Isle of Man TT races,. . .3 motorcyclists dead . . .

[Phil Perry]

A sad start to the TT fortnight,. . .with one competitor killed on the first day of practice,. . .Franck Petticola, a rising star from France, was killed on his first practice on the circuit, lost control at Sulby and collided with a stone wall. . . . . .Sunday 31st,. a 60 yr old man from Warrington UK was killed on the mountain section of the course when he lost control at high speed and hit an embankment. . . . . . . a 52 Yr old German visitor was killed when his motorcycle collided with a car, . . .a local man was also seriously injured in tis accident.

 

A rider was also killed on April 12th, at the Jurby motordrome, but that was not part of the TT, and is held at Jurby airfield. . . .

 

Every time I go to "the island" there are usually a handful of fatalities,. . .the course is renown as possibly the most dangerous in the world. It's usually visitors, ie, kids on crutch missiles who get frizbeed,. . .but this time it's a competitor and a couple of older blokes.

 

Very sad start to the two week festival, which has been going on for over a century.

 

My Brother Graham has gone ( never misses it. . .) I hope he'll survive again to bring me back another tee shirt so that I can bullcrap my friends into thinking that I was there too. . . . . .

 

 

[planedriver]

That's sad news Phil.

 

Reminds me of a race at Crystal Palace that I attended as a young bloke when 6 were killed in a pile-up at the end of the first straight.

 

The tragedy at the 1955 Le Mans was the worst in history, when a Mercedes left the track at 125MPH going into the crowd and blowing up. Result 83 killed and 120 injured. The car burned like fury as the bodywork was made of magnesium alloy.

 

It's on youtube if anyone's interested.

 

 

[Soleair]

I've never been, & prolly never will now I've moved back to Oz.

 

But as a life-long biker, I am full of awe at the level of skill the riders show at the TT. And the speeds they hit are just mindblowing - up there with racetrack numbers, but these guys do it on public roads. Watching on TV is just scary.

 

It's so sad that fatalities are all but inevitable - the loss of such brave, usually young, men is heartbreaking. But they are a breed apart, and if asked to specify their preferred mode of demise would probably say a high speed bike crash was way better than a lingering death from a major disease.

 

And thank God there is still at least one place left where adventurers are allowed to take responsibility for how they choose to enjoy themselves. Almost everywhere else the nanny state purports to know better, and denies its citizens the fundamental right to seek excitement whilst endangering nobody else, albeit at high personal risk. Admittedly there is always some risk to someone somewhere, but how far do you go?

 

If we as a body of recreational pilots allow it, the nanny pollies will legislate us out of the skies on spurious safety grounds. Which will have the reverse effect, because people like me will just fly unregistered, unlicensed if necessary, and outside of reasonable airworthiness controls.

 

We ignore the writing on the wall at our peril.

 

Bruce

 

 

[Phil Perry]

That's sad news Phil.Reminds me of a race at Crystal Palace that I attended as a young bloke when 6 were killed in a pile-up at the end of the first straight.

 

The tragedy at the 1955 Le Mans was the worst in history, when a Mercedes left the track at 125MPH going into the crowd and blowing up. Result 83 killed and 120 injured. The car burned like fury as the bodywork was made of magnesium alloy.

 

It's on youtube if anyone's interested.

That's interesting Planey,. . . .I'll have a gawk at that. . . . . I really LOVE the Isle of Man,. . .I flew there in various aircraft every year since 1996,. . .we usually organised a van ( quite often mine ! ) to take around four bikes, and all the tents, barbecue gear and of course the BEER tinnies ( cheaper than the IOM ) and the driver made sure all the tents were erected before we flew in. . .Ahhhh Luxury ! ! ! !If you Google Earth the Isle of Man, look for an old airfield at the North end,. . .this was a WW2 sire, with Hurricanes based there. This is called "Andreas" airfield, and is just adjacent to the village bearing the same name. It is around 7 miles North of Ramsay, and when we all flew in,. . .we would pile into the van, and some poor sod would drive us to the town, where we wold watch the practice, until they opened the road at 5.30pm, and then we would go to the pub, followed by the fish and chip shop.. . . .buy a crapload of tinnies, and return to the aiirfield campsite, and rock on until,. . .er,. . .forever, or until it got light again.

 

The last time, we found a 44 gallon drum,. . .cut the top off it and sent two 14 year old lads off in my van to find some wood to make a fire.. . .they came back with a van full of timber and we had a fire in that drum, which never went out for a week. We even nicked a screw fastener off the top of the farmer's electric fence to use as a convenient bottle opener. . . .good job he had a sense of humour.. . .!

 

That weekend, we had 44 aircraft fly in,. . . and the farmer's Wife asked me if I could go and have a word with them and collect some landing fees. . .!. . . .SO. . .emboldened by several tinnies I did. I managed to collect a garbage bag full of cash, and she has been my best friend ever since. ( that was IOM TT 2003 )

 

There were several hundred German Bikers camped in the field next door,. . .now I had no idea that this wasn't actually HER land,. . .but anyway, . . .I had a great drink with them, and they placed many hundred euros into the bag as well. . . .when I gave her the bag,. . .I nearly got raped. . . . . .But,. .. as bad luck would have it,. . .I was too drunk, and too tired. . . .( sorry )

 

( Footnote : If it wasn't for the Germans,. . .there wouldn't be a TT,. . .they have supported it for many decades when the UK was never really interested,. . it is only recently that it can be seen on UK TV. . . . .so I take my hat off to them for that. )

 

 

[facthunter]

The Isle of Man was appropriate when it first started perhaps when you needed a weather forecast for the next lap of a circuit which is from, memory about 35miles and before the lap time exceeded 60 mph average. Going there is a pilgrimage. The Mecca for Europe if you are "IN" with the bike scene. The place to be seen too.

 

The circuit is unbelievably dangerous by any measure. To win you have to ride way beyond your safe limit and it is only a matter of time before each eminent rider dies. Dunlop was an exception being killed in a road accident in a car I think. in europe. There are brick walls and few runoffs. Barry Sheene was the first to push for it's removal from the F1. I agree with what he did. Unnecessary deaths happen every year when "ordinary" riders get out and try to impress themselves or others, and good riders do too less often.. I can understand the thrill of going there, but I don't know how you could in all conscience see the track as anything but a death trap as a race circuit. Watching it on a cam on a race bike ridden by a good rider is terrifying. Nev

 

 

[Phil Perry]

That's sad news Phil.Reminds me of a race at Crystal Palace that I attended as a young bloke when 6 were killed in a pile-up at the end of the first straight.

 

The tragedy at the 1955 Le Mans was the worst in history, when a Mercedes left the track at 125MPH going into the crowd and blowing up. Result 83 killed and 120 injured. The car burned like fury as the bodywork was made of magnesium alloy.

 

It's on youtube if anyone's interested.

That's interesting Planey,. . . .I'll have a gawk at that. . . . . I really LOVE the Isle of Man,. . .I flew there in various aircraft every year since 1996,. . .we usually organised a van ( quite often mine ! ) to take around four bikes, and all the tents, barbecue gear and of course the BEER tinnies ( cheaper than the IOM ) and the driver made sure all the tents were erected before we flew in. . .Ahhhh Luxury ! ! ! !If you Google Earth the Isle of Man, look for an old airfield at the North end,. . .this was a WW2 sire, with Hurricanes based there. This is called "Andreas" airfield, and is just adjacent to the village bearing the same name. It is around 7 miles North of Ramsay, and when we all flew in,. . .we would pile into the van, and some poor sod would drive us to the town, where we wold watch the practice, until they opened the road at 5.30pm, and then we would go to the pub, followed by the fish and chio shop.. . . .buy a crapload of tinnies, and return to the aiirfield campsite, and rock on until,. . .er,. . .forever, or until it got light again.

 

The ;last time, we found a 44 gallon drum,. . .cut the top off it and sent two 14 year old lads off in my van to find some wood to make a fire.. . .they came back with a van full of timber and we had a fire in that drum, which never went out for a week. We even nicked a screw fastener off the top of the farmer's electic fencE to use as a convenient bottle opener. . . .good job he had a sense of humour.. . .!

 

That weekend, we had 44 aircraft fly in,. . . and the farmer's Wife asked me if I could go and have a word with them and collect some landing fees. . .!. . . .SO. . .emboldened by several tinnies I did. I managed to collect a garbage bag full of cash, and \she has been my best friend ever since.

 

There were several hundred German Bikers camped in the field next door,. . .now I had no idea that this wasn't actually HER land,. . .but anyway, . . .I had a great drink with them, and they placed many hundred euros into the bag as well. . . .when I gave her the bag,. . .I nearly got raped. . . . . .But,. .. as luck would have it,. . .I was too drunk, and too tired. . . .( sorry )

 

The Isle of Man was appropriate when it first started perhaps when you needed a weather forecast for the next lap of a circuit which is from, memory about 35miles and before the lap time exceeded 60 mph average. Going there is a pilgrimage. The Mecca for Europe if you are "IN" with the bike scene. The place to be seen too.The circuit is unbelievably dangerous by any measure. To win you have to ride way beyond your safe limit and it is only a matter of time before each eminent rider dies. Dunlop was an exception being killed in a road accident in a car I think. in europe. There are brick walls and few runoffs. Barry Sheene was the first to push for it's removal from the F1. I agree with what he did. Unnecessary deaths happen every year when "ordinary" riders get out and try to impress themselves or others, and good riders do too less often.. I can understand the thrill of going there, but I don't know how you could in all conscience see the track as anything but a death trap as a race circuit. Watching it on a cam on a race bike ridden by a good rider is terrifying. Nev

[Phil Perry]

The Isle of Man was appropriate when it first started perhaps when you needed a weather forecast for the next lap of a circuit which is from, memory about 35miles and before the lap time exceeded 60 mph average. Going there is a pilgrimage. The Mecca for Europe if you are "IN" with the bike scene. The place to be seen too.The circuit is unbelievably dangerous by any measure. To win you have to ride way beyond your safe limit and it is only a matter of time before each eminent rider dies. Dunlop was an exception being killed in a road accident in a car I think. in europe. There are brick walls and few runoffs. Barry Sheene was the first to push for it's removal from the F1. I agree with what he did. Unnecessary deaths happen every year when "ordinary" riders get out and try to impress themselves or others, and good riders do too less often.. I can understand the thrill of going there, but I don't know how you could in all conscience see the track as anything but a death trap as a race circuit. Watching it on a cam on a race bike ridden by a good rider is terrifying. Nev

37.5 miles Nev,. . . not splitting hairs,. but that's waht they reckon. I'm no slouch to racing bikes, and I've ridden it on " Mad Sunday" ( this is when the course is open to everyone,. . . on the last day of practice week, . . .) on 1) a Yamaha R1,. . .when they forst came out,. . .and my friend Ray Kibble, who owns a large transport company,. . .lent me his bike, which had been modified a bit and bored out to 1050cc, and zipped up quite nicely ( Geez. . .what a beast it was too. . .) I ran the course in 45.89 minutes. . . . but I'm not suicidal.

 

I did a better time on my mate Geoff's Triumph Rocket 3,. . now this bike, If you are not au fait with it, is a three cylinder engined machine at 2.3 litres,. . .and is a bit of a heavy beast. It could out-accellerate ANYTHING on the island up to around 65 mph. . .but . . .regrettably,. . it was like riding dunny door on castors,. . .and didn't like to change direction unless you wrung it's neck. . . .HOWEVER,. . .I DID manage to do a circuit in 41 minutes seven seconds,. . .mainly due to the fact that nothing could catch it on the straights. . . . regrettably ( again ) there are not enough straights on the island circuit after you've gone through Cronky Voddy . . . .this is really pathetic, when you realise that last year the circuit average was 206.7 Mph. . . . . it's just getting silly now.

 

No one can ride the island, unless they can produce evidence of road racing in Ireland for several years, and had a few firsts and seconds. . . .they have a LOT of road circuits in Eire. . . . . so ONLY the best of the best end up racing at the Island. . . . and a few of them end up frizbeed. . . . . regrettably,.. . . but, on the whole,. . .for the unwashed public,. . .it IS a GREAT spectacle,. . .rather like the Roman gladiatorial events I suppose. . . . . and they will keep on doing it, as the Isle of Man gets an enormous boost to their economy from both the TT and also the Manx Grand Prix, held in August every year,. . .plenty of bikes,. . .all ridden by old people. . . .

 

 

[Marty_d]

She was only the farmer's wife....

 

 

[facthunter]

I wouldn't like to be the one to stop it either,( because of the factors you mention) but a friend of mine years ago went there and somebody spread his brains out on the wall a few feet from him literally, He got splattered. He would never go back... (Unsurprisingly)

 

The IOM was used because it didn't come under British Law restricting speeds in the first place, so I suppose that's a tradition going way back.. The contrast with the newer circuits gets more noticeable every year. Blokes like "steady" Eddie Lawson could come off at high speed and ride the bike to a standstill when he wasn't even on it. because there is room to do it.. A good race ( or any contest) should have mostly skill and less luck in it's make-up.( Like flying) Nev

 

 

[Birdseye]

Gotta die some time; it would be a boring world if we all died in our beds.

 

 

[facthunter]

Hardly an argument though. You could say that about anything. I'm all about individual freedoms, where you aren't involved with others. IF the Council make lot's of money and it will go on because of that, that doesn't read well either does it? Nev

 

 

[bexrbetter]

I can't think of another sporting event of any type in history other than Christians Vs Lions that didn't get cancelled due to so many deaths.

 

And you're not reading it wrong, 9 people were killed in 2005 ....

 

[ATTACH]47654._xfImport[/ATTACH]

 

[winsor68]

The Isle of Man was appropriate when it first started perhaps when you needed a weather forecast for the next lap of a circuit which is from, memory about 35miles and before the lap time exceeded 60 mph average. Going there is a pilgrimage. The Mecca for Europe if you are "IN" with the bike scene. The place to be seen too.The circuit is unbelievably dangerous by any measure. To win you have to ride way beyond your safe limit and it is only a matter of time before each eminent rider dies. Dunlop was an exception being killed in a road accident in a car I think. in europe. There are brick walls and few runoffs. Barry Sheene was the first to push for it's removal from the F1. I agree with what he did. Unnecessary deaths happen every year when "ordinary" riders get out and try to impress themselves or others, and good riders do too less often.. I can understand the thrill of going there, but I don't know how you could in all conscience see the track as anything but a death trap as a race circuit. Watching it on a cam on a race bike ridden by a good rider is terrifying. Nev

I still support peoples right to have a go though...

 

 

[fly_tornado]

UK road racing is fairly dangerous, part of it's appeal.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

I can't think of another sporting event of any type in history other than Christians Vs Lions that didn't get cancelled due to so many deaths.

And you're not reading it wrong, 9 people were killed in 2005 ....

 

[ATTACH=full]36228[/ATTACH]

I think that was the year that six local civilians ( not involved with motorcycles ) were killed, a mum and 2 children waiting for a bus, and a local tradesman in his transit van, who had a German motorcycle through his windscreen,. . .. .then there were the race competitor and three motorcyclist visitors. . . . can't remember what happened to the others. . .but I WAS there that year. . . that TT festival REALLY DID generate some serious talk of pulling the plug. . . but I guess that the fear of losing millions in tourism won the argument. . . .I missed the year that Joey Dunlop won the superbike in 2000, as our gaggle of 3 microlights was turned back by the weather. and we got arrested and locked up for a while at BAE Warton for a precautionary weather landing ! ! ( nuther story )

 

 

[dazza 38]

I think that was the year that six local civilians ( not involved with motorcycles ) were killed, a mum and 2 children waiting for a bus, and a local tradesman in his transit van, who had a German motorcycle through his windscreen,. . .. .then there were the race competitor and three motorcyclist visitors. . . . can't remember what happened to the others. . .but I WAS there that year. . . that TT festival REALLY DID generate some serious talk of pulling the plug. . . but I guess that the fear of losing millions in tourism won the argument. . . .I missed the year that Joey Dunlop won the superbike in 2000, as our gaggle of 3 microlights was turned back by the weather. and we got arrested and locked up for a while at BAE Warton for a precautionary weather landing ! ! ( nuther story )

I spent 4 months at BAE Warton, completing the Tornado crew chief course. Nice place.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...last year the circuit average was 206.7 Mph. . . . . it's just getting silly now.. . .

Is that speed fair dinkum, Phil? In the 70's we were in awe of the IoM and our bikes wore Dunlop K81s (when we could afford them). On the sidewall was "TT100", because it was the first tyre to average 100mph. A high point of my life was seeing Mike the Bike ride the Castrol 6 Hour Race on a Ducati. I may never see, let alone ride the Island, but it's nice to know it's still there.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Phil's on the juice again, damn you Barossa mafia and your $3 clean skins. Laptimes are in the 130mph range which is ridiculously fast for a goat track

 

 

[winsor68]

Isle of Nan

 

 

[facthunter]

It's a road built for the traffic of over 100 years ago with buildings and brick walls built to the road's edge. Have a look at a vid of someone doing it fast on a race bike. Nev

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Phil's on the juice again, damn you Barossa mafia and your $3 clean skins. Laptimes are in the 130mph range which is ridiculously fast for a goat track

You're half right FT,. . . . .It wasn't a Barossa Valley product this time,. . . .! it was Italian Cava. . . .I was in attendance in June 2006 when this Kiwi bloke broke the overall speed record ( on Sulby Mile ) of 206 and a bit mph ( as previously quoted ) . . . .although I was stationed at the Creg ny Baa pub near the end of the mountain section that day and didn't hear about Bruce's achievement until we all went down to Douglas seafront in the evening to get ratarsed following the seniors race and watched it on a humungous screen overlooking the monstrous beer tent on the promenade. . . .you're quite right of course, regarding the lap times, around the 132 area. . . . to get a laptime of 206,. . .the rider whould have had to exceed 400 + mph along cronky Voddy and Sulby straights. . . . .

 

(Who was it said that KIWIS weren't good at Something ? ?. . .!)

 

copy/paste

 

(In an indication of just how crazy the Isle of Man TT really is, New Zealander Bruce Anstey set a new top speed record when he was clocked at 206mph on the mile-long Sulby Straight during practice for the Superbike-class race. Anstey was aboard a race-modified Suzuki GSX-R1000.)

 

The current ongoing festival may produce some more records but since we are already virtually AT the maximum velocities reasonably achievable by a two wheeled vehicle, it is difficult to see where anyone could sensibly go any quicker given the existing constraints of the road being used. . . I have personally ridden some very fast machines around that course ( on mad sundays ) at least 25 times over the years that I have been going there . . . as well as at times of the year between the TT and the Manx Grand Prix when the racing wasn't on. . .and even now, I couldn't honestly remember ALLl the bumps and fiddlybits it has to offer. . . . any rider MUST HAVE encyclopaedic knowledge of that course burnt into his brain BEFORE even attempting competition. . . . . and STILL. . .they die.

 

I therefore have to agree with every negative view expressed by you worthy forumites. . . . not clever at all. ( I'll bet that George Formby never took that many risks in his film about it. . .)

 

Phil

 

 

[planedriver]

[quote="Phil Perry, post: 497744,

 

I therefore have to agree with every negative view expressed by you worthy forumites. . . . not clever at all. ( I'll bet that George Formby never took that many risks in his film about it. . .)

 

Phil

 

Phil mate. It takes a good man like you to admit when enough is enough.

 

It's even better when a woman accepts it too!

 

 

[farri]

Due to the death rate, does the race need to be speed limited,or, even banned?...As tragic as it is, I wouldn`t like to be the one to make such a decision. These guys know the risk involved and they to do it by choice!

 

So far this year, twenty people have died, as a result of road accidents, in and around the Cairns area of Far north Queensland.

 

Frank.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Due to the death rate, does the race need to be speed limited,or, even banned?...As tragic as it is, I wouldn`t like to be the one to make such a decision. These guys know the risk involved and they to do it by choice!

Once you're over 100 kmh, sudden stops against brick walls makes no difference as to if it was 200 or 300 kmh.

 

Yeah, sure they do it by choice, bet their mum's don't share the same opinion ... and dads, sisters, brothers, children, wives, girlfriends, friends ...

 

I want to die in bed at 103 years old, not "doing something I love" at 28.

 

 

[Guest Captain1]

Mate of mine, Les Kenny, was killed racing at the IOM in '75 and I've been over there a number of times. He was racing the world championship and wanted to race the IOM.

 

 

 

And as a matter of interest, the consequences of coming off at Bathurst at the Easter Road Races weren't much different when we raced up there in the 70's, with Armco everywhere and no runoff areas.

 

 

 

More power to those that have the guts and desire to do what they love doing, and racing motorcycles is one of those things.

 

 

 

Bexy ..... many of the blokes that race at the IOM have their families with them and those that don't do this type of thing will NEVER understand what it is all about.

 

 

 

Phil P. Not sure what year you are talking about but Bruce Anstey rides a CBR1000 Superbike for Pagett's Honda. It's not the speed on the straights that is impressive, it's Bruce's 132 mph average lap speed last year that shows what it is all about. They'll break 17 minutes soon and are nowhere near "maximum velocity" as you say. A road-going registered R1000RR will do 200 mph without any engine work & when just fitted with a chip and a pipe. That is why Michael Dunlop set fastest time in practice on his superstock R1000RR.