The Lord works in mysterious ways

[old man emu]

The 8th December is the feast of The immaculate Conception, when Mary became pregnant with Jesus. The 25th December is the birth day of Jesus. The two events are 17 days apart. That's a rather quick gestation period. If God can do that for his Son, why does it take his Creation nine months?

[rgmwa]

I think the dates of both events have been unreliably reported.

 

[facthunter]

Thing's GO BETTER with God. That's why he's a God. 6 Days to make the whole Universe. It's all very flexible at the higher levels.  Nev

[red750]

10 minutes ago, old man emu said:

That's a rather quick gestation period.

Or painfully slow. It may have been te following year.

[onetrack]

There are such things as moveable feasts, you know? Those dates have been moved more than few times over the centuries - and even the calendar styles and lengths have been altered more than a few times! 

[Old Koreelah]

3 hours ago, rgmwa said:

I think the dates of both events have been unreliably reported.

 

Not just the dates…

[old man emu]

4 hours ago, red750 said:

Or painfully slow. It may have been te following year.

Ya reckon she could have had elephantiasis? Or the Angel Gabriel might have got a wrong GPS track and instead of a Tibetan lama, he delivered the makings of a Hebrew Messiah.

[Marty_d]

it's important to be able to admit your mistakes.  Like mistranslating "virgin" for "young woman" in the early days of your church.  Of course, that leads to the dismantling of most of your theology, so might be a step too far for yon catholics.

[old man emu]

Well, I just found out that what I interpreted as the Immaculate Conception was completely wrong.

 

I always thought it related to the act of conception of Jesus, but it doesn't. It relates to Mary. The Immaculate Conception is the belief that the Mary was free of original sin from the moment of her conception. The idea was raised by medieval theologians, but it proved so controversial that it did not become part of official Catholic teaching until 1854, when Pius IX gave it the status of dogma in the papal bull Ineffabilis Deus. The dogmatic statement is expressed near the end of the document:

 

We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful. Although not creating a major chasm between Catholicism and the other Christ-based sects, Protestantism mostly rejected the practice of speaking directly to Mary and other saints, Anglicanism has allowed for Mary and the saints to be addressed. Within the Anglican Communion and Continuing Anglican movement, Mary is accorded honour as the theotokos, a Koiné Greek term that means "God-bearer" or "one who gives birth to God".

[facthunter]

Sort of "Make it up as you go "thing?  SAINTS keep getting made. .  Perhaps I should have been a Priest?   Nev

[willedoo]

3 hours ago, facthunter said:

Perhaps I should have been a Priest?   Nev

Why not? They had a flying nun; you could have been the flying priest.

[facthunter]

There was one at RNAC named Walsh who exerted a bit of influence.   Nev

[Marty_d]

9 hours ago, willedoo said:

Why not? They had a flying nun; you could have been the flying priest.

It may be habit-forming.

[facthunter]

Church people are not supposed to have Dirty Habits. AT least to not be found out. (The 11th commandment).  Nev

[Yenn]

The one habit they do have is galloping gullibility. I ask you who could believe all this codswallop?

[nomadpete]

It's cop out. Once you relinquish all responsibility for events around you, you don't HAVE to make so many important decisions in life. And anything you do that turns out bad.... Just aint your fault! The lord works in mysterious ways... Ours is not to reason why.... It's all part of gods plan.....

 

Religion is the easiest way to avoid responsibility for one's actions.

[facthunter]

Do a deathbed repentance and have  the mass that gets you out of purgatory.  I won't be trying that one, They must think their God is as thick as they are. Nev.

[onetrack]

Who thought up Purgatory, anyway? Never seen any mention of Purgatory in either the Old or New Testament. As you say, so many of these religions like to make up a lot of stuff.

[old man emu]

4 hours ago, onetrack said:

Who thought up Purgatory, anyway?

purgatorie, "place or condition of temporal punishment for spiritual cleansing after death of souls dying penitent and destined ultimately for Heaven," directly from Medieval Latin purgatorium ( early 12c.)

The souls in purgatory are supposed  to receive relief through the prayers of the faithful and through the sacrifice of the mass. 

 

The Roman Catholic tradition of purgatory as a transitional condition has a history that dates back, even before Jesus Christ, to the worldwide practice of caring for the dead and praying for them and to the belief, found also in Judaism, which is considered the precursor of Christianity, that prayer for the dead contributed to their afterlife purification. The same practice appears in other traditions, such as the medieval Chinese Buddhist practice of making offerings on behalf of the dead, who are said to suffer numerous trials.

 

Purgatory was addressed by both of the "foundation features" of Anglicanism in the 16th century: the Thirty-Nine Articles of Religion and the Book of Common Prayer. Article XXII of the Thirty-Nine Articles states that "The Romish Doctrine concerning Purgatory . . . is a fond thing, vainly invented, and grounded upon no warranty of Scripture, but rather repugnant to the Word of God." Prayers for the departed were deleted from the 1552 Book of Common Prayer because they suggested a doctrine of purgatory. The 19th century Anglo-Catholic revival led to restoring prayers for the dead.

[facthunter]

"Requiem Mass" for the repose of the Soul. Nev

[old man emu]

Eternal Rest or Requiem aeternam is a Western Christian prayer asking God:

(1) to hasten the progression of the souls of the faithful departed in Purgatory to their place in Heaven (in Roman Catholicism)
(2) to rest in the love of God the souls of the faithful departed in Paradise until the resurrection of the dead and Last Judgement (in Catholicism, Anglicanism, Methodism, Lutheranism)

 

The prayer is cited from 2 Esdras 2:34-35 :

Therefore I say to you, O nations that hear and understand, “Wait for your shepherd; he will give you everlasting rest, because he who will come at the end of the age is close at hand. Be ready for the rewards of the kingdom, because perpetual light will shine on you forevermore. 

[facthunter]

Sounds pretty good  compared with having to handle heaps of virgins.  and wouldn't THEY have to be the uglier ones or maybe fast runners.  Thank Dog I don't have to worry about that stuff.  Nev

[old man emu]

4 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Thank Dog I don't have to worry about that stuff. 

I have to ask. Do you believe that one's consciousness, that inexplicable or indescribable thing that lets you know that you are you; that makes you a sentient being, and which many call "one's Spirit", cease to exist when the body dies?

 

I don't think the answer relies totally on there being any immortal deities, although for some it does. Could that thing continue to exist without bringing in the concept of deities?

[facthunter]

What FORM of you carries on OME?. Is it the demented shadow of one's former self that some become and where are ALL these Souls going to fit and what is there for them to do? Where IS Heaven? Up there is any  direction as we inhabit a sphere. I don't rule out other forces or dimensions as I've had too many premonitions that can't be explained by chance alone. I keep an open mind on that and it's helped e so why knock it?  How do I know?? The BIBLE tells me so. I don't wear.. It's Written. Altered and Published by HUMANS who can't be trusted and consistently proven so throughout all recorded  History.   Nev

[octave]

1 hour ago, old man emu said:

I have to ask. Do you believe that one's consciousness, that inexplicable or indescribable thing that lets you know that you are you

 

The problem is that after perhaps after  stroke or brain injury some people do not "know who they are" or there personality changes.   To me this indicates that our sense of self or our personality resides within the squishy stuff in our heads.  The notion of any kind of afterlife raises more questions than it answers.    The question I would ask of those who believe in some sort of conscious existence after death is what state of consciousness continues on?  Is it my fathers 92 year old consciousness or his 20 year old consciousness?  If there is a heavenly reunion of friends and relatives will my grandmother remember me.  Before she died she was convinced that my young son was me and she did not know who I was. 

 

 I don't really know what a soul is.