PROPOSAL TO RAISE DRIVING LICENSE AGE

[onetrack]

The two greatest causes of the increased number of crashes with older drivers, is complacency, leading to bad habits, which increases their chances of a crash - and aged, fuzzy thought processes, which lead to delayed reactions. 

People who have been driving for a long time without oversight, develop really bad habits. They wander out of their lane, cross to the wrong side of the road constantly, unaware of how risky that manoeuvre is.

They start driving through stop signs at moderate speeds - "because there's no chance of hitting anyone there! - and besides, they shouldn't have a stop sign there, it's unnecessary!"

The same people drive through level crossings without boom gates, without checking for trains - because they've never actually encountered a train right at any moment they've gone through the crossing.

Then one day, a train travelling at speed wipes them out, because they've never looked for trains for 20 years, and they never expect one.

 

These older drivers develop bad habits such as cursory glances in the direction of oncoming traffic at all T-junctions, roundabouts, and other places of traffic conflict. Next thing - "BANG", and "Where did you come from??" is the shocked response.

I've had a little old lady pull out from a side street on my left, throw a glance in my direction (being only 50-60 metres away from her) - and have her pull out straight into my path.

Either poor vision, a bad habit of pulling out without a proper look, or just simply degraded judgement of the speed and closeness of oncoming traffic, being the reasons behind the dangerous move.

 

Older drivers are more easily confused by road design changes or new roads - particularly divided highways. The number of older drivers failing to observe road signage and layout, and who drive the wrong way up divided carriageways, is alarming.

As a result, regular driving checks should be carried out. I believe the Finns carry out driving skills checks every 2 years, and although I believe 2 year checks are a bit extreme, there is a need for regular driving skills checks.

 

https://www.hotcars.com/rigorous-driving-tests-may-be-the-reason-why-so-many-finns-are-great-drivers/

[old man emu]

Concerning Finland.

The population of Finland is currently about 5.5 million. Finland has one of the oldest populations in the world, with a median age of 42.6 years. Approximately half of voters are estimated to be over 50 years old. Finland has an average population density of 18 inhabitants per square kilometre. Is it any wonder that they can manage to complete revisions every two years. I couldn't find figures for the number of licensed drivers in Finland.

 

Using fatality statistics.

Over the past 40 years the number of road fatalities in Australia has dropped due to improvements in passive safety features of vehicles; application of modern road design where there were horse and buggy trails, and driver behaviour modification through RBT and rigorous enforcement of speed limits. More people survive what previously would have been fatal impacts. As a result of that survival, I would think that the number of people living with permanent disabilities as a result of collisions would have increased to fill the gap left by the fewer deaths. Therefore,  I believe that we should stop relying on numbers of fatalities alone, but include them in a category that reflects permanent disruption to Life. 

[octave]

20 minutes ago, old man emu said:

I believe that we should stop relying on numbers of fatalities alone, but include them in a category that reflects permanent disruption to Life. 

 Agreed.  The sources of data I have drawn from do include trauma and hospitalizations. https://www.bitre.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/road_trauma_2021.pdf     I would suggest that the methods of reducing the death toll would be the same as reducing the serious injury rate.   Of course some of those that would have died will now be in the severely injured category and those who in the past would have suffered major injuries now suffer more minor injuries   I don't know that is is particularly relevant to how we make driving safer but I guess comparing deaths plus serious injuries from past years would yield some interesting data. 

 

If we are talking of numbers of collisions some of the insurance companies publish interesting data. https://www.savvy.com.au/media-releases/australian-car-accidents-report-2022-statistics-deadly-causes-and-how-to-minimise-your-risk/

 

I think my point is that  improving road safety from fatale accidents down to fender benders benefits requires improvements in many areas such as technology, road design, driver attitudes and behaviors, driving skills etc.  This is my main point.  Relying solely on any one of these areas is a mistake in my view.

 

Gut feelings on how we reduce adverse events on the toad are interesting but it is the data the counts.   

 

 

 

[spacesailor]

The road toll !.

CAN , and would be reduced , if all drivers observed the current ' rules & laws ' .

BUT only NZ can lay claim to that victory! .

Zero fatalities without the government's involvement.

Just because of petrol shortage. Every one ' obeyed ' all those bureaucratic laws !

AND

Were extremely courteous .

spacesailor

Edited September 16, 2022 by spacesailor
Spelling

[Yenn]

The focus here seems to be compliance with road rules and actual proficiency in handling the vehicle.

I think we need to concentrate more on drivers mental ability.

When I drive I am constantly assessing what others are doing on the road and it amazes me to see the time lag between something happening and some drivers reaction. This applies to actions by other drivers and also to the driver himself doing something and not being able to work out if it is correct or not. A good example is the driver who wants to overtake. He will get a good long stretch of road, move out for a look and can't make up his mind, so he pulls back in, then repeats and finally overtakes just as he gets to where he is going to be the wrong side of the double lines. No doubt he would pass a test if he had to,but is he roadworthy?

Decision making and lookout are in my opinion are the most important factors, handling the car should be just about second nature.

[red750]

27 minutes ago, Yenn said:

it amazes me to see the time lag between something happening and some drivers reaction

As a passenger now, I often find myself putting my foot on the imaginary brake, as the driver takes so long to react.

[Jerry_Atrick]

I do that every time my partner drives

[nomadpete]

3 hours ago, Yenn said:

I think we need to concentrate more on drivers mental ability

A culture of safety, taught from early on, would improve the outcomes. Along with a wholistic approach to all aspects (as pointed out above, it takes all aspects to truly make for happy, safe motorists.)

[spacesailor]

The focus in Australia  !.

IS & always was !.

REVENUE.

On one Short, dead-end road, over 20 signs .

What a waste of tax payer,s money.

On any stretch of N S W road you have to keep your eyes glued to the speedometer. 

Also keep a sharp lookout for the thousands of speed signs ! . Or pay the revenue man !.

spacesailor

 

[old man emu]

4 hours ago, spacesailor said:

Zero fatalities without the government's involvement.

Zero fatalities cannot be achieved over the long term. There will always be a "background noise" of road fatalities as there is in every activity. The goal is to keep trying to reach that background noise level. In 1980, the number of fatalities in NSW was roughly 1250 . In 2021, with 5.8 million vehicles and 8.1 million people, the state recorded 270 road deaths, the lowest since that year almost a century ago. Perhaps 50 deaths per year is that background noise figure.

[spacesailor]

NZ statistics are online .

I can,t remember how long , BUT it was quite a few Months.

spacesailor

[Jerry_Atrick]

I have had a couple of accidents in my life that were my fault, despite getting something like 98 on my test. This is despite attending some RACV courses for new drivers. In the first accident, I couldn't have had my license more than three months. I was stopped behind a car that was stopped at a stop sign. The vision into the road we had to give way to was clear and there was no cars within koo-wee. His brake light came off and his car edged forward.. and so I predicted he would continue; so I started as well, while looking into the oncoming road to make sure.. and then a small bang as I bumped into him. Not much damage thankfully - but lesson learned.. don't assume people will drive in a logical manner. In this case, he stopped to check a rattle in his front door!

 

Second one was male bravado combined with fatigue.. wrote off the car - thankfully it was a rental. Quiet back roads, in a hurry, tired, with wet roads - what could possibly go wrong. Apart from the car, had to replace a dry stone wall.

 

Hey.. no one's perfect!

 

Had a few accidents that were not my fault.. where people came out side streets, or my favourite - someeone tailgating me on the motorway in really heavy traffic. Next thing, bang.. his car a write off, my car needing a new bumper bar... Although mine was an old banger, it was an Audi and cost him £600 (in the earlly noughties)

 

Edited September 16, 2022 by Jerry_Atrick

[octave]

For a comparison between Australia and other OECD countries International road safety comparisons 2019   Australia is in the middle of the pack, New Zealand is somewhat worse, well down in the liost with USA 

[octave]

I have lost control of a car on 2 occasions, one was a blowout of the front tyre.    I must take responsibility for driving rather faster than I should have been. Minor superficial damage.   On the second occasion I failed to notice a car that was waiting to turn right until the last minute I was only just able to steer around it but it was pretty scary.  Both of these incidents happened when I was about 18 or 19.

 

Between 1990 and 2011 we lived on a property 100km east of Canberra where we both worked.  Our daily commute was 200km all up and the drive home was at night.   This was on the Kings Highway which was notorious for fatal accidents.  Also many kangaroos.  In 21 years we only clipped 1 roo.  My agricultural neighbours used to say we were mad for not having a 4wd with a roo bar.  They would claim to hit one at least once a week. We accepted that at dusk we just needed to travel at a slower speed.

 

And that is it ............ except for one highly embarrassing incident.  Despite having never damage a car beyond minor cosmetic damage in42 years in December 2019 whilst visiting my son in NZ I was driving his 3 month old top of the line Tesla and at one of those weird Wellington steep intersections whilst negotiating a hairpin turn I clip a sign and put a substantial dent in the rear side fender.  I should mention that this car including the cost of importing was $103 000.    One of the worst days of my life. if it had been my car it would not have been so traumatic.      My son luckily is one of the most chilled and laid back people you could ever meet. His comments were "sh1t happens and that's what insurance is for"    I paid the excess which was $1000, we had just retuned from a tour of the South Island where we booked the accommodation so it turned out that he owed me $1000 so we called it quits.  i will say that for many months after I had disturbing dreams which usually involved me borrowing the Tesla and the vehicle driving off by itself and me having to tell my son that I had lost his car.

 

Now covid travel restrictions are over we are planning our next trip.  I have warned him of our impending visits and suggested that he should "wash the guest linen and up the car insurance" before we arrive.

 

Other than that my record is clean.

[nomadpete]

12 hours ago, spacesailor said:

The focus in Australia  !.

IS & always was !.

REVENUE.

On one Short, dead-end road, over 20 signs .

What a waste of tax payer,s money.

On any stretch of N S W road you have to keep your eyes glued to the speedometer. 

Also keep a sharp lookout for the thousands of speed signs ! . Or pay the revenue man !.

spacesailor

 

Add to that, we have a police force culture that is focussed on playing 'spot the infringement'.

 

A game that borders upon harrassment of motorists.

 

I thought their job was to use existing laws to protect the general public from harm caused by careless or thoughtless acts committed by individuals. Watching the Aussie TV police patrol shows them persuing and stopping motorists for such things as a defective tail light, which posed no real danger to person nor property.

 

They never set up a speed trap down our side street (across from a school) but frequently set one up at the end of a long incline on divided road where there was little risk posed by cars going a bit over the limit.

Focus was on easy pickings instead of stopping fewer but far more dangerous drivers.

[spacesailor]

RE

Taillight infringement  !.

I do seme the danger in seeing just the ' near side ' tail light , on a dark night & thinking it a ' motorcyclr ' .

The opossite occurs when a truck puts on it,s ' off side ' blinker ,Then overtake an "  unlit " rubbish skip .

Causing an impatient motor cyclist to speed up then crash into said skip .

( the truck driver admitted in court  to harrising  the victim before the crash  ),

Why ho why , arn,t skip bins AND ALL dangerous objects left in roadways lit up by " flashing hazard lights .

spacesailor

[kgwilson]

All of the highway patrol & most other police vehicles have cameras that scan the number plate & instantly report to the driver whether the car is registered or not, now that we no longer have rego stickers on the windscreen. A tail light or other minor thing could easily be an automated ticket to the offender, withdrawn if the tail light is fixed within 7 days & evidence produced. There are a multide of very minor issues that could be dealt with by technology and encouragement. This would probably need a bit of a culture change in the law enforcement area but it is possible. It is a bit like CASA & the NZCAA. One acts as like coach while the other acts like a policeman. No prizes for guessing which is which. 

Edited September 17, 2022 by kgwilson

[Bruce Tuncks]

Best wishes for your work OME. That stopping distance question was just what I reckon we should be using. If we did, I reckon we could have the best safety outcomes in the world.

[Bruce Tuncks]

Many years ago, I was in an old taxi, going to Benghazi from the airport.  The driver was not paying attention, he was lounging back and smoking, with one hand on the steering wheel. He was also doing in excess of 80 miles per hour. When I asked him to slow down, he made a big production out of stopping and opening the door for me to get out into the desert.

If I had known that Libya has the most dangerous accident figures in the world, I would have got out.

Arab countries in general have bad accident rates, apparently they believe that the time of your death is pre-ordained so there is no need to drive safely. I wonder why they do not have more formidable armies tho...

[red750]

I wonder what effect these glow-in-the-dark road markings will have on the road toll?

 

[nomadpete]

Do I have to switch my headlights off to see these glow-in-the-dark markings?

 

I can't wait to try it out!

[spacesailor]

I prefer " Screaming paint " .

Run onto the road edge marking, & the tyres on that pain make a loud ' Scream ' .

Quickly wakes you up !.

spacesailor

[onetrack]

While drivers still run off perfectly good straight highways, into trees, every day of the week, I'd have to opine that glow-in-the-dark line markings, are not going to make much difference to the road toll overall.

[Jerry_Atrick]

I did drive home from London quite fatigued last week, despite pulling into virtually every motoway services on the way (for my 160 mil trip, that was 6 stops - I missed two of them). My drive normally takes three hours give or take, but was about 4 this time as I did get a power nap at one stop for about 1/2 hour. Despite this, I can say the eyes were still wanting to firmly shut anbd I can't see flouro paint making an ioata of difference - in fact, it will probably make things worse as fatigued eyes don't like bright contrasts..

 

Where it may work well are wet nights where the white painted (often fade) road markings become hard to see.

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

Where it may work well are wet nights where the white painted (often fade) road markings become hard to see.

Yep. And perhaps by day as well because the  natural lighting during rain is pretty low.