SDQDI Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 Just another point which may be minor, a lot of people are saying the death penalty isn't a deterant (spelling?) and that may be so but what effect would it have had if Indonesia had let these fellas off? Wouldn't that create an image of impotency of the law? So maybe while not being a positive thing not going ahead with it could have been a big negative and given would be traffickers the idea that even if they are caught things won't be too bad?
farri Posted April 30, 2015 Author Posted April 30, 2015 So maybe while not being a positive thing not going ahead with it could have been a big negative and given would be traffickers the idea that even if they are caught things won't be too bad? Of course that`s possible! Hypothetically, anything is possible but It`s going to take more than a hypothetically argument to convince me. I`m just amazed at the number of people who are prepared to call dealers garbage but are not prepared to call users garbage or even admit that the users are part of the problem. Users do most of the crime to obtain the money to feed the habit. The drugs on the streets arn`t all coming in from other countries, they are being cooked and supplied by people in this country. They can obtain any number of legal medications from chemists and turn them into deadly illegal drugs. Frank.
dazza 38 Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 What done is done, and nothing is going to bring the two guys back. Unless reincarnation is real, death is pretty permanent. Regardless of whether the two guys should have been killed or not it doesn't change the fact IMO that Indonesian government are scum bags and they are only just slightly above the evolution chain than monkeys. I cannot believe that the western world turn a blind eye to the genocide going on in West Papua. The two Australians being shot is just a drop in the ocean compared to the atrocities going on with these clowns. I have never been to Bali or any other Indoneasian joint and I never will. Young Australians don't help themselves by acting like d!ckheads in Indoneasia either. End of rant.
alf jessup Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 Barlow & Chambers got hung somewhere over that way many years back, no song & dance from the pollies or the media over that, well not to this extent. Its Over now as the fat lady would sing. Can't wait to see what the media latches on too next
winsor68 Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 That's not supporting stats FT that's apochrophy. So is this: I live next a walk-way and I've found used syringes and used condoms in my garden beds, Pretty confident they weren't mine. I've met hundreds of addicts through my work and the majority cite marijuana as their gateway drug to the heavy stuff. Not saying that grog doesn't play a part but I doubt your assertion that it's the principal gateway. The myth that doesn't die...
winsor68 Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 Nev, You might want to go out at 2am around the back lanes near the Story Bridge tonight and see some of the end results of these guys. Don't go alone. Unlike you guys...i've really...and I mean literally...done exactly this... and I have to say... I never saw anyone who wasn't involved with it (as in a user) who had the slightest trouble in these areas... and never felt even the slightest bit threatened. It was the footballers and other binge drinkers who were the violent thugs and caused all the trouble... I kid you not...before they knocked the old places down and rebuilt them as yuppy sports bars before this century.... The Valley...West End...Story Bridge...all the so called "junky" areas.... were safer to walk around then walking to town in Mount Isa I can personally assure you.
bexrbetter Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 Barlow & Chambers got hung somewhere over that way many years back, no song & dance from the pollies or the media over that, well not to this extent. Malaysia had introduced the death penalty for drug trafficking in 1983 as a reaction to a burgeoning drug trade in the region. By mid 1986 Malaysia had hanged about 35 people in ten years, mostly Chinese Malaysians convicted of drug trafficking. Lawyers and government officials reportedly agreed that the country risked a political and ethnic outcry if it made exceptions based on the ethnicity of its defendants. As Australian public support for Barlow and Chambers was minimal, Malaysia risked little diplomatic damage from carrying-out the execution.[18] Australian Prime Minister Bob Hawke made a passionate plea for a stay of execution on behalf of the two men. Hawke later described the hanging as "barbaric", a remark which chilled Australian relations with Malaysia.[23] Relations between the two nations were reportedly affected for a decade afterwards.[24] In response to the argument that no one has the right to take another's life, then-Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad replied, "You should tell that to the drug traffickers."[25] At a press conference that occurred after the hangings Mahathir criticised the use of the word "barbaric" and said it should not have been used to refer to Malaysia because "we have never had any lynchings and things like that which only barbarians like to do." He also said that hanging as a method of executing criminals originated in the West.[26] The then UMNO Youth Leader Anwar Ibrahim also said use of the term "barbaric" was regrettable. He said "It is a generative word that passes judgement on our society—something we cannot accept and did not expect from such a friendly country." He argued that the consequences of drug trafficking were well known in Malaysia, and the need for strong deterrents to eliminate the activity was accepted internationally.[27] The conference of State Legislative Assembly speakers in Shah Alam also rejected Hawke's comment. They said it gave the impression Australia belittled Malaysian law and "considers the capital punishment meted out to the two as uncivilised and unsuitable for this day and age." The speakers at the conference unanimously passed an emergency resolution expressing their "grave view" of the statement. The conference felt that such comments should not have come from a national leader who upheld the law and that the statement had touched on the sovereignty of Malaysia's laws and the legal system.[28
turboplanner Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 Those would be some of the milder comments of the good Doctor Mahathir, who hated the British with a passion over some past disagreement, and lumped us in with the British whenever he wanted to take a swipe at us, which was often.
biggles Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 Those would be some of the milder comments of the good Doctor Mahathir, who hated the British with a passion over some past disagreement, and lumped us in with the British whenever he wanted to take a swipe at us, which was often. 'Recalcitrant' rings a bell .
bexrbetter Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 Unlike you guys.. Do not speak on my behalf thanks, I did night shift work in the Valley. I didn't mention violence either.
Aldo Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 Will the execution of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, make any different to the ongoing illicit drug use?.........I believe it won`t!!! Frank. No but these two won't be able to do it again and that's a good thing in my opinion and we no longer have to spend any tax dollars on them.
facthunter Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 Disappointing comment. We are talking about taking people's lives . Nev
Marty_d Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 Have fun fellas. Nothing new in this thread for me.
Aldo Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 Disappointing comment. We are talking about taking people's lives . Nev Nev The misery that people like this bring to thousands is far more pertinent than these two. Have one of your own come into contact with this part of society and see if your opinion changes.
Birdseye Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 Disappointing comment. We are talking about taking people's lives . Nev One thing we have in this world is a people surplus. Therefore we should be more selective of who we tolerate living on the planet. Had they not be caught, how many more drug runs would they have made in the past ten years? The only inhumane aspect is waiting ten years to carry it out.
winsor68 Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 Do not speak on my behalf thanks, I did night shift work in the Valley. I didn't mention violence either. I Do not speak on my behalf thanks, I did night shift work in the Valley. I didn't mention violence either. Then why would recommend not going alone to those areas?
winsor68 Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 NevThe misery that people like this bring to thousands is far more pertinent than these two. Have one of your own come into contact with this part of society and see if your opinion changes. Your opinion can change all it wants... it has been my experience that even the best trained medical minds can loose their grasp of reason when trying and failing to deal with a family member with a drug "habit"... opinions mean very little... results and evidence are legitimate markers of how best to handle the drug problem in society...and the evidence is that using law enforcement to try to adjust what is essentially mentally ill behaviour does not work...it makes the problem worse... Interesting fact... In Mackay Synthetic Cannabis has caused 3 deaths in the last year...this stuff was being legally sold... even my friends who own the corner shop were selling it... they got robbed by an armed offender of all this shit one night... All legal... at least 6 months before the first person died I had a chat to my friends at the shop...and warned them that it was just going to be a matter of time... but what could you really say...
robinsm Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 Your opinion can change all it wants... it has been my experience that even the best trained medical minds can loose their grasp of reason when trying and failing to deal with a family member with a drug "habit"... opinions mean very little... results and evidence are legitimate markers of how best to handle the drug problem in society...and the evidence is that using law enforcement to try to adjust what is essentially mentally ill behaviour does not work...it makes the problem worse... Interesting fact... In Mackay Synthetic Cannabis has caused 3 deaths in the last year...this stuff was being legally sold... even my friends who own the corner shop were selling it... they got robbed by an armed offender of all this **** one night... All legal... at least 6 months before the first person died I had a chat to my friends at the shop...and warned them that it was just going to be a matter of time... but what could you really say... so that makes it ok? Reality check please...
winsor68 Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 so that makes it ok? Reality check please... No it doesn't make it all right...but this whole idea about those nasty druggies and poor me I can't even feel safe is more about society and it's sad attitudes to social problems then it is about drug users... My moral compass doesn't just switch off if something is legal...
winsor68 Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 No it doesn't make it all right...but this whole idea about those nasty druggies and poor me I can't even feel safe is more about society and it's sad attitudes to social problems then it is about drug users... My moral compass doesn't just switch off if something is legal... Essentially what I am saying is... my local shopkeepers...lovely family...we know them well...but technically...they are just as responsible for causing death and destruction as any Heroin smuggler caught in Indonesia... and in fact locally the statistics back that up because I haven't seen a single person die from a heroine overdoes in this region in the last 12 months... but we as a society with our out of whack moral compass....
robinsm Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 Get real, 34 women have died in Australia this year from domestic violence, with no comment from the bleeding hearts, and your worried about a couple of drug barons. I rest my case
facthunter Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 10,000 + per annum, by misadventure (mistakes) in the medical system and they just tried to get well, not high. They are all just as dead. Nev
turboplanner Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 Re #121, #122 As a society we need a rethink about how we are going to protect it better. These two examples - women and patients are a valid concern. I know the medical industry is making a massive effort to avoid negligence, but women, and children subjected to domestic violence usually have to just take it and live a life of misery, if they can.
farri Posted May 1, 2015 Author Posted May 1, 2015 Education!..... As with illicit drugs or any other substance abuse, education begins in the home and as early as possible. Boys need to be taught that it is not manly to abuse anyone, let alone women and children. There are many reasons why domestic violence occurs! There is no quick fix solution but education in the home and in schools is a step in the right direction. Frank.
Gnarly Gnu Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 but women, and children subjected to domestic violence usually have to just take it and live a life of misery, if they can. Yes. And the men that have been subject to domestic violence also.
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