Examples of corruption in Australia

[old man emu]

Poker machines are computer controlled, so the way they "play" is programmed when they are installed. The machine has to return a certain amount to the operator to cover operating, purchase or lease costs and taxes. Everyone would say that's fair. Let's say that amounts to 1% of the money put into it. So the best you can expect as a player is to get 99% of you money back. But the operator has installed the machine to generate income. I believe there are legal limits on the amount the machines must return to the player, and I think the least amount is 90%. So an operator can have the machine programmed to return anything from 90 to 98.9% of the inserted money.

 

The catch is, those amounts are calculated for the operational life of the machine. That's why, if you can use the same machine regularly, you have to lose your money. Also, those payouts adding up to the programmed return include all the dribs and drabs as well as the jackpots. That's why some days are diamond and some days are stone. Used as an entertainment device, pokies are about the bottom of the pile of arcade games because the player has no active input other than the press the <START> button.

 

However, to realise what pokies are, you have to be a critical thinker, and those sort of people are pretty thin on the ground.

[facthunter]

Haven't touched one for I don't know how long. I recall putting some change in at Mildura in 1997. I think that was the last.  Nev

[Yenn]

I used to play the one in the RSL at Cobar that accepted one and two cent coins and used to come out ahead just about every time. If I had the time and enough coin I reckon I could have made a living off it, but I reckon it was set up to pay out 99%.

[Jerry_Atrick]

I remembeer the good ol'; days wheen Victoria was free of them until Joan Kirner, I think, deesperate to top up state coffers, allowed them to be introduced. Virtually overnight, many great pubs weere turned into community wastelands of zombified gamblers pulling a lever all day. It also had a not too great impact on the NSW border clubs... Before then, they would put on free buses from metrpolitan centres carting mainly retirees for a day out to play the one-armed bandits.

 

My father used to utilise the service. For him, it was a nice day out - free bus, he would kick in a few dollars to the machines to contribute to the machines, a spot of lunch, catch the sights of whatever town he was in, and back in time for a late dinner.

 

As a young adult, I used to glide at Tocumwal, but stayed in town motels instead of on-field as my ex-finacee hated any form of flying. We used to eat at the golf club, which put on a decent meal at the time, and had an upstairs restaurant - I recall it being called something like The Rivergum. Once Vic allowed the pokies, they eventually closed the upstairs restaurant and the food at the golf-club deteriorated.. yet there was still a decent patronage of the machines. I put in maybe $10 to try them, but they held no real attraction to me - gambling never really has.. I occasioanlly by a lottery ticket when the pricee hts £130m or more here.

 

 

 

[red750]

My late wife loved to play them a few years ago. Did pretty well too, a few good jackpots. I hated them - the constant racket. I'd sleep out in the car or go home till she was ready to call it an early morning.

[old man emu]

I find the modern ones too hard to understand what they are paying out on. The electronic ones are bad as they give you RSI of the finger. At least you got some right arm exercise with teh mechanical one armed bandits.

[facthunter]

Just give them up. The ODDs are against you. It's daylight robbery and  destroys families. How'd you like to be married to a chronic Gambler?   Nev

[old man emu]

If I find one that I can understand how it works, I don't mind putting in a small amount as an entertainment fee. My Mum and Dad always instructed me that as soon as my winnings exceeded the amount I  started with, pull out what I started with and play with the machine's money. If that went, I had been entertained for free. If it kept growing, then occassionally take the equivalent to my starting money and continue playing with the machine's. At least you get an "even money" return. 

 

But still there is the caveat: Don't chase your losses.

[facthunter]

Gamble only WHEN you can AFFORD to Lose. It IS addictive too.  Nev

[pmccarthy]

You could do a double pull on the old mechanical ones and convince yourself that you were beating it. But you weren’t.

[old man emu]

21 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

You could do a double pull on the old mechanical ones and convince yourself that you were beating it. But you weren’t.

It was called "walking the wheels". Pulling on the arm gently to move the teeth of the gears out of their designed sequence.

 

I must admit that I prefer the sound of coins dropping into the tray than the "bing, bong, bouyng" of a digitally created sound.

[facthunter]

You're still hooked .You are only discussing the colour of the"Lure".   Nev

[onetrack]

I detest gambling establishments and casinos. They are full of unhappy, grim-faced, desperate people feeding all their financial assets into machines that are programmed to strip money off them

Then there's the urine-stained seats where chronic gamblers have pissed themselves rather than go to the toilet, and leave a "winning streak", or a "winning machine".

 

About 25-30 years ago, I used to entertain myself by going to the Burswood Casino in the evenings, because SWMBO worked afternoon shifts at the Telstra switchboard, and didn't get home until after 10:00PM. So, I'd spend 2.5 - 3 hours in the casino, betting on the money wheel, and sometimes the dice games. These games were reasonably fair, where you could sometimes win a bit, unlike the pokies.

 

I'd stand at the money wheel (you never sit, that's a mistake that keeps you there longer than you planned) and write down the numbers as they came up, and then start to bid on the 23 or 47 (the big numbers, of which there are only 2 of each on the wheel), when some time had gone by, and the wheel hadn't stopped on the 23 or 47.

As the number of spins went on, and the wheel still hadn't stopped on the 23 or 47, I'd keep upping the bet amounts - from $1 to $2, then to $5.

 

When the wheel finally stopped on the 23 or 47, I'd generally get back more than I bet (a $5 win on the 23 gave you $115, and a $5 win on the 47 gave you $235). I was simply utilising the law of averages - that the longer we hadn't had a 23 or 47, the higher the chance it would soon show up.

 

I went like this for about 6 mths, and probably 7 out of 10 nights I'd come home with a few dollars winnings, and share it with SWMBO - which she thought was great! Some nights I won $200 or more.

Suddenly, the casino mob did something to the wheel - tightened the bearings, or altered weights, or something. The wheel became completely erratic, and would not stop regularly on the 23 or 47.

 

I went there for another couple of months, and bet on the money wheel, and lost most nights. I reckon I ended up giving a large percentage of my winnings back to them, so I pulled out and stopped going there, and I've never been back in over 25 years. It didn't help that the casino pulled out their little dice games, and put in a heap more pokies, so that took every bit of fun out of it, for me.

 

Edited November 20, 2022 by onetrack

[Bruce Tuncks]

In maths class, years ago,we were taught that the "maturity of chance" idea was a fallacy. The odds of getting a heads in a fair coin had no relation to the history of heads.

BUT if you can increase the bet size so that when you eventually win you will cover the losses, then that will win. As long as you don't run into some imposed restriction. So good onyer onetrack. Personally, I would like to see the casinos having to return money to anybody on a list of problem gamblers. Anybody with a financial interest in you ( a dependent or creditor or landlord ) could put you on the list and they would take your money at their peril.

[old man emu]

9 hours ago, onetrack said:

They are full of unhappy, grim-faced, desperate people feeding all their financial assets into machines that are programmed to strip money off them

Which aerodrome do you mean?

[old man emu]

48 minutes ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Anybody with a financial interest in you ( a dependent or creditor or landlord ) could put you on the list and they would take your money at their peril.

Destitute wife -v- government licensed casino. It's odds-on who would win

[Bruce Tuncks]

At the moment, you sure are right OME. I would change it if I could.

[Old Koreelah]

Few politicians dare challenge the gambling lobby in Australia.

They’ve seen what happened to Andrew Wilkie and Nick Xenaphon.

[Bruce Tuncks]

Yep, you are up against big money and the electorate is really gullible. But I reckon Nick Xenaphon will return one day. I sure hope so, his " no pokies" party deserved better treatment than they got.

I liked Wilkie too, and didn't know he was against gambling. I like him more now.

[old man emu]

Don't forget how much flows into the government coffers from legalised vices. Even sex workers pay tax.

[Bruce Tuncks]

Asbestos, as in asbestos-cement, is another corruption thing. The stuff itself is not as bad as what you get naturally from the dust in the air. But there are a few rabid greenies out there as well as a bunch of bikies who have gone to tafe and got a "license" to overcharge for asbestos removal.

[Old Koreelah]

3 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Asbestos, as in asbestos-cement, is another corruption thing. The stuff itself is not as bad as what you get naturally from the dust in the air. But there are a few rabid greenies out there as well as a bunch of bikies who have gone to tafe and got a "license" to overcharge for asbestos removal.

Bruce I worked in an asbestos town and have visited the mine. Dust everywhere, piles of tailings that decades later still contaminate the surrounding land and passing wildlife. I got to know a few of the workers, but doubt many of them are still alive, let alone in good health. 
 

What is a “rabid greenie”?

[octave]

4 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

The stuff itself is not as bad as what you get naturally from the dust in the air. But there are a few rabid greenies out there as well as a bunch of bikies who have gone to tafe and got a "license" to overcharge for asbestos removal.

 

What Are The Risk Factors For Mesothelioma?

[old man emu]

Dust disease refers to the number of chronic lung diseases that are caused by inhaling certain dust particles. Not all dust is harmful, but it’s important to know what kinds of dust can have an impact on your health. Harmful dust particles include:

Silica

Hard metals, e.g. tungsten, cobalt, aluminium, & beryllium

Bagasse – the dry pulp left over after processing sugar cane

Cotton

Mouldy hay

Straw - Grain

Asbestos

Cutting, sanding, drilling or grinding dust

 

 

Benefits payable to a person suffering a dust disease fall under the Workers’ Compensation (Dust Diseases) Act 1942 No 14. This Act  shall be construed with the Workers Compensation Act 1987, hereinafter called the Principal Act.

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

I reckon that raw asbestos is the bad stuff. In combination with cement , it becomes a different material. So old K got the bad stuff and I hope he hasn't got mesothelioma.

Asbestos is a natural material and so is a constituent of dust at least in Australia.

On the farm, there was an old tiny farmhouse clad with asbestos-cement, and a nephew wanted to use this as a filming prop and burn it down. At the time I thought that a hot fire would liberate the actual asbestos fibers and so would be dangerous, so I vetoed the idea. Since then, my understanding is that even a fire which explodes bits of asbestos-cement ( steam from trapped water does this ) will not cause the liberation of the raw fibers.

Of course, you can't prove a negative so there would be people who blamed asbestos-cement for their mesothelioma.

I would wonder if those people really got their disease from AC or from elsewhere. Brake linings used asbestos, and the old drum brakes were blown clean at service time.

IF it is so bad, then the guys who spent all day drilling holes in AC pipes for irrigation schemes would have died like flies. They didn't. I dunno about brake guys, or traffic cops. It is bad to go out in a dust-storm I know, but I never heard about anybody getting a disease.

 

Here's a true story in case you are thinking I'm a saint.... We ( son ) got a contract to wire up ti-tree school for computers. ( the school is ten times too big, apparently some genius in Canberra got it mixed up with the ti-wi islands ). Anyway, the school is on posts with an asbestos-cement floor. This detail was not mentioned at the time of the tender. We drove back to Alice Springs and doubled the price to pay for asbestos gear and the danger.  I went along with the whole thing but the gear was unpleasant to wear and I hardly used it.