Execution.

[Garfly]

Yes, I thought that this comment to a blog ("Death on Nusa Kambangan" see url below) is very much to the point in that regard:

 

"rupert moloch says:

 

30 April 2015 at 6:16 pm

 

Both Jokowi (progressive populist) and Abbott (reactionary buffoon) are desperate to revive their polling figures. That is the brutal expediency at base of their respective stances."

 

http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2015/04/29/frederick-wilmot-smith/death-on-nusa-kambangan/?utm_source=LRB+online+email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20150421+online&utm_content=ukrw_subsact&hq_e=el&hq_m=3741398&hq_l=17&hq_v=e02b8c2a9b

 

 

[turboplanner]

Many pollies play the Law and Order Card. It always works At 100K plus per person per year we could spend our money wiser I'm sure. For your money there is no rehabilitation. ( would ruin Serco's business plan) Bluestone College turns out hardened criminals. Plenty of drugs inside. Bad idea. Aborigines are over represented. BAD look. Bad outcomes.. People need good jobs and training. Cheaper in the long run. Nev

So you want to set all the thieves, rapists, bashers and murderers free into the community?

 

 

[dutchroll]

So you want to set all the thieves, rapists, bashers and murderers free into the community?

That interpretation of FH's post is one of the most enormous leaps of logic I have ever seen on this forum.

 

 

[Garfly]

Nev was saying that when democratic politicians wind-up and exploit the crueler, less rational passions of their constituents for electoral benefit more harm is done than good.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Is THAT what he was saying.

 

 

[SDQDI]

I thought he was saying 'we would all be better off if we went for a fly and stopped arguing'

 

Hmmm the joys of interpretation

 

 

[Garfly]

Is THAT what he was saying.

LOL ... Yeah, but better and quicker. ;-)

 

But back on off-topic, to me Nev is on the same track as the Indonesian journalist (#201 above) in her open letter to Pres. Widodo:

 

"But you wanted to appear strong, so you grabbed for a subject that already comes equipped with its own fan base. Eighty-six percent of respondents in a survey conducted by Kompas, Indonesia’s leading daily, agreed to the death penalty for Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, the two Australian nationals who were among the eight men executed last week."

 

 

[gandalph]

So you want to set all the thieves, rapists, bashers and murderers free into the community?

Unbelievable!

 

 

[johnm]

.................. fuel for the inferno ? - don't know if this has been mentioned but Oz ensured Mr McCade would not face the death penalty before extradition - link below

 

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/alabama-murder-trial-for-honeymoon-scuba-death-delayed-by-courthouse-staff-shortages/story-e6frg6so-1226093793263

 

 

[farri]

Prosecutors have agreed not to seek the death penalty after the Australian government said it could not deport Watson back to the US if he faced possible execution.

 

Gabe Watson, was in Australia, Chan and Sukumaran were in Indonesia!

 

Frank.

 

 

[dutchroll]

Under the Extradition Act, the Attorney General can only authorise extradition to another country if the accused will not face a "real risk" of being subject to the death penalty.

 

In other words, if you're already in Australia, you won't face the death penalty. If you're arrested in another country though, all bets are off.

 

 

[johnm]

...................... really ? - were they in Indonesia (fancy that)

 

my point is that Oz gave Watson consideration (as legislated) - that consideration was not shown to the Bali 2 (even if there is no such legislation) - tough justice by Oz I think

 

 

[farri]

I know talking to police they get so frustrated locking up the same people for doing the same things (drugs, thefts ect) and then having the courts let them out so it can happen over and over. It is hard to find a balance, the police would like more power to lock people up with less evidence but how much would that affect innocent people? .

I believe the police are there to arrest someone and gather information for the courts, not to be judge and jury. How much more power do they need?...Regardless, of the times they have to take someone in again, that`s the job they are paid to do, if they are frustrated about it, then they need to change their attitude!....If the laws that exist arn`t sufficient, then it`s for the government to make more appropriate laws, not the police.

 

Not long ago, I wrote a letter to the Cairns Post, about the violence that was occurring in Cairns. The letter was printed so I decided to take it one step further and send it to our local member, Curtis Pitt, asking him to look into it. Curtis Pitt, sent my letter to the Attorney General and the reply, was, " We already have laws covering that". Of course that wasn`t the whole reply but basically, that was the end of the subject.

 

Frank.

 

 

[Teckair]

I thought he was saying 'we would all be better off if we went for a fly and stopped arguing'

Hmmm the joys of interpretation

I thought he was saying he took the wrong medication.

 

 

[Yenn]

dutchroll says the Indonesian gov't is hypocritical because they try to save their own from death row in other countries. I find it amazing that our government can put on such a song and dance about a couple of convicted drug smugglers, but they wouldn't help David Hicks or the founder if Wickileaks. David Hicks was denigrated by the PM and because US said he was guilty, he must be.

 

The Wicki founder is as far as i know still in hiding in an embassy in London, he is wanted for questioning in relation to sex crimes. Note for questioning, not to be charged. He knows the USA will grab him for Wickis releasing info to the press.

 

Note in both cases the USA is involved.

 

As far as respecting sovereignty the USA does not. They have marines in the NT and I bet that if they commit a crime here they will be whisked out of the country, rather than face an Aussie court. Remember the US Staff Sgt who killed so many civilians in Afghanistan and was taken back to USA. I wonder what happened to him.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

dutchroll says the Indonesian gov't is hypocritical because they try to save their own from death row in other countries. I find it amazing that our government can put on such a song and dance about a couple of convicted drug smugglers, but they wouldn't help David Hicks or the founder if Wickileaks. David Hicks was denigrated by the PM and because US said he was guilty, he must be.The Wicki founder is as far as i know still in hiding in an embassy in London, he is wanted for questioning in relation to sex crimes. Note for questioning, not to be charged. He knows the USA will grab him for Wickis releasing info to the press.

 

Note in both cases the USA is involved.

 

As far as respecting sovereignty the USA does not. They have marines in the NT and I bet that if they commit a crime here they will be whisked out of the country, rather than face an Aussie court. Remember the US Staff Sgt who killed so many civilians in Afghanistan and was taken back to USA. I wonder what happened to him.

Staff Sergeant Robert Bales was found guilty of the murder of 16 civilians. He did a plea deal to reduce the penalty from death to life without parole.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kandahar_massacre

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Can America have fewer prisoners without more crime?

[farri]

My point all along has been that I believe the execution, would make little or no difference, to the illegal drug trade.

 

Last night I watched the program on SBS One, called, Struggle Street.... The drug ICE is extremely addictive and has become a huge problem, not only on struggle street, but all over the country, so much so, that our government has put adds about it on TV..... To my knowledge ICE is manufactured in this country... One woman on the program said, "The only way to make money is to be a prostitute or a drug dealer."

 

Frank.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I mentioned the ICE meeting in Mount Gambier, 500 people and more had to be turned away - a bigger attendance than the Queen received.

 

ICE is tearing country towns apart; the expansion is exponential.

 

Victims of the violence which seems to go with ICE are children, family members, police, and ambulance members trying to treat the addicts.

 

I have no idea how many have died directly from the drug or from injuries sustained when the addict went berserk, but it would be more than two.

 

It is already too late to address the expansion of this drug through the community through our normal legal channels; we can blame parents, police, magistrates and prisons, but I'd suggest they have all been doing their best.

 

This is a wildfire out of control, so some serious lateral thinking is required.

 

 

[Teckair]

My point all along has been that I believe the execution, would make little or no difference, to the illegal drug trade.

Frank I am not sure how you think that, if I was thinking about smuggling drugs in Indonesia the risk of being shot who sure as hell would be a

 

deterrent. To me the only way to check on that would be to first try without the penalty and then with and compare the results.

 

 

[Russ]

Legalise the 3...4 main drugs used, it's made under controlled situations, it's pure, and make it free.

 

Bingo.......all the back yarders, the drug lords ( lords....who the hell knighted these pieces of shyte ) they are all finished. They're sure as he'll not going to be able to sell it..

 

Now., you've got folks getting clean/ pure drugs, you can now .....how ??....begin to educate them off drugs, they're no longer criminals, scared to seek help because of possible ramifications to themselves and their suppliers.

 

Ice.......it appears, is the one way path to self destruction, it takes no prisoners, you are doomed.

 

So let's think outside the box........maybe as above here.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Russ

 

Doesn't that sort of exist today? I'm pretty sure if people want to get off heroin they can take methadone under controlled circumstance for free.

 

However they aren't the same....as I understand it (thanks wiki) heroin has a faster and higher high, followed by a faster return to normal (???) where as methadone is slower on the up and slower on the down, presumably because its the fast up that people are chasing.......

 

What you are suggesting could only work if the broader public was happy for their tax's to be spent on free drugs for anyone who wants, and they would have to be taken/administered on the spot, otherwise youd have folks taking away pure and cutting it down with drain cleaner themselves.......

 

I guess the broader public would need to see that the cost of doing that is much less than the cost of the status quo.....Its quite possible that case could be made......but I cant help but feel its a bridge still too far for Australia yet

 

Andy

 

 

[farri]

Frank I am not sure how you think that

Richard, With all due respect, I`ll tell you how I can think that....The drug trade exists because of the huge amount of money to be made. To my knowledge, the real big players have private armies to protect their interests, they wouldn`t really care about those who are executed because they would know that there will always be those who think they are smarter or luckier, than the last lot....No more to be said on that.

 

Do you or anyone else know who the big players are in this country?.....I`m sure there are.....Who financed the drugs that were confiscated from Chan and Sukumaran?.......Surely! You don`t believe, those two would have had the money to buy them....I would say, and correct me if I`m wrong....The drugs would have been given to them and they would have got their share of money once the job was done..... Five individuals were caught for dealing, in one town I`ve lived in, (I won`t mention the town for obvious reasons), they turned out to be five of the prominent business people, in that town.

 

if I was thinking about smuggling drugs in Indonesia the risk of being shot who sure as hell would be a deterrent.

Two points here Richard, You weren`t the smuggler and the drug/s were not being smuggled into Indonesia..( I`m still talking about the two executed Australians ).... That country has been executing dealers for many years, yet they have a huge drug problem, it doesn`t seem to me that execution has stopped the dealers!...... Yes!..You can say, those executed won`t do it again and I suppose if you take that attitude, there has been some difference made, so, why then, is the drug trade flourishing?

 

Frank

 

 

[Russ]

Cocaine ,I'm told , is the " creme " of choice.....but expensive.

 

Heroin is like ice.......your doomed.

 

Weed.....don't know, but it appears govts are relaxing about usage.....world wide. Is it a path to other drugs....debatable. ( jury's still out )

 

Free up cocaine let's see what follows with it. We just have to eliminate those other 2 evil drugs.

 

Allocate mega $$$ educating our kids at school about drugs...be fair dinkum about it, maybe a class excursion or 2 and witness first hand, folks just hanging onto their pathetic lives as they inject themselves.

 

Shock the kids, scare the hell out of them, let them talk to the addicted, we've got to get serious....real serious.

 

 

[Teckair]

No I don't know who the big players are and I don't believe in shooting people and I don't really know why Indonesia does what it does, at a guess it could be something like this, they might think if they are harsh enough on the mules people will be reluctant to do it thus slowing the drug trade down. I would not be surprised if the chief of police is part of the racket and the executions were political grand standing. How can any of us know what really is going on? One thing for sure is I don't think we should legalize dope we have enough dopes as it is.