Migrants taking our jobs

[facthunter]

They'll work cheaper to get HERE and that is exploitation of the individual and unfair competition with businesses that don't/can't do it. Nev

[octave]

2 minutes ago, facthunter said:

They'll work cheaper to get HERE and that is exploitation of the individual and unfair competition with businesses that don't/can't do it. Nev

 

I have worked in music teaching studios from 1990 to 2021 and the majority of my collogues have been either overseas born or second generation migrant.   Between 2000 and 2011 I would sit in on interviews for new teachers.  The owner had his house on the line to finance the business and so was keen to employ the best and brightest.  The pay scale was the same across the staff other than an incremental increase with student retention and time served.  The fact is that many of the  best and brightest happened to have been born overseas. 

 

 

This picture was taken at the end of year get together in 2021 when I  (mostly) retired.  These folks (in the picture) come from all over the world, China, Taiwan, South Africa, Brazil and more.  All employed because of their talent and dedication.   The owner put their house on the line to start this business so employing the best for the job was/is essential.   

 

[facthunter]

I'm not doubting what you say there but that is not always the situation. I'm not racist. I just know exploitation  when I see it. T A Bot specialised in it.  Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

I think (and stress, think,, or at least attempt to) that, as is almost always the case, it depends. 

 

Back in 2016, I think it was, the government relaxed visa requirements for unskilled work because there was a shortage (https://www.thinkingaustralia.com/unskilled-workers-needed-in-australia/). We can argue what caused that shortage and how best to remediate that shortage, but that is what happened. However, I read often that the LNP government was allowing the workers in, in an attempt to drive down the wage of unskilled workers. Whether that is true or not, I don't know.. 

 

I intuitively think that a large immigration number will depress low and semi-skilled wages. This is because intuitively, a large number of migrants are moving for a better life. However, I will admit that this is just intuition, and until we look at the numbers, we won't actually know. Remember, immigration is said to have a net positive impact on the economy. What that actually means, I don't know, but in theory, that means it has a net increase in wealth and hopefully a net increase in demand, which will balance out the net increase in labour supply. If I get time on the weekend, it sounds like an interesting bit of research.

 

The professions are a different story. As @onetrackmentions, they want the best people for the job - not the cheapest (of course, they won't pay over market rates). A friend of mine who has married a woman of Indian descent (she is a US, UK, and Indian Citizen, but 2nd generation UK) would not mind a move to India. He is an IT professional and she is a business manager or something. Between them, where they have about the same earning power, they can have a nice house with pool, couple of European cars, servants, easily afford the better private schools for their kids, etc. He is a white Aussie.. his preference is moving back to Melbourne, but would be very happy in India. So, many professionals coming over are not necessarily short of a dollar or have bad lives in their home countries.. sometimes, quite the opposite - but they are looking better overall quality of life.

 

In the UK, where if you think Australia has a lot of immigration, you are reasonably mistaken, I have two naturally born Indians and an Egyptian working for me. They are earning more than the British white fella working for me and while we don't pay the best in the industry, we certainly don't pay the worst. Our salaries are set by HR for the job level based on the market rates.. Australia is the same.. I have a good friend who is a recruitment consultant in Brisbane and they care crying for immigrants due to the skills shortage, and there is no difference to the local salaries. 

 

So, the answer is, it depends.. 

 

[pmccarthy]

My friends in India see employing servants as a social obligation. They have a driver, gardener, housemaids. Of course this is impossible in Australia where minimum wages are set higher.

[nomadpete]

1 hour ago, pmccarthy said:

My friends in India see employing servants as a social obligation. They have a driver, gardener, housemaids. Of course this is impossible in Australia where minimum wages are set higher.

That is a sort of 'lifestyle' or cultural expectation in some countries. And it is one aspect that some Aussie migrants ruefully miss after they get here. This was all explained to me many years ago by several ex South African couples. They had to make big adjustments.

However, in spite of missing their servants, they were here because OVERALL, they consider their life was better.

 

Every place has plusses and minuses, each must work out what matters most to them, and that is what drives the drifting population to relocate.

[Marty_d]

My father's brothers, sisters and cousins moved here from Sri Lanka about 70 years ago.  When they were in Sri Lanka they were "burghers"  (European extraction) and had servants for everything.

Dad told me about visiting his cousins shortly after coming here and seeing a pile of saucepans in their backyard.  Because they had no servants here, they had no idea how to clean a saucepan they'd burned something in (which happened quite often, as they didn't know how to cook either) - so they'd throw it away.

[red750]

Part of the problem is that we have to bring in migrants to do the jobs our toffee nosed young'uns won't put down their smartphones long enough to do.

[Old Koreelah]

I’ve been exploring central London for a week and the place is awash with hundreds of languages. Even more a melting pot than Sydney.

 

I seriously doubt Australia or some other rich nations could function without the drive and expertise of immigrants.

 

Our hotel staff are from dozens of countries, none of them rich. Are they exploited? Probably, but they get a start in a new country. Some will take home the expertise, experience and hopefully some savings, to invest in their homelands.

 

[willedoo]

12 hours ago, Marty_d said:

Dad told me about visiting his cousins shortly after coming here and seeing a pile of saucepans in their backyard.  Because they had no servants here, they had no idea how to clean a saucepan they'd burned something in (which happened quite often, as they didn't know how to cook either) - so they'd throw it away.

Sounds like they'd gone a bit potty.

[facthunter]

Perhaps they took the melting POT too literally? Nev

[Marty_d]

They called the kettle black... oops, that might be a step too far.

[Jerry_Atrick]

On 29/09/2022 at 4:00 PM, Old Koreelah said:

Are they exploited?

As is virtually every low-skilled and some professionals in the UK.. Why two adults working full time need food banks is beyond me..

[spacesailor]

Why should anyone get payed $53 million PA !.

Is beyond comprehension.  As the shareholder,s will only get a pitance back on their shares .

spcesailor

 

[Yenn]

The reason that someone gets paid $53 million is only to ensure the shareholders and workers don't get too much.

I am a shareholder and regularly decline to approve the big hand outs, but not enough shareholders do anything about the obscene payments. It wouldn't matter so much if the recipients paid their taxes and the taxes were sensible, but the LNP and it seems Labor want the trickle down effect to work. What a cock of -hit.

[spacesailor]

yen ,

Love your sentiment! .

Pay cuts for All the executives. 

More on the share dividend .

spacesailor

[onetrack]

It's never going to happen, the upper corporate culture is all about personal greed and more greed. Who remembers the Exxon-Mobil CEO who got a US$400M BONUS, when he retired?

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/anger-at-oil-chiefs-400m-retirement-package/OZFN7YQ7PZIPYXKQRXQWKS2VZQ/

 

Or the American CEO of Telstra who, upon retirement, demanded and got a PENSION of $1M annually for life! That deal lends a whole new world of meaning to the word, "pension".

 

https://www.fnarena.com/index.php/2006/08/04/how-telstras-sol-trujillo-became-the-us72m-man/

 

 

[Yenn]

Todays news is that house prices are falling and also that rents are increasing. I would have thought increasing rents would make houses more attractive to investors. The rent increase is supposedly due to increasing migrant numbers and for the month of September it is quoted at 0.6%. Doesn't sound much until you multiply it by 12 to get an annual rate of 7.2%

[red750]

House prices are falling because demand is decreasing due to  rising interest rates.

[facthunter]

I'd say people are selling when they realise they can't afford the Payments especially if Interest rises further. Nev

[spacesailor]

Keetings 17 .5 %,

The banks loved him. Took years to selloff the ' broken peoples ' homes less they flooded the market. 

That, I believe is what is happening now .

spacesailor

Edited October 3, 2022 by spacesailor
Spelling

[old man emu]

[willedoo]

On 03/10/2022 at 3:07 PM, spacesailor said:

Keetings 17 .5 %,

The banks loved him. Took years to selloff the ' broken peoples ' homes less they flooded the market. 

That, I believe is what is happening now .

spacesailor

Poor old Paul cops a bit of flack. He was treasurer in the Hawke government when interest rates reached 17%, but strangely enough nobody holds Hawke as PM responsible, only the treasurer. I guess one thing that redeemed Keating was that during the four and a quarter years of the Keating government, interest rates were never as high as they were in the Fraser government with Howard as treasurer. People tend to forget about Howard's 13%.

[spacesailor]

 ?

How can Fraser gov,s 13% interest be more than treasurer Keeting,s 17.5%.

And those banks acknowledged , they couldn,t put that huge amount of houses on the market, at one time ,as it would depress the market .

spacesailor

 

Ahh  reread the post &  acknowledge interest rates came down , AFTER a court case was won over a bank (  forgotten wording ).

Was forced to :: Brighton le sands two high $ earners coulden,t repay their loan at such a high interset rate .

spacesailor

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by spacesailor
More added

[Old Koreelah]

On 02/10/2022 at 12:52 PM, onetrack said:

It's never going to happen, the upper corporate culture is all about personal greed and more greed. Who remembers the Exxon-Mobil CEO who got a US$400M BONUS, when he retired?

The corporate world is overdue for a pay reset- before the mobs burn down their mansions!

 

Musicians receive Royalties from those who benefit from their creative efforts. Surely some bright spark can come up with a mechanism for remuneration of our corporate and political leaders, based on the long-term usefulness of their decisions?