Etymology ain't nothin' to do with insects

[old man emu]

You blokes have got me going off on a new and interesting track - the origin of, and evolution in meaning of, words and phrases. So I thought I'd rope you in to go looking at the words we use.

 

British infantry regiments were the  in Victorian times were called "Regiment of Foot", hence "foot soldier". But where does "infantry" come from. It's a childlike word if you look up its etymology.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/infantry#etymonline_v_6431

 

"Rope in", in the sense of gathering in or enlisting, is a bold metaphor derived from the common practice of gathering the cut hay of a meadow by means of a long rope, drawn by a horse’.(orig. US, 1872)

 

 

[facthunter]

ADULTRY didn't sound right. Nev

[Yenn]

OK so where does causeway come from?

[old man emu]

causeway = cause + way

a dry passage over wet places or along the top of an embankment, 1570s, from Middle English cauceweye "raised road" (mid-1400s). 

 

"cauce", Anglo-French cauce, Old North French cauciee (12c.) originating in Late Latin calciare "to stamp with the heels, tread" (on notion of a road or mound across marshy ground)

"way", Old English weg "road, path; 

 

BONUS POINT: "weg" -from Proto-Indo-European root wegh "to go, move, transport in a vehicle." So weight anchor, me hearties! Why? Cause why.

 

 

[old man emu]

4 hours ago, facthunter said:

ADULTRY didn't sound right. Nev

"Voluntary violation of the marriage bed," c. 1300, avoutrie, from Old French avouterie (12c.), from Latin adulterare "commit adultery; corrupt," As a crime, formerly classified as single adultery (with an unmarried person) and double adultery (with a married person). The Old English word was æwbryce "breach of law(ful marriage)" 

 

In Middle English, also "sex between husband and wife for recreational purposes. 

[facthunter]

isn't it, "NO sex please . we're British"?    Nev

[Marty_d]

13 hours ago, old man emu said:

"breach of law(ful marriage)" 

Was it still a crime if it was a "breach of awful marriage"?

[Old Koreelah]

20 hours ago, old man emu said:

"Rope in", in the sense of gathering in or enlisting, is a bold metaphor derived from the common practice of gathering the cut hay of a meadow by means of a long rope, drawn by a horse’.(orig. US, 1872)

We were taught that in ancient Athens, some citizens had to be publicly shamed into exercising their democratic rights. When a vote was due, slaves carrying ropes soaked in die would coralle the recalcitrants, “roping them in’ to their responsibilities.

[facthunter]

Better use the right DYE.  Nev

[onetrack]

So, where did "dyed in the wool" come from?

[facthunter]

99% of wool would be dyed.  If it was wash proof it was called "Fast".. Nev

[Yenn]

No sex please, we're British take me back. I was on holiday in England and decided to go to London to see that show. We got off the train and decided we would do the last bit of the journey by bus. So on the bus we get and there is a rolling electricity blackout. So we don't move, no traffic lights but plenty of traffic. Talking to the others on the bus we realized that we were the only people on the bus who had been born in Britain and we were the only ones not living in Britain.

When we got to the theatre in plenty of time, the show was hilarious. I don't know when it was but the main topic of conversation in Britain was would Idi Amin come for the CHOGM meeting? He didn't.

[old man emu]

Here's a word I used today in a post - "culvert". You would think that it involves some word related to "cul" and "vert". 

 

"Cul" comes from from Latin culus "bottom, backside, fundament," from PIE *kuh-lo- "backside, rear", source also of Old Irish cul "back", so that's no use.

"Vert" "to turn in some direction," 1570s, from Latin vertere "to turn" from PIE root *wer- "to turn, bend". That's a possibility.

 

However, the sources say: origin unknown; Oxford English Dictionary calls it "A recent word of obscure origin." Perhaps it is the name of a long-forgotten engineer or bridge-builder as it is first recorded in  1773 meaning "a drain of brickwork or masonry under a road, railroad, etc." The extensive use of rails to ease the movment of materials on wheeled vehicles began in the mid-1700s, so a 1773 source is realistic.

[pmccarthy]

A quick search turned up this April 1770 reference "4 employed on the Trent from Wilden to Gainbrough ; 66 Locks finished ; 145 Carriages, Foot Bridges, and 142 Culverts."  Plenty of Culverts before that, but they were all surnames. My Father in Law first name was Culver and I often wondered where his name came from.

[onetrack]

I'd suggest the origin of "culvert" is via coupling the French "couler" ("to flow") with the Latin "vertere" ("to turn"). Early culverts were essentially small masonry tunnels.

[old man emu]

In the 1841 English census the name, Culvert, is rare, and mainly associated with Yorkshire. After that, the total numbers increase, but seem to have drifted into the industrial counties and London

https://your-family-history.com/surname/c/culvert/?year=1851#map

 

"Culver" as a surname is assocoiated with doves, from Middle English culver, colver ‘dove’ (Old English culfre). It's probably an occupational name for the person who cared for doves, as a food source for the rich, and dovecotes where the doves lived.

[old man emu]

Eunuches is he þat is i-gilded, and suche were somtyme i-made wardeynes of ladyes in Egipt.

 

Interesting word "eunuch". As a first thought you might think that it comes from the combination of the Greek eu-, meaning "good" and a corruption of "nick", "notch, groove, slit," (mid-15c.), nik, nyke, a word of unknown origin, possibly from a variant of Old French niche. That could describe the process. However, the Romans had eunuchus, from Greek eunoukhos "castrated man," originally "guard of the bedchamber or harem," from eune "bed," + -okhos, "to have, hold".

 

Harem attendants in Oriental courts and under the Roman emperors were charged with important affairs of state. The Greek and Latin forms of the word were used in the sense "castrated man" in the Bible. However they also translated the  Hebrew saris, which sometimes meant merely "palace official," probably without an intended comment on the qualities of bureaucrats, as I used it in the Victorian Elections thread.

[Marty_d]

Something you're trying to tell us, OME? 😁

[facthunter]

It's subliminal.. If some one's ballsy it's not the same as Nutty.  Nev

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

If some one's ballsy it's not the same as Nutty. 

 

NUTS(adj.)

"crazy, not right in the head," 1846, from earlier colloquial or slang be nuts on "be very fond of" (1785), which is possibly from nuts (plural noun) "any source of pleasure or delight" (1610s). Nuts as a special treat or favorite foodstuff led to other figurative phrases, now obsolete. The "crazy" sense probably has been influenced by metaphoric application of nut to "head" (1846, as in to be off one's nut "be insane," 1860). Also compare nutty. Nuts as a derisive retort is attested from 1931.

 

Connection with the slang "testicles" sense has tended to nudge the word toward taboo territory. "On the N.B.C. network, it is forbidden to call any character a nut; you have to call him a screwball." [New Yorker, Dec. 23, 1950] "Please eliminate the expression 'nuts to you' from Egbert's speech." [Request from the Hays Office regarding the script of "The Bank Dick," 1940].

[Marty_d]

So "The Bank Dick" turned out to be nutless.

[old man emu]

[old man emu]

And the word for today is "rub", as in Hamlet's view "-ay, there’s the rub!”

 

Hamlet was using it the late 1500s sense of an obstacle, or inequality on ground, especially in the game of bowls. It referenced something that slows or deflects a bowl, on the notion of "rubbing against" it. The term is also used in modern golf, where the phrase "the rub of the green" may denote a flaw in the playing surface.

 

This idea of the effects of two things in contact gives rise eventually to the word "rubber", which describes an item made from caoutchouc, (India rubber), so called because it originally was used to erase pencil marks from paper, etc. As its properties became known, Indian rubber was used for those many things we know of today. One of those products has acquired a slang name on one side of the Atlantic that causes Americans to do a double-take when speakers of the King's English refer to an item required to erase errors - not prevent them

 

Since the word appears in Hamlet's "to be, or not to be..." speech, which is about suicide, it's not likely that he has just found something needed for a later assignation with Ophelia.

 

[Marty_d]

Such a turn of phrase OME.  If you'd been my history teacher in school, it wouldn't have been as boring.

[red750]

Smart Alec.

 

The Ordinary Phrase:Smart Aleck.

Smart Alecks are too clever for their own good without being that clever to begin with. The insult is dismissively applied to those who think they know everything. The real Alec probably wished he was a little bit smarter.

 

The Unordinary Life: 

 

Alec Hoag was a prominent criminal in 19th century New York. Hoag’s wife, Melinda, disguised herself as a prostitute. While the johns were obviously distracted, Alec pilfered through their pockets. Because Melinda could be easily identified, to keep the business flowing, the police received a portion of the profits from the stolen goods.Hoag improved upon his scheme with a move called “the panel game.” In the middle of a tryst, Alec again took the valuables out of the discarded clothes of the unsuspecting mark. He then barged in the room accusing the man of sleeping with his wife. The adulterer would pick up their clothes and escape without thinking of their missing items.Eventually, Hoag made enough that he thought he no longer need law enforcement’s help. They disagreed. Alec and Melinda were quickly arrested. Mocking him, the police ironically referred to him as “smart Alec.” The phrase entered the lexicon shortly after.