put out a design for a ' back yard ' , Methane gas producer ,

using mower ' grass cuttings ' in a barrel , with a sealed top to catch the gas pressure , & pipe it to a heater .

spacesailor

They're not hugely useful. Our off-grid neighbours have a big bag thingy that they shovel heaps of cow shit into to get the methane. Barely provides enough for 1 stovetop burner and cost heaps to set up.

[pmccarthy]

I have seen the gas producers in India. Like the old Rhodesian boiler, they depend on slave level wages to keep them shovelled full.

[Bruce Tuncks]

That's right fellas. Here at the farm, there is enough firewood to fire a steam boiler to run a generator. The problem is that the boiler attendant's wages are way more than the electricity bill. Apparently you MUST have a boiler attendant.