Further Effects of "The Voice" debate

[facthunter]

You'll have to scratch around for some evidence first.  Being an EMU has to be a good start.   Nev

[Marty_d]

You're a Wag too OME. 

[facthunter]

Thereby hangs a Tail.   (longer than Blue Hills).  Nev

[old man emu]

Albo will finally ease the misery today by announcing the date for the referendum. 

 

That might be welcome because it will signify the end of the beginning. However, despite what appears to be widespread involvement in the debate by those who are of British ancestry, the Electoral Commision has ruined the machinery of the referendum by requiring voters to write either "Yes" or "No" on the voting form.

 

Clearly that requirement disenfranchises every person who is either illiterate in English, or unable to write. By "illiterate in English", I mean not understanding that when put together the letters y,s,e in the sequence y,e,s means the affirmative, because, for example in Swahili the affirmative is expressed by "ndio". And who can say what the affirmative work is in some of those Aboriginal languages in Far remote areas of Australia.

 

Albo could make a name for himself by having the guts to stand up today and say "My fellow Australians, I'm sorry to say that we are gong to have to postpone the referendum until we can fix the broken machinery that enables us to conduct it. Shouldn't take long, but please bear with us and keep up the debate."

 

 

 

 

[octave]

4 minutes ago, old man emu said:

Electoral Commision has ruined the machinery of the referendum by requiring voters to write either "Yes" or "No" on the voting form.

 

Just for clarification, this has not been recently changed and it has been the case since 1988. 

[facthunter]

AW,Geez. You've just gone and ruined a good story.  Nev

[spacesailor]

WHY 

Postpone!.

Cancel it & save our ' democracy ' .

You would think we have a ' Republic ' .

spacesailor

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, octave said:

 

Just for clarification, this has not been recently changed and it has been the case since 1988. 

It is the recommended management system practice to employ the Plan-Do-Check_Act cycle to ensure that what the plan sets out to do, is being done, and if not, make amendments to improve on the doing.

 

A failure in the machinery of the referendum has been detected. That's the "Check" part of the cycle. All that has to be done is make a minor adjustment. That's the "Act" part of the cycle. If that could be done in 1988, then it can be done in 2023. Afterall, what exists is simply a procedure to get something done. It would not cause the whole Act, Regulation or whatever to be tossed into the rubbish bin. 

 

But I am, of course, neglecting the mastodon at the back of the cave - we are dealing with political egos.

 

23 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

WHY Postpone! Cancel it & save our ' democracy ' .

The debate has done a lot to exemplify the benefits of the democratic system, for all its faults. The debate of the concept behind the referendum has developed more momentum that a fully loaded iron ore train. To cancel the referendum outright would do more harm to democracy in Australia than enshrining in the Constitution a Voice to Parliament for Alphabet People.

[octave]

According to the AEC in the 1988 referendum, just .86  percent were informal votes due to ticks and crosses.  In terms of language barriers, I would assume that election materials are produced in a variety of languages.   Either way, I don't think it is a result-changing issue. I do worry though that Dutton et al could go down the Trumpian road if the referendum is passed and claim that it was rigged.  

 

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/peter-dutton-cross-about-aec-tick-ruling-on-voice-referendum-20230824-p5dz7q.html

Edited August 30, 2023 by octave

[Marty_d]

If you can read the question you can spell "yes" or "no".

The No camp should be happy, an answer for them contains 33% fewer letters

[spacesailor]

 This referendum IS ' fixed '.

the government has Not given the   ' NO crowd ' , ONE  cent towards the opposing argument. 

( hundreds of millions of dollars ! For a yes vote  ).

A minority with a greater " voice " , than the majority is wrong in concept. 

You would think we have a ' Republic ' .

spacesailor

Edited August 30, 2023 by spacesailor

[red750]

Now that the date has been announced/confirmed (Oct 14), stand by to be bombarded with texts seeking your vote or asking for donations to the campaign. My daughter has already received one.

[Marty_d]

43 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

 This referendum IS ' fixed '.

the government has Not given the   ' NO crowd ' , ONE  cent towards the opposing argument. 

( hundreds of millions of dollars ! For a yes vote  ).

A minority with a greater " voice " , than the majority is wrong in concept. 

You would think we have a ' Republic ' .

spacesailor

Sources please Spacey

[Marty_d]

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/aug/30/australians-have-six-weeks-to-make-a-decision-on-the-voice-it-needs-to-be-based-on-facts-not-fear

[Old Koreelah]

After all this time, nobody has raised a convincing arguement against this incredibly overdue update to our Constitution.
Where are people getting their information?

Much of our media is owned by foreigners with a track record of misleading the public. 

[octave]

 

 

I don't much care which way people are going to vote but my plea is not to accept false information or fear-mongering (on either side).  At the heart of Trumpism is the notion that verifiable facts are not important and that asserting something loudly is enough.  

 

No public money for 'Yes' or 'No' campaigns in Indigenous Voice to Parliament referendum

[nomadpete]

It all depends upon from where one chooses to obtain 'verifyable facts' from which to confirm their preconceived notions. Verified by whom?

 

I suspect that very few of the  public (voters) have actually spent time in the communities most in need of assistance. Therefore the majority of votes have been pulled by vested interests, rather than direct information from the people most affected.

 

This has become a media party and the needy people will be, once again, the losers, after the dust settles.

 

 

[spacesailor]

The majority of Australians have sworn alegance,  when taking the , Naturalisation oath . 

Can the same be said of those , that will steer our government after OUR LOSS.

$ 364.6 million has been spent on the voice . ( YES )

According to " Google " searches ! .

NIDDA Gets $ 2.595 million from the government.

SO WHO funds the " NO CAMPAIGN " 

' It is fixed '

Spacesailor

 

 

 

[octave]

18 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

$ 364.6 million has been spent on the voice . ( YES )

 Can you please post a link?    I believe that the government is not funding either side. Yes, there has been funding to run the referendum.    Both the yes and no sides have received private funds from various organizations.

 

https://www.rmit.edu.au/news/factlab-meta/government-spending-on-education-campaign-not-yes-case-for-voice#:~:text=The verdict,-False.&text=The federal government did not,taking sides in the debate.

 

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by octave

[octave]

The referendum booklet arrived in my letter box today.  It presents both the yes and no case.  

[spacesailor]

I'll tick the No vote!  .

' Equality for All Australians . one million Aboriginal & Torres Strait  islanders .

25.6 million other people .

spacesailor

[Marty_d]

Excellent,  the more No voters ticking it instead of writing  No, the better.

[Jerry_Atrick]

9 hours ago, octave said:

The referendum booklet arrived in my letter box today.  It presents both the yes and no case.  

I haven't got one.. Mayne I will reregister to vote...

 

Note, that the AEC did not mandate that either side had to be truthful in their framing of their arguments in the booklet, and so far, even the Merde DOC (thanks, Facthunter - love it) press have not found anything in the Yes arguments to be untruthful - instead many MSMs and social media types have found quite a few faults with the No vote campaign...

 

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Jerry_Atrick

[nomadpete]

15 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

so far, even the Merde DOC  press have not found anything in the Yes arguments to be untruthful

That is only because that mob don't know how to present logical truth. They do seem expert in stirring up meaningless hysteria though.

So I don't think they are much value for deciding any issues that arise in the world.

 

I do go by my own experience on the real world, though, and it is rare for high level government advisors to actually do much good for people at the lowest levels of society.

 

And this 'voice' is just another advisor placed in the government.

Edited August 30, 2023 by nomadpete

[Marty_d]

We don't know what the final structure will look like.  Logically you'd have a network of elders from each community talking to maybe a state/territory representative who would be the voice to government.

 

But if it is just another advisor to government - think of it this way, how much does the government waste every year in "advisors" from the big 4, which is corporate welfare propping up shareholders (many of who are not Australian)?