Quo Vadis?

[old man emu]

Look how effortlessly there was a transition of the role of the Monarch. Then look at the crap we had to endure to change the role of political leadership of our country. 

[facthunter]

The comparison is not valid. The Royalty has little influence in the day to day running of the Government. Much of Royalty is pomp and ceremony, which the Brit's do like NO OTHER. Our government can make or break the Country so the 'contest' has higher stakes. Murdoch has more power here than the Queen had and he's not an Australian by choice either.   Perhaps cut out the middlemen and appoint Rupee the King?  Nev

[red750]

There is a lot of anger - and joy - being expressed at the Queen's passing, in African nations, as well as here in Australia. 

 

NRLW player's "Dumb Dog" post.

[gareth lacey]

she has about as much aboriginal in her as i do 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

She certainly doesn't look too Aboriginal... But, is that really important. 

 

The Queen was a very public figure, and while most over her, some liked her, some didn't like her and even despised her. To some, whether their roots are what they claim to be or not, the Queen represented a regime that was imperial and oppressive, and their feelings may be guided by that. However, all the NRLW player did was express her feelings on the death of the Queen. She did not bring any bigotry into it, try and say homosexuals are bad and should be castrated, or anything else. Although, no doubt, she knew it would be controversial to post that it was a "f'n great day", was it merely more than an expression of her emotion over, in my humble opinion,  the sad passing of QEII?

 

Personally, I found the post offensive in two ways: 1) the passing of the queen was a source of joy; and b) the reference to the queen as a dumb dog. I can understand her feelings on the first point whether she is Aboriginal or identifies as being Aboriginal, but no one but heinous people deserve to be referenced like that, especially in their passing.. and quite clearly, Lizzie was far from heinous and the antithesis of dumb. But that is my opinion. People may agree with, disagree with, or be offended by the post for different reasons.

 

But, do we cancel her for saying it? My initial reaction was why can't sport put integrity over money for once? Then I thought about it, and it is her opinion expressed publicly of a very public figure. We complain people and institutions are too PC and easily offended. Yes, I am offended, but in this case, she is not calling for cleansing all monarchists, or gay people are wrong, etc.. she is expressing her opinion of an event and a person - something we all have a right to do. And, yes, it is a bit of an affront to most of us, but she is entitled to her opinion and to express it publicly, as others express publicly their opinions that she does not agree with. In this case, IMHO, stopping her playing is cancel culture - and the radio DJ shouldn't have even drawn attention to it.

Edited September 11, 2022 by Jerry_Atrick

[red750]

There is also contention over the minute silence at an AFLW game which caused the cancellation of the Welcome To Country ceremony, after which the minute silence was dropped from further matches, due to "cultural inappropriateness".

 

OK. It was unfortunate that the passing of the Queen coincided with the indigenous round of AFLW. But we have to put up with this smoking ceremony (I could call it a lot of other things) EVERY SINGLE DAY somewhere or other, sporting events, parliament, and so on. How many times do we have to be welcomed to country? And yes, the aborigines, and a lot of others, many be agrieved at the way they were treated generations ago, but are we going to be held responsible for it forever? I wasn't involved, my parents weren't involved, my grandparents weren't involved, and my kids weren't involved. 

[old man emu]

That young woman should be mourning the passing of the greatest woman of the past century. What a shining example Elizabeth II was to all women. At a time when women were supposed to stay home and serve their husbands, she took on the role of leading one of the most powerful political, economic and racially diverse associations the world has seen since the height of the Roman Empire. She held her own against powerful MEN, and as the years passed men who were supposed to be great leaders came to her for advice and guidance. And she did that for 70 years.

 

Look how leadership has aged every one of our Prime Ministers and every President of the USA often over a period of less than ten years. But Elizabeth II kept it up for seventy years.

11 minutes ago, red750 said:

the aborigines, and a lot of others, many be agrieved at the way they were treated generations ago,

Like you and me, was that her fault? Did she sit back and do nothing? Hell, No! She provided encouragement and support for every one of those "others" who had the belief that the training in government administration provided by the British Crown over the years prepared them for self-determination and government. And in cutting the strings of Empire, she replaced them with the bonds of friendship.

 

Women would do well to sing her praises from the highest heights

[Yenn]

The Aussie prime ministers may have aged over their time in office, but that was because their main aim was to be re elected. The Queen never had that problem. She had a job for life and did it magnificently, which is more than the PM's did in their short stay in office. She alone seemed to maintain sanity, while all around her the Leaders went mad.

[Jerry_Atrick]

I'm not arguing the validity of her opinion - just that she expressed HER opinion without bigotry or discrimination of another group. For that she shouldn't be cancelled.

[old man emu]

Just now, Jerry_Atrick said:

I'm not arguing the validity of her opinion

I didn't mean to argue that point. I was hoping to raise another point. 

As you said, she didn't actually directly say anything about the Queen. All she said was that an unspecified person was dead. Perhaps she found out that a really bad person in her life had died. Have we taken her out of context?

[Jerry_Atrick]

I think she was clearly referring to the queen.. And I think her opinion of the queen as representative of what was an oppressive institution is probably what drives her opinion. Opinions are subjective and what drives our opinions is mostly the weight our value systems apply to what we know about something, or it may just be something of our personality. In the player's case, it may be the ancestral ties to what she sees as a conquering and brutal regime.. Or, she may have some other reason - valid or not. 

 

I hate some foods - even though the nutritional value of those foods is very good. I can't stand the taste of tomatoes (unless cooked or bathed in sugar in tomato sauce). It's a personal thing.

 

My son hates all aircraft with plunger throttles (he doesn't hate them, but refuses to go into a Cessna).

 

[edit]

It is just her opinion...

 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Jerry_Atrick

[nomadpete]

I'm not offended by that mixed race girl's opinions. (I hesitate to consider her to be totally one race or the other race).

 

I am upset that it is ok for anybody to be so rude and disrespectful of one of our exemplary female elders, on public media.

 

If the shoe was on the other foot, and a anglo footballer spoke in similar terms, of one of the indigenous elders, there would be a disproportionate outcry.

[octave]

I don't particularly agree with the comments but I guess I would defend the right to make them and for people to express their disapproval of the remarks. i do however find it annoying that I am supposed to feel actual grief.   I do think the Queen did a pretty good job over a huge number of years and I have little negative to say against her personally.  If people actually feel grief that is fine.   I do appreciate the passing of an era an look forward in anticipation to what comes next.   The Queen was born into  wealthy circumstances, did her job admirably, lived a long and healthy life and passed away whilst still relatively mobile and certainly intellectually sharp.

 

I understand that others may feel differently and that is fine.  

[nomadpete]

Fair comments, Octave. And I am not offended in any way, because you expressed your opinion politely and respectfully. And without a single rude expletive.

[red750]

The girl is entitled to her opinion. It is just bad form to express it under the current circumstances. Keep it to herself. I see her as just another Adam Goodes. You don't hear CAthy Freeman saying things like that. She shows more propriety.

[Marty_d]

Whoa, that's a big call.  Adam Goodes was racially vilified and took a stance.   I don't think there's anything wrong with what he did.

[gareth lacey]

6 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

She certainly doesn't look too Aboriginal... But, is that really important. 

 

The Queen was a very public figure, and while most over her, some liked her, some didn't like her and even despised her. To some, whether their roots are what they claim to be or not, the Queen represented a regime that was imperial and oppressive, and their feelings may be guided by that. However, all the NRLW player did was express her feelings on the death of the Queen. She did not bring any bigotry into it, try and say homosexuals are bad and should be castrated, or anything else. Although, no doubt, she knew it would be controversial to post that it was a "f'n great day", was it merely more than an expression of her emotion over, in my humble opinion,  the sad passing of QEII?

 

Personally, I found the post offensive in two ways: 1) the passing of the queen was a source of joy; and b) the reference to the queen as a dumb dog. I can understand her feelings on the first point whether she is Aboriginal or identifies as being Aboriginal, but no one but heinous people deserve to be referenced like that, especially in their passing.. and quite clearly, Lizzie was far from heinous and the antithesis of dumb. But that is my opinion. People may agree with, disagree with, or be offended by the post for different reasons.

 

But, do we cancel her for saying it? My initial reaction was why can't sport put integrity over money for once? Then I thought about it, and it is her opinion expressed publicly of a very public figure. We complain people and institutions are too PC and easily offended. Yes, I am offended, but in this case, she is not calling for cleansing all monarchists, or gay people are wrong, etc.. she is expressing her opinion of an event and a person - something we all have a right to do. And, yes, it is a bit of an affront to most of us, but she is entitled to her opinion and to express it publicly, as others express publicly their opinions that she does not agree with. In this case, IMHO, stopping her playing is cancel culture - and the radio DJ shouldn't have even drawn attention to it.

I have no problem that she has the right to her opinion, but the inference of her aborignal ancestery has no bearing ,the media beat up, and she has no grievance with the monarchy the Queen didnt do anything to her, and no i am not a monarchist ,she was a mother nanna and died ,lets give her respect

 

[onetrack]

As the old saying goes - "Never speak ill of the dead". It simply reflects badly upon your character (or lack of it).

[Marty_d]

Depends who the dead is.  I speak ill of Jeffrey Epstein, and if his buddy Trump keeled over tomorrow I'd speak ill of him too, and not feel a moment's regret.

[nomadpete]

On 11/09/2022 at 11:52 PM, onetrack said:

As the old saying goes - "Never speak ill of the dead". It simply reflects badly upon your character (or lack of it).

I agree with that when speaking of most departed people.

 

But Marty's right.

 

When a neighbour of mine passed away his own neighbour said:-

"Well, old xxxx was a real ass. Now he's just a dead ass."

 

Unbeknown to many of us he had been a classic wife beater.

 

So, in some cases, what some might think is 'speaking ill of the dead' - is simply statement of a fact

 

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by nomadpete
spelling or speeling- you be the judge

[Yenn]

Why not speak ill of the dead, if you thought they were a holes in life why would you change our opinion.

The one thing that gets me with the dead is that there are some which we think we should have  commended while they were with us and regret that we didn't.

I have taken to talking to some of my friends and telling them that I respect them for what they are.

[nomadpete]

30 minutes ago, Yenn said:

I have taken to talking to some of my friends and telling them that I respect them for what they are.

We need more of that. Thanks Yenn.