England is lost

[red750]

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I don't know who this person is, but one has to be careful of conflating the wider Muslim population with the tragfedy that has become Rotheram. I don't have tiome at the moment as I am just taking a lunch break, but my first  impressions is that this is twisting an event or events to vilify Muslims as a whole..

 

For example, there are only a handful of Muslin Housing associations, and guess what - they accept and place applicants of all backgrounds based on strict legal guidelines: https://tellmamauk.org/how-far-right-fake-news-continues-to-go-viral-on-twitter/ So, to say the stock is only available to Muslims is wrong. Of course, non-Muslims may be turned off applying through them, but, given there are Christian Housing Associations, undoubtedly one or two Jewish ones, and many run by charities of verious flavours, her claim is disingenuous at best.,Housing Associations are approved by government but not run by them.

 

Second - there is no area in the UK that operates under Sharia law. It is preposterous to even suggest it. Yes, houseeholds may hold them up to the standard - but - that is a personal choice. And, where the actions conflict with UK Laws, the UK laws prevail. I can quote many cases where this has been found, including the honour killings, etc. So, again, this is clearly not true.

 

Third - her implication is that only members of the Muslim Police Assocaton investigate Muslim crimes (and almost by implication only apply Muslim law). That is also a fabrication of the truth. The NMPA was established to bring about cultural awarness and liaise with Muslim community institutions. One does not have to be a Muslim to join, although I would guess most, if not all, are Muslim. It is more about community relations than law inforcement: https://muslim.police.uk/. So, again, she is trying to conflate things which are not there.

 

What is true is that there was gross, contemptible, and callous incompetence of and disregard by the police combined with a toxic culture was one of the primary factors, as was the overly racially sensitive approaches taeken. In addition, pollies not wanting to lose votes with local Muslims, as well as just political correctness seems to have been a problem. To his credit, Timmy Robinson, a right wing activist, kept the pressure up and wouldn't let go, but it gave the deiners more fodder to assert that racism rather than fact was behind it.

 

Although Rotheram was by far the biggest f***-up, it is not isolated, and it is not the preserve of Muslim perpetrators only. Although, it is fair to say that most of the others involve much smaller numbers of victims and over a smaller time scale.

 

The issues are policing and politics - vulernable only get the press coverage when something goes horribly awry (unless they are the perpetrators). Police capability and management has been degrading over many years - inder both Labour and Conservatives. Political correctness has been allowed to take precedence over the facts. This is another, albeit sad example of how our societies (in this case, the British - not just English) neglect the important things while they look after the unimportant.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Jerry_Atrick

[Old Koreelah]

Cultures change; new arrivals often adopt the best traditions of their

new nation. 

 

After a few weeks there, I’ve just left that Green and Pleasant Land and already miss the multicultural people. I heard lots of languages spoken in central London, although everyone we approached spoke English. Most importantly, they seemed to have quickly embraced the best in British culture.

 

Travelling with bulky luggage and a wheelchair in England,people of many races and religions ALWAYS came rushing to offer help. 

 

In my first few days crossing northern France to locate the war grave of a relative who gave all to defend that foreign land, the cultural difference is profound. We’ve struggled up and down stairs, onto buses and trains. NOT ONCE has anyone offer to help.

Yesterday we managed to carry our gear onto a double-deck express train. Young, fit men sat and impassively watched my desperate attempts to load my folded wheelchair onto the luggage rack. None moved to help. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Hard to give the right emojive response - like the fact you got assistance from Blighty.. Sad the French weren't quite so obliging..

 

But, it is sadly, not unexpected. My first weekend in Paris was with my partner about 25 years ago. We went to some bistro for lunch on a Firday in a working area to beat the tourist traps. I don't speak a word of French.. in fact Dell boy from Only Fools and Horses speaks better than I do.

 

Thisd restaurant only had the menu on the blackboard. My partner can read and speak a bit more French, but there were two items on the menu she did not know. So, I put on my worst Aussie accent and asked the waiter to translate the menu, and those very two items he did not. .He just said, "eye ahm not goooing to bozzer... u wornt laike zem anyvay.." Well, that riled me, as, when I am in a restaurant that doesn't have English menues, I normally point to what I want, not knowing what it is. In this case, ti was hard to point to a blackboard.. So I said, OK,  can we have another couple minutes and another waiter eventually turned up to take our order. I was still riled, so I said I couldn't remembe what those two items were. He was younger, so at least translated them.. and mumbled how we wouldn't like them anyway. Well, one of them was Ox Tongue, which was a delicassy at Cheateau de Jerry Atrick's Mum, and I immediately ordered it.. But I was patient as I didn't want to have them spit in my food on the way out..

 

As it turned out, the original waiter brought the food.. .He virtually threw the plate at my place. I looked up and said thank you.. "My mother used to cook this for us as a kid , and I loved it.. hope you'res is as good.." It was met with a grunt, and I gave him a wink as I tasted their house dross.. er wine.. to which I said.. "I'm from Australia, mate.. And I hate to tell you, the French no longer have a monopoly on fine food...." then the pause as I scrunched my face at the wine.. ".. and as has it.. definitely not good wine.."

 

I paid the bill, sans service charge...

 

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by Jerry_Atrick

[facthunter]

Paris is not the place to judge all French by. You also have to inform them you aren't Eengleessh..Nev

[Yenn]

Never been to Paris but I have been to the Dordogne area a couple of times and found the locals just as helpful as here, which is really helpful. I found if you couldn't speak the language you had to at least try to do so and all was good. If you just shout English louder you will be ignored and if you really make a mess of the language you will get a good laugh.

[spacesailor]

Story of London  !.

If you fall down, those Londoners will just step over you , bemoaning your roadside litter. 

 

spacesailor

[Jerry_Atrick]

7 hours ago, facthunter said:

Paris is not the place to judge all French by. You also have to inform them you aren't Eengleessh..Nev

 

I forgot to hit submit reply on this epiloqgue to my above comment:

 

I should moderate my above comment. I did a gig for Ralph Lauren which had me in Paris every second week. The office was on Venue Grand Armee, which is past the Champselysées walking from the main shopping district. The people in the office were really nice and helpful given my poor command of the French language (although I was beginning to be able to understand what I read - the pronounciation just confused the bell out of me). The office was in a large shipping company's offices and the staff bistro was amazing.. They had food from all reggions of France for a few Euros (they had just come into circulation); And you could get wine, from half-bottles all the way up to Nebuchadnezzar size.

 

As good as it was, I bored of it quickly.. and at lunch time took to walking the streets (for lunch!!!) The boulangeries (more delis than bakeries)  and although they couldn't speak a workd of English, and I couldn't sdpeak a word of French, point and click worked well, they were extremely courteous, always heaped on the food, and once "reserved" a table for me and didn';t allow some other customers who were abuot to sit at it.. So, even in Paris, you can find great people. I find the popular areas are the pain..

 

And I could move to provincial France in a heartbeat - if only the sspoke English 😉

 

 

[old man emu]

When in a foreign country, pretend to be a mute and carry a notepad and pencil. Humans respond to symbols before they respond to words.

[onetrack]

I found the French, even in Paris to be quite courteous - but I made sure I said "Parlez-vous Anglais?" in my best Aussie accent and often followed up with "Je ne parle pas français".

The largest number of French people I encountered in the service and tourism industry spoke quite good English, and they like Australians.

The Boulangeries and Patisseries of France are places never to be missed. French bread and croissants are out of this world, for taste and quality.

And the ladies in the cafes and lunch bars were always excellent to deal with, even when they didn't speak English.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Ahh.. so you mean, by saying, "Don't you accept dollars!!!???!!", I may have been predicating a snotty response??? 😉

 

(Just kidding, but as usual, there were retired yanks on their first jaunt outt of their state, let along country, that did just that!)

[Old Koreelah]

All these comments ring true; the people are mainly nice like most places, just nobody steps up to help when it is bleedingly obvious I needed it. 

Our family group discovered something interesting about language: greet locals in your best version of their lingo and they respond with a barrage of rapid and unintelligible French- our accent was too good.

They need to know you have little command of their language. 

 

Now that we have reached Paris, the traffic is a revelation. Vehicles of all sizes and speeds share the road and somehow just miss bumping each other as they change lanes, turn across traffic into side streets and exit huge roundabouts with no lane markings. Several cab and Uber trips have explained to me why the French, Italians, Spanish, etc have produced so many champions: their driving skills are amazing. More amazing is the self-control of cabbies from diverse ethnic backgrounds: never heard a raised voice!

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

5 hours ago, Old Koreelah said:

greet locals in your best version of their lingo and they respond with a barrage of rapid and unintelligible French- our accent was too good.

I learnt to greet locals with "Hi How are you?" in their language.. Even if they rapid fired back and I had to explain that was the extent of my knowledge of their language, they were still delighted I knew that much. When I was working in the Parisian office otr Ralphie boy, as meagre as my attempts were, I did try and speak French. When I worked in the Czech Repulic (Chechya now), I picked up a lot of their lingo, and it was a distinct advantage to the yanks who could not be bothered (as was the Aussie Passport). In Italy, I explained my Italian came largely fro Franco Cozzo ads.. they loved it. Even in Abhu Dhabi, I learned Salam, which is a peaceful greting.. that's all it took..

 

My favourite recollection was my second getaway with my current partner. I hate, with a vengeance, those southern Spain and Portugese tourist traps for the Brits and Germans.. But I wanted to visit Portugal and went to an "up market" travel agent who booked us into a "resort".. which was.. one of those el crappo tourist areas where there wre German taverns on the right, and British pubs on the left, with ferals from both countries in between. My partner and  I found an Italian restaurant on our first night, so decided to eat there.

 

It was, after having been to Italy a few times, difficult to call it Italian.. unless cheap ham and rubber cheese suddely was accecpted by the Italians. At thje end of the very odinary meal, as the largely disinterest waiter was taking away the plates, I said, "Excuse me, how do you ask for the bill in Portugese?". Well, we stopped dead in his tracks, purposely put the dirtly plates down, leaned forward to me, and in a rather, to me, irritated tone, said, "Do you know, I have had this restaurant for over 20 years, and not one... NOT ONE person has asked me how to ask for the bill in Portugese!!" In all honesty, he looked like a man posessed.. so to defuse the situation, I responded that I was sorry - it's just that I like to learn and live the culture where I go..

 

After which, he produced a cheeky grin and told me the hoe to (Accounto, and I can't remember the word/s for please). So I responded, and he whisked the plates away.. When he returned with the bill, I explained that I wanted to experience the real Portugal, and that the travel agent sent me to the European equivalent of boganville.. He gave me great advice, but invited us back the next evening for real Portugal food.. The next evenign was a feast, where even those draped in Manchester United and Bayern Muncih football shirts started salivating.. And he did not charge us. We ended up eating there every night (paid); his choice and some of the best food I have had.. for next to nothing.

 

Sadly, a lot of people probably refrain from helping because we are not taught that it is good.. Lots of first wave immigrants don't come from the litigous worlds.. so they are less inhibited.

[Bruce Tuncks]

Yep, the fear of litigation makes cowards of us all. I sometimes wonder if the good old days before litigation were really better, and my answer is :"to most people, things were better back then"

These were the days when we grew up, with much more freedom than kids today have.

"Most" but not all. For example, if you were injured at work, you didn't think of suing but  maybe you would not have been given such a dangerous job nowadays. Apparently there were lots of avoidable injuries back then.

I wish I could think of a way out...  in some situations, I would like to be able to sign a form which was an agreement not to sue. Apparently, this has been agreed to by the high court, and without this we would not be able to do a tandem parachute jump, for example. But this finding was very restricted, though I think the gliding people reckon that joy-rides in gliders are covered.

I would like this to be extended to cover much more, like being a spectator at hot-rod races, to use an example that turbs experienced. Wherever the risk is ( or should be ) obvious and the patron is not forced to go there, why not?

This would mean that only employees would be covered, and this would be correct. I dunno about kids.... they can be injured as a result of their stupid parent's decisions.  But what if the parents had voted for a government which sent them to war? Would they be  able to sue?

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

The last point got me remembering about a medical person who was to be sent to fight in a non-declared war in the middle-east. He tried to sue, but  at the  court-marshal, all of his international law experts were deemed to be unnecessary and were not admitted. I wonder what happened to the guy....

[pmccarthy]

We employed a chap who had a medical condition and signed an agreement to hold us harmless if he died. When he died his relatives sued for compo. Apparently he could not sign away the rights of his relatives.

[Bruce Tuncks]

Gosh pm, I guess the rellies were dependents? That was a tough situation, was the death from the medical condition?

[pmccarthy]

It was his heart. He was a WW2 VC winner, so much loved by the community. I don't think the rellies were dependents, but they were beneficiaries of the will which benefitted from the payout.