Execution.

[winsor68]

Yes. And the men that have been subject to domestic violence also.

What a predictable response...

 

 

[turboplanner]

What a predictable response...

What a cheap cretinous shot! You don't think it occurs, or are you just wanting to sink the knife into GG like the gang on the other thread!

 

 

[winsor68]

What a cheap cretinous shot! You don't think it occurs, or are you just wanting to sink the knife into GG like the gang on the other thread!

Why is that a cheap shot? Did I say I don't think it occurs? Again...predictable.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

To all if I seem a bit curt I'm sorry, things happening in my real life (good things but a very anxiety creating situation) combined with every post here reminds me of my POS smacko brother.

 

I know some of you mean well but you just can't know what you don't know. The stories I could tell, but the people who have been exposed to having family members or close friends know them only too well and they don't need reminding.

 

 

[farri]

Bex, I couldn`t even begin to know how you, addicts or anyone else, would feel in such a situation and I sincerely hope,I never have to.

 

So far, Frances ( my wife ) and I havn`t had to deal with substance abuse of any kind. We have two grandchildren turning twenty shortly and three in their early twenties, should any one of them decide to use illicit drugs, I will blame myself, not some dealer.

 

I didn`t start this thread to create conflict, it was my way of creating discussion, in the hope that something positive would come out of it! I`m well aware that anyone who has family or friends, using illicit drugs, abusing legal drugs or any other substance, will see the situation different, to those who don`t.

 

I`ve have had a life time to think about this issue! Initially I blamed the producers and the dealers but I came to see, that the users play just as big a part in the issue as the producers and dealers.

 

Whenever a dealer is put in prison,or executed, there is always another person, who thinks they are smarter than the last guy, waiting to take their place! The drug trade is even run from inside prisons.

 

It appears to me, there will always be producers, dealers and users of illicit drugs and those who will abuse any substance that will give them the effect they want.

 

If the execution of dealers is justified, is the execution of users justified?........ As has been said here by others!....."They won`t do it again."

 

Frank.

 

 

[kgwilson]

I have waded through all 130 posts & offer my opinion.

 

1. I don't agree with the death penalty for any offence.
    
   
2. I do think any sovereign nation has the right to self determination and if their law is the death penalty for drug smuggling I respect that.
    
   
3. The federal police were only doing their job 10 years ago when they informed the Indonesian authorities.
    
   
4. To drag this whole affair out for 10 years with legal appeals has only had one set of winners, The Lawyers.
    
   
5. The drug smugglers knew what they were doing, knew the harm done to addicts & potential addicts, knew the penalties, knew the risks, but continued anyway & got caught so they have to accept the consequences.
    
   
6. The media is the biggest culprit in this whole sorry saga. All others on death row around the world seem to be irrelevant. And it still continues in today's news.
    
   
7. The Australian Government should keep its nose out of things it has no control over. What did they say 10 years ago when these 2 were sentenced to death?
    
   
8. I feel sorry for the families as they were give false hope, as were the drug smugglers by becoming rehabilitated (assuming they genuinely were).
    
   

 

End of rant.

 

 

[farri]

To me, it wasn`t a rant! You`ve made good relevant points.......It`s possible, the execution has created two martyrs.

 

Frank.

 

 

[gandalph]

Agreed Frank, and that would be a terrible outcome, but it has started. A local radio comentator commentating on the news that the director of the National Portrait Gallery had removed the portrait of the Indonesian president because of the "political climate" said she really hoped that one of the self portraits by Sukamaran would be put on display in the gallery. Arrgh!

 

 

[farri]

I didn`t know that, gandalph, but I`m not surprised!

 

This issue has just begun and I reckon it is going to hurt innocent people, in both countries, who had absolutely nothing to do with it! That will also be a terrible outcome.

 

Frank.

 

 

[robinsm]

The inmates are running the asylum now so it doesn't surprise me. Lets have a national life sentence for murder day.

 

 

[gandalph]

The inmates are running the asylum now so it doesn't surprise me. Lets have a national life sentence for murder day.

Robinsm ,

 

1. Don't believe all you read/see/hear in the media.

 

2. A life sentence means many different things in the various Australian jurisdictions. I think the ACT is the only place in Australia where a life sentence means for the of his/her natural life. But what's the point of keeping a person in gaol when they can no longer pose a threat to society. A great deal of sentences of imprisonment are handed down to satisfy our "need" for retribution rather than to protect our society. A wise man I once worked with said: People should be gaoled AS punishment not FOR punishment.

 

I'd rather have a "let's have the Pollys get their heads out of their arses and stop using 'Law & Order 'as a vote catcher" day/week/year. Fat chance of that though.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

now the Australian Catholic University wants to name a scholarship in their honour. What for - How To Get Away With Smuggling Drugs????

"Human Rights" studies scholarship for Indonesian students.

 

The 'Jimmy Savile' scholarship for "Sexual Abuse" studies coming soon - and who better to teach that than the Catholic Church.

 

I have waded through all 130 posts & offer my opinion.

1. I don't agree with the death penalty for any offence.
   

 

Yuh, Ted Bundy agrees with you.

 

.......

 

 

[bexrbetter]

On Facebook today, don't know the validity of it ........

 

This is a post by a police officer regarding the hype around the Bali executions and it's something I think more Aussies need to read .................................................

 

I can’t believe the mentality of people. I have been in law enforcement for 34 years and have worked in many areas within the force. After 9 years in, I spent nearly 5 years working as a UC. (Undercover) attempting to infiltrate traffickers of all types of drugs including amphets right down to simple choof. What a world of pain and misery.

 

I was encased by the filth and self-destruction where I witnessed numerous deaths by either ODs or in a lot of cases suicides. Young girls selling their bodies for 10 bucks a go just to get their hands on their next fix. I remember one particular girl who hung around with the collection I was trying to set up. She was 14 when she was hooked and on the game by 15. Her body was so ripped and torn by drug and sexual abuse she had intestines falling out of her rectum as a result of numerous rapes and sexual encounters where she tried to get payment. Her child was taken off her when she was 15 by Human services but they could do nothing for her but supply treatment when they could. She died at 19. Alone in a back street. Where were you do-gooders. I saw you pass her on the street and avoid her all the time. I would give her food but she preferred to starve and get some smack rather than eat. I became depressed with my job after this time and had to eventually get into some other area. I guarantee any police officer who reads this will be thinking of some person they have dealt with in their career that fits this build. But all I see is you wanna be Samaritans who treat these two drug kings as heroes.

 

Ok I accept that you dont believe in the death penalty. I don’t like it either. But I am sure as shit not going to call on the PM to “Bring our boys home” No boy of mine would do this. The media and the solicitors have played you people for the fools you are. You have never lived in the world of drug, crime and despair. You have been protected from it so much you live in the fantasy world where you believe you can hug everyone and all will be better. You are not qualified to even comment as to whether these guys should get parole or not.

 

Have a look at our system. Or have you forgotten already. Adrian Bayley. You paroled him. You say the parole board stuffed up and parole him. But the parole board consists of people just like you. With your opinions and beliefs. That was a complete and utter failure. This piece of shit was a career rapist and the only ones we can blame for what he did is all of us. Not the judge. Not the Parole board or the police. Us.

 

The decisions like this that are being made are by people who never have to deal with these shitheads when they are in street mode committing crimes. You see them all clean shaven and in their court suits or white shirts becoming born again etc. You poor misguided fools. You don’t even care about the effects of what they have done to our society.

 

Our penalties used to be tough and crime was low. When I started in the police force 34 years ago we called it “Marijuana” It was the biggest thing on the street. Crime was not rampant. Then the drug importing began and the addiction, the shift to powders etc and suspended sentences and here we are. Well your system has worked hasn’t it. Then you voice how much you hate police. But you ring us and run inside and hide whilst we come out and deal with the shit you don’t have the guts to deal with yourself. But you are right up there on your keyboards bravely shit canning the police for excessive force and filming it on your cameras. Here we are in Australia expecting the world to fall at our feet. “Lets boycott Bali. Wow you heroes. That will fix them. Won’t mean shit. You think Australia props up Bali. There are more tourist from Europe than Australia there. And its mostly the bogans one and only overseas holiday destination.

 

Henry Chinn. Know him? Bet not. Well he is on death row in China for trying to smuggle 270 grams of meth into our lovely country in 2004. Have you given a shit about him yet? No. Why? Cos the media hasn’t spoon fed you the crap to hype you up. Who are the two Aussies who were caught in China in last year trying to cart 75kg of ice to here? Davis and Gardiner. They are a couple. China has executed in excess of 1000 people in a 12 month period. But you still buy their shit every day. You hypocrites. These two Australians will be executed and you will still buy their product. Second chance you say. You think these people have no prior convictions. You think this is their first attempt.

 

Wake up fools. Stop hugging yourselves. Two men died today because they broke a law in a country where they knew they faced death if caught. Had they have gotten away with it, there would be a countless number of 19 year old girls laying in the gutter dead. Quick run inside and tell yourself what a great person you are

 

 

[robinsm]

Robinsm ,1. Don't believe all you read/see/hear in the media.

 

2. A life sentence means many different things in the various Australian jurisdictions. I think the ACT is the only place in Australia where a life sentence means for the of his/her natural life. But what's the point of keeping a person in gaol when they can no longer pose a threat to society. A great deal of sentences of imprisonment are handed down to satisfy our "need" for retribution rather than to protect our society. A wise man I once worked with said: People should be gaoled AS punishment not FOR punishment.

 

I'd rather have a "let's have the Pollys get their heads out of their arses and stop using 'Law & Order 'as a vote catcher" day/week/year. Fat chance of that though.

NSW also has life for life. Do you want someone who is imprisoned for multiple murders living next to you? How do you know they have "reformed". If we dont seek retrbution for crimes then what is the use of having laws and m,oral codes?

 

 

[Geoff13]

You guys can have all the reform you like. I want 2 things from the justice system.

 

1. Punish the bastards for what they have done.

 

2. Prevent them from doing it again.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

But you ring us and run inside and hide whilst we come out and deal with the **** you don’t have the guts to deal with yourself.

Oh but that is what we are required to do by law sir, odd that you've not caught on. No defensive weapons allowed in Australia remember? You do know the cops tend to take much more interest in arresting anyone who uses a weapon to defend themselves than they do in the perp? Soft vs hard target, recall that stuff?

 

 

[planet471]

Do you really think the 2 Bali nine that were executed would have become a preacher and a painter if they hadn't been caught!

Actually I wonder if they would have become a preacher and a painter if they had not been sentenced to death and we're just doing time in gaol instead like the other seven?

 

 

[gandalph]

NSW also has life for life. Do you want someone who is imprisoned for multiple murders living next to you? How do you know they have "reformed". If we dont seek retrbution for crimes then what is the use of having laws and m,oral codes?

Well for starters if he's imprisoned there's a very strong likelyhood that there's there's a big wall and lots of razor wire 'tween him and me.

 

But to respond seriously to your post Robin, my view is:

 

What's the use of having laws and moral codes if we don't try and rehabilitate and re-educate those who break the laws and breach the codes.

 

If, as a society we seek, retribution, revenge or vengeance over justice, then we are not that far removed from those we seek to wreak our vengeance upon.

 

justice

 

noun

 

1 [ mass noun ] just behaviour or treatment: a concern for justice, peace, and genuine respect for people.

 

• the quality of being fair and reasonable.

 

• the administration of the law or authority in maintaining this.

 

"Justice is conscience, not a personal conscience but the conscience of the whole of humanity" [Alexander Solzhenitsyn Letter to three students]

 

"For me, justice is the first condition of humanity" [Wole Soyinka The Man Died]

 

And finally, I firmly believe that there are some offenders who should be locked away for the protection of the community and shouldn't be released until they are incapable of causing harm to the community. But I do not support the death penalty.

 

One more rant ended.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

But I do not support the death penalty.

I'm sure the 5 guys, who continuously raped and bashed Anita Cobby for hours before leaving her in a paddock, after dragging her along a barbed wire fence for some distance, to die but deciding to come back later and slash her throat almost cutting her head off, agree with your position. Some of the 5 are living a reasonably good life in jail.

 

 

As I complained earlier, too many people are seriously detached from the reality of it all.

 

 

[gandalph]

Restating my position Bex, in case you missed it:

 

"And finally, I firmly believe that there are some offenders who should be locked away for the protection of the community and shouldn't be released until they are incapable of causing harm to the community. But I do not support the death penalty."

 

Travers, the 3 Murphy Brothers and Murdoch were jailed for life with the judge having their files marked "Never to be released". The attempt by two of the murphy's to have their sentences re-considered in 2006 failed and the NSW government introduced legislation designed to prevent the state's worst criminals - including the killers of Anita Cobby and Janine Balding - from ever qualifying for release.

 

Bex, I have dealt with murderers, rapists, child killers, and paedophiles, drug dealers, drug users, and the whole spectrum of criminals, and the criminally insane on a day to day basis for the last 15 years. I do not side with these people, I do not in any way defend their actions. Oh how I wish I was detached from the reality of it all!

 

I do not support the death penalty.

 

 

[gandalph]

An eye for an eye eh? No wonder the Isil scum finds it so easy to recruit in Australia. We are already adopting their creed

 

 

[pmccarthy]

I can't help commenting:

 

Exodus 21:24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

 

Leviticus 24:20 fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. The one who has inflicted the injury must suffer the same injury.

 

Deuteronomy 19:21 Show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

 

So it isnt only the Isis scum advocating this.

 

Doesn't mean I agree. Just that the God botherers on both sides are the same.

 

 

[farri]

As I complained earlier, too many people are seriously detached from the reality of it all.

Could it also be that too may people are seriously attached to the reality of it all, to form a truly non biased opinion?

 

The Anita Cobby case is a separate issue and therefore has no relevance to the Chan, Sukumaran case.

 

Frank.

 

 

[farri]

An eye for an eye and eventually, everyone will be blind.

 

Frank.

 

 

[Teckair]

These people/idiots did this shortly after Shapel Corby got caught we are better off with out that level of stupidity.

 

How could Indonesia back down on the sentence? It would send a message that you can get away with the crime.

 

Why should Indonesia or anybody have to fund keeping people like that in jail?

 

Our politicians have made fools of themselves and our country over this issue.

 

Yes I do think this would be a deterent and if it isn't then any future idiots should be dealt with in the same manner.