2022 Victorian State Election

[red750]

OK. OK I get it. If you are old, have a disability or are unstable on your feet, forget it! Stay home!

 

Otherwise pay a fortune to companies like Wilson Parking - if you can get a space, or park out in the suburbs in front of someone's home who is going to complain to the council, and pay god knows what for a bus or tram. Stiff shyte if your specialist or someone you have to see has their office in the CBD.

 

Wilson Parking = licence to print money.

 

This goes back a couple of years, but my wife had to see a professional in the CBD. I had to double park so she could get out of the car, then drive out of the CBD till she phoned and said she was ready to go home. Then double park, or stop in a bus stop for her to get back in the car.

[octave]

I have an E bike which contrary to what some people believe is a great form of exercise and transport.  In 18 months I have done almost 6000km lost about 5kg and despite cardiac problems I am pretty fit for my age. 

I think the safety problem is probably a little overstated.  Sure the lycra folks riding at high speed in densely packed traffic probably have a higher risk of an  accident however care in route planning and good modern infrastructure makes my journeys pretty safe.  I use my bike for most of my trips around Geelong.  The traffic moves relatively slowly and I can move pretty fast.  In my 6000km I have not had any life threatening incidents. 

 

The point is though that the better bike infrastructure we build the safer it will be and the more people will cycle.   The statistics for Melbourne suggest that  over 29000 ride to work.  This figure is quite old (2016) and there has been a huge uptick since covid.  These are people who could drive to work putting 30k  cars on city roads  but surely no one wants that. 

 

There is a term in politics called "bikelash" This is where some people complain about new bike infrastructure however councils who build bike infrastructure tend to get re elected.    

The bikelash paradox: how cycle lanes enrage some but win votes

 

My son (a Kiwi now) has just returned from 4 months in the US. Some of this time was spent in LA.   He found it frustrating that walking or cycling is almost impossible there.  I do hope when wont go in that direction.  On the other end of the spectrum or European countries such as Holland where the majority of people ride bikes.  The infrastructure is bike friendly and there are plenty of bike parking facilities. 

 

I think we are better following the European model rather than the US model. 

 

 

 

 

[octave]

11 minutes ago, red750 said:

OK. OK I get it. If you are old, have a disability or are unstable on your feet, forget it! Stay home!

 

Otherwise pay a fortune to companies like Wilson Parking - if you can get a space, or park out in the suburbs in front of someone's home who is going to complain to the council, and pay god knows what for a bus or tram. Stiff shyte if your specialist or someone you have to see has their office in the CBD.

 

 

The better the infrastructure for micro transport (bikes mobility scooters etc) the fewer cars on the road.    Banning bikes in the city or taking away bike infrastructure will only force more cars into the city.   I take your point that everyone cant cycle or walk.  I can see great advantage in building up "micro transport facilities and public transport"  and leaving car park spaces and road space for those who actually need these things.   

[red750]

I'm 78 and haven't ridden a bike since I was in my teens. I now need a handrail or something to lean on to walk any distance. I can get to the letterbox and back, but that's about it. I started wobbling drunkenly about six years ago. To walk up the street for exercise, I need a four-wheel walker. When shopping, I use a trolley for support. The doctor says the lack of balance was caused by my cancer treatment. Platinum affects the inner ear. 

 

Bikes aren't so great for a daily commute if you live 25 km from the office. Working from home is a boon and reduces traffic and saves on parking. My son loves it. Thank god for the internet.

[octave]

12 minutes ago, red750 said:

I'm 78 and haven't ridden a bike since I was in my teens.

Red I am not saying that you must ride a bike. Surely though it is in your interests to support infrastructure that reduces the number of cars on the road.   If you and I are going to the same location and there is only one car park left, isn't it a win win situation if I can leave my car at home and ride my bike leaving  that one car park free for you?

Edited November 30, 2022 by octave

[willedoo]

Holland is the place to go for bike lanes. I was there in 1985 and they were everywhere, even on the country roads. In Amsterdam the council provided free bikes for use around the city. It was a free for all system. You just grabbed any unattended council bike and pedaled away. If you parked outside a shop to go shopping, most likely the bike would be gone when you came out, so you just look for the next bike you can find. I thought it was a good system.

[old man emu]

I was in Sydney last week and walked from Central Station through Haymarket to the Powerhouse Museum. It was a bit after 8:00 am on a Friday morning and I was amazed how quite it was, and that there was nothing on George Street but the Light Rail cars. I was told that the daily influx into the CBD has dropped since COVID allowed people to work from home. That aside, closing George Street has made it a completely different city than the one I grew up with. I liked it. However, the danger from moving vehicles has been replaced with the danger of colliding with some ning-nong who is head down over a mobile phone. The numbers of these people constantly engaged with a communication device while I was not made me think that I must be a most insignificant person in this Society since I wasn't constantly communicating.

[Bruce Tuncks]

Octave is quite correct in that it is dangerous to ride a bike on many roads. I have an E-bike here which has to mix it with trucks on a single-lane road to go to town. I would like to ride facing the traffic ( ie on the rh side of the road) but then the cops would get me too. So I drive the car to town.

There are places where you don't have to do this. Canberra, for example, has a network of tracks which are well off the roads.

In some places, a smart govt could make (parallel to main roads ) side streets into cul-de-sacs with bollards, which would turn the street into a better and bike-friendly and kid-friendly place.

In SA, there was a case where a drunken lawyer killed a bike rider and got off quite free. He has since made a lot of money as the expert lawyer for road cases. One trick he did was to delay turning himself in till his blood alcohol was low .

[old man emu]

3 minutes ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

One trick he did was to delay turning himself in till his blood alcohol was low .

I hope they hit him with a "Fail to stop and render assistance"

[Bruce Tuncks]

They tried, but he said that he " had gone into a fugue" and so he went instead to a lawyer mate's place.

[onetrack]

I don't mind the bike lanes, but I hate the other idiot designs of road changes. Speed bumps 200mm high every 100 metres. The bloody roads are for driving on, yet these car-hating idiots do their best to make them totally unusable!

A lack of turning lanes, when they have managed to install massive, wasteful median strips or just cross-hatch painted areas you can't drive on, that are just simply a dead loss. At least the Poms have the turning lanes setup worked out

 

Now we've got a local (arterial) street that wasn't wide enough for two lanes of parked cars, plus two lanes of cars, trucks and buses, so the planners pulled this stunt of moving 400 metres of the roadway over to one side, then the next 400 metres is over to the other side - then back again - all the way up the street! - so they could install "protected parking" in strips, each side of the street!

 

This idiotic design has the effect of aligning oncoming traffic, head-on into each other!! What kind of total idiocy prevails in these traffic-planning depts??

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@-31.921987,115.8755919,3a,75y,228.64h,74.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKGqFGMcUvLu_RKRbHI7A2w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by onetrack

[Jerry_Atrick]

12 hours ago, red750 said:

I guess i'll pull my head in and shut up. Obviously in the wrong camp.

The intention wasn't to achieve this, sp pls don't pull your head in... And for me, anyway, it's not about being in a camp - I have voted both sides when they offered the better option - to me. And to be honest, it is hard to accept facts, when they are against our grain of thinking, or put another way, it is easier to accept facts when they enforce our biases. I know I do, and have attreacted rebukes accordingly.

 

This is a great forum where we can express our opinions, and yes, people will agree or rebuke. But if we stop talking, we will just live in  our won echo chambers.

 

BTW, this clip contains an interesting peice from 16:50 about changing peoples minds... (in fact the whole clip is interesting).

 

 

 

[octave]

12 hours ago, red750 said:

I guess i'll pull my head in and shut up. Obviously in the wrong camp.

 

Red, I would defend your right to express you political views just as I am sure you would defend my right to express my political views.  If we put our ideas out there we must both expect to have to debate them and with compelling evidence perhaps even modify our views.

 

The echo chamber can be a real problem for all of us. Most of my friends are progressive centre left leaning people. This means that sometimes I am surprised when I hear the views of more conservative people.  This echo chamber problem cuts both (all) ways.

 

In the recent Victorian the majority of people voted to return the government.   It can hurt to be on the side that is not voted in but we all face that from time to time.

 

I don't usually talk about my voting habits but I will say being a progressive person I could not bring myself to vote for a conservative party.   Apart from that there were simply too many far right religious nutters standing for the Libs.  

 

Although I voted for small parties and independents my preferences helped return the government. When it comes to issues like The  Voluntary Assisted Dying Laws or women's reproductive rights and many other things I am just not on the same page as conservative politicians.

 

Towards the end of the election we had a media campaign spruiking rumour and innuendo with no evidence.   These conspiracy theories  were reminiscent of Trumpism as far as I am concerned should not be rewarded.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[red750]

I guess you could say I'm slightly right of centre. No, I don't support or agree with Morrison, Abbott and Co, sometimes I think they as looney as Trump. On the other hand, I just can't bring myself to vote for the left. Going back, my father and grandfather were farmers and voted for the Country Party. Perhaps that is where my leanings are founded. As as for the myriad of minor one-trick-ponies, they are just a waste of time and oxygen.

[old man emu]

Red and Octave, your dilemma is the dilemma of many of us. Basically you both are Moderates, searching for a leadership that is equitable to all. I bet you both roll your eyes at the antics of the immoderates on your own side of the line. Neither of you would want to be governed by the unelected, but governance will always be backed up by force from some source, be it strength of arms or strength of wealth.

 

There will be things that you can both agree on. Is either of you against the concept of a Federal ICAC, or equitable taxation. How similar are your ideas on Foreign Policy and military alliances? Your debates over the nuances of governance are welcomed. Just remember that the Golden Rule of effective debate is, "play the ball, not the man".

 

Many of us hold onto the political alliance inherited from our parents, more tenaciously than their religious affiliation. To abandon that seems heretical, but, provided one does not follow "false prophets", informed debate may lead to political rebirth. 

[nomadpete]

7 minutes ago, old man emu said:

Red and Octave, your dilemma is the dilemma of many of us.

Nuf said.

[old man emu]

1 minute ago, nomadpete said:

Nuf said.

Moi, aussi.

[facthunter]

Corporations already have too much power, Democracy is "of the People." That is the main issue and secret churches exerting their Covert influence. Beware when they "Go for the Man' and not policies. There's hardly any truth written in the current media also. NASTY politics  are never edifying. Decent Politicians don't resort to it.   Nev

[old man emu]

2 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Decent Politicians don't resort to it.

Decent people don't get to be politicians. There's muck behind every politician or they would not have got the support to be elected.

[Old Koreelah]

24 minutes ago, old man emu said:

Decent people don't get to be politicians. There's muck behind every politician or they would not have got the support to be elected.

Taking it a bit far, OME. Although I agree many pollies are far from clean, we are fortunate to have had several decent people elected to parliament. 

[old man emu]

If a person's dream was to serve the People, the person would be working as a volunteer for some good deeds organisation. Politics is about gaining power, whether for oneself or for one's team. Politicians aren't labeled "golden-tongued" for nothing. As one definition of "golden tongue' has it: Being able to verbally spin any situation into your favor regardless of the insurmountable odds.

[facthunter]

It's a thankless task unless you p(w)ork the spoils of Office tack. It's fairly clear who most of them are, but they just carry on regardless with media support. They ARE in the minority but give the others a bad name. . Politics DOES change things That's why so much money is involved in the Greed worshipping STATE of the USA in election propaganda and MONEY.  Nev

[Marty_d]

10 hours ago, old man emu said:

Red and Octave, your dilemma is the dilemma of many of us. Basically you both are Moderates, searching for a leadership that is equitable to all. I bet you both roll your eyes at the antics of the immoderates on your own side of the line. Neither of you would want to be governed by the unelected, but governance will always be backed up by force from some source, be it strength of arms or strength of wealth.

 

There will be things that you can both agree on. Is either of you against the concept of a Federal ICAC, or equitable taxation. How similar are your ideas on Foreign Policy and military alliances? Your debates over the nuances of governance are welcomed. Just remember that the Golden Rule of effective debate is, "play the ball, not the man".

 

Many of us hold onto the political alliance inherited from our parents, more tenaciously than their religious affiliation. To abandon that seems heretical, but, provided one does not follow "false prophets", informed debate may lead to political rebirth. 

Well said, that man.