Further Effects of "The Voice" debate

[spacesailor]

What we don't know about the " voice referendum  " 

ACT And Northern Territories ,

Are Not allowed a vote . !!!

 Check it out , 50% of people AND ' States ' .

Why haven't you said anything about the most Aborigine  and the most vulnerable! 

Being excluded .

 spacesailor

[octave]

24 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

What we don't know about the " voice referendum  " 

ACT And Northern Territories ,

Are Not allowed a vote . !!!

 Check it out , 50% of people AND ' States ' .

Why haven't you said anything about the most Aborigine  and the most vulnerable! 

Being excluded .

 spacesailor

That is not quite correct.  

 

https://www.aec.gov.au/referendums/learn/the-count.html#:~:text=Votes cast outside of the,any of the state counts.

 

"To pass, a referendum needs the support of most voters nationally, as well as a majority in at least four out of the six states — the ACT and Northern Territory aren't included but their votes do still count."
 

 

"Votes cast outside of the six states, such as from the Australian Capital Territory or the Northern Territory, are counted towards the National Majority but not towards any of the state counts."
 

Edited September 11, 2023 by octave

[Jerry_Atrick]

Spacey - that is the same for every referendum - They get a vote. What it means is that the territories are not counted in the 4 out of 6 states that require a majority in addition to the vote requiring greater than 50% of the vote for the referendum to succeed.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Jerry_Atrick

[old man emu]

The Northern Territory and the Australian Capital Territory both have parliaments which seem to act in exactly the same way as the parliaments of the States. Chapter 6, Paragraph 121 of the Constitution says: The Parliament may admit to the Commonwealth or establish new States, and may upon such admission or establishment make or impose such terms and conditions, including the extent of representation in either House of the Parliament, as it thinks fit.

 

I wonder why, now, these Territories are not admitted as States.

[nomadpete]

10 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

I would like evidence of a work ethic among abos, but I doubt if there are many examples of this... 

Bruce, I have worked with some (city educated), and also met some along my travels. And one said to me something like ... 'I may be aboriginal, but I am NOT one those lazy b...' we got along fine except he got quite nervous when we had to work in what he knew as hostile territory of  certain other mobs.

 

The better educated people generally do have a work ethic.

 

There are, however also considerable populations who are to a fair degree adapted to multigenerational lifestyle of contempt for white law, and freedom to do whatever they feel. These people prefer whites to stay away from their community so long as there is enough money coming in to maintain the status quo.

 

Before anyone cries 'racist!', I have lived in a couple of outer suburbs where the same statement applies to dependant white communities. In my opinion after a lifestyle is maintained for generations, it becomes a culture. That is defined by human nature, not race. The voice is unlikely to bring a cultural shift that will 'close the gaps'.

 

Not stirring the pot, just explaining what I saw.

Edited September 11, 2023 by nomadpete

[Bruce Tuncks]

Alice Springs had a fuel depot on Railway Tce once, run by Snowy Mitchell with a full-blood as his helper. Apart from stealing all the money, this abo was a good worker according to Snowy, who didn't really blame the abo for his thefts. ( Snowy later became famous in the town when his wife nearly cut off his penis, but that is a different story)

So, it is possible for an abo to have a work ethic, but it was very unusual.

[willedoo]

I've known quite a few with good work ethics. One in particular was a foreman in a company I worked for. He's passed now, but he and his family were highly respected across a large part of our state. You wouldn't get a better, more hard working, responsible bloke.

 

Peer pressure holds a lot of them back. One young bloke I worked with was a cultural heritage officer. We worked a roster of a few weeks on and a couple off. When he was due for the break, he used to go somewhere far away from relatives so he could hang onto some of his hard earned salary. With their all for one, one for all culture, it was very difficult to refuse relatives and friends requests for money if he went back home for his break. It's frustrating for those that do work hard as they end up supporting heaps of relatives and can't see themselves advancing financially for all their hard work. When you work hard and still end up with nothing, it's no wonder a lot give up on work.

 

I also worked with a Maori bloke and his daughter. They said the Maoris were similar and was the main reason they came to Australia, just so they could get ahead. They did well out here, accumulating a fair bit of real estate and rental properties. They said they would never be able to achieve that back home with the large extended network of relatives.

[spacesailor]

If you get a little too close to " palm Island " Queensland, 

Their ' war canoe's' come out very quickly. 

We turned away , without waiting to see if those " Native Australians ' were friendly. 

spacesailor

[pmccarthy]

My wife and I spent a night on the beach at Palm Island once, when our boat was damaged. I walked into the village to tell the police that we were there.

[nomadpete]

Did some fishing around Palm Island, years back, with Townsville game fishers. In the 1990's. None of us were game to go near Palm Island. It had a bad reputation.

[nomadpete]

3 hours ago, spacesailor said:

If you get a little too close to " palm Island " Queensland, 

Their ' war canoe's' come out very quickly. 

We turned away , without waiting to see if those " Native Australians ' were friendly. 

spacesailor

Nowadays a 'war canoe' looks more like a 14' tinny with a 40 horse Johnno on the back. Same in Torres Strait. It's their family Kingswood. And like a Kingswood it wouldn't have oars, anchor, lifejackets, flares, water, or any safety gear that wimpy whities take along.

[spacesailor]

That was the ' war canoe ' , not one , I think I counted three .

And turned away with my tail between my legs . LoL 

At the time we didn't know it was off limits. 

spacesailor

[spacesailor]

What a Big racist rant , that I saw on the news .

Someone yelling that 90% of Australians ( white ) ,  were racist against the 10 % Aboriginal. 

Because that racist ' the voice ' is losing support. 

Also saying , Dutton should be prosecuted .

spacesailor

[facthunter]

Change your NEWS source. WHO is someone? THAT post borders on Unintelligible.  Nev

[Old Koreelah]

Given that the No case is telling verifiable fibs and trying to scare people about non-existant threats, why would anyone vote against this overdue reform? Sensible, safe, well-run countries like Finland, Norway and New Zealand have given their Indig people a voice (or far more) and the sky didn’t fall.

 

https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/voices-around-the-world-indigenous-representation-in-other-countries-20230830-p5e0r4.html

[facthunter]

They ARE using deception and deliberate confusion tactics for sure aided and abetted by the Murdock press and People like Andrew Bolt and Peta Credlin. Mundine is running for a Lib Senate spot replacing Marise Payne.  Nev

[old man emu]

A big YES vote is a double-whammy win for White Australians of British heritage.

 

1. If we have a resounding YES vote, the rest of the non-White world can't call us racists.

 

2. If the Government makes a dog's dinner of the powers arising from a YES vote, the rest of us won't have to take the blame for all the failures.

[spacesailor]

We will have to " suck it up " ,

And ' live ' ( if that word fits ) with the consequences..

There will never be a referendum , to remove a ' referendum ' result .

Would a Republic give us a referendum to go back to this system we now have  .

spacesailor

[spacesailor]

Remember! .

England had to go to war , to end such a Bad ' Republic type ' system. 

The result is what we enjoy at the moment .

spacesailor

 

[Marty_d]

Spacey,  do you truly not get that this change only says there will be a Voice to parliament. 

The government of the day decides what form it takes.

So if they wanted to, they could say that the voice is one person in a tiny Canberra office with no travel budget.

 

I would be more concerned with a thousand other things that impact our democracy far more than this.  Gina Rhinehart alone has much more negative impact than this voice will ever have.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Spacey - the republic you refer to in England was Cromwell, was it not? An entirely different set of cicumstances to today... That republic wasn't created out of a referendum, but a civil war (well, a bunch of landed gentry fighting each other) (https://www.royal.uk/interregnum-1649-1660). That also ended the same way - with violence.. but it was a very different time and would struggle to find parrallels (well, except for MAGA and Trump, but they are hardly about indigenous rights, are they).

 

The refendum wording only compels a voice be established and that it can advise government on ATSI matters. And that the government can make laws about the composition and how the Voice is run (my bad, I thought the thrid para meant laws on aboriginal matters in consultation with the voice - I misread it).  And the wording requires that the consitution  of the Voice and its operation must comply with the rest of the constitution.

 

That is it.. It simply says "Government - you have to ensure there is an ATSI representative body.. You can't not have one. In addition, , if it is not working (or could work better) you can change it to try and make it work.. or if you really, really, want to, you can just have the Voice with only one representative such as the PM's son running it from the Chairman's Lounge, and Government, you don't even have to listen to what he says (or read what he emails), except that the food and wine is fine, but the riff-raff they let in their at times (just as Lydia Thorpe and other ATSIs) means he has to lift his head up from the gameboy (or whatever is the portable gaming device of choice).

 

Seriously, if that is your biggest beef with it, then I would suggest your not really thinking about it those terms.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Jerry_Atrick

[old man emu]

A very interesting choice Jacinta Price made in her speech to the Press Club. Instead of the word "invasion" to refer to European settlement in Australia, she chose the word "colonisation". That word is less aggressive than "invasion".  Is that a change of strategy aimed at allaying the fears of Whites that an alleged goal of Aborigines is to reclaim all the continent?

 

Colonise: 1620s, "to settle with colonists, plant or establish a colony in,".  By the 1790s it had the sense of "to make another place into a national dependency" without regard for settlement there. 

The root of the word is the Latin colonia "settled land, farm, landed estate," from colonus "husbandman, tenant farmer, settler in new land," from colere "to cultivate, to till; to inhabit; to frequent.

 

"Invasion" is from the mid-15c. English, invasioun, "an assault, attack, act of entering a country or territory as an enemy," from Latin invadere "to go, come, or get into; enter violently, penetrate into as an enemy, assail, assault, make an attack on.

 

The difference in the sense of the words is that "colonise" implies an initial peaceful entry of one group into the territory of another, while "invade" implies violent military action to gain control of territory.

 

Since the 1950s we have seen established suburbs in our cities which were originally occupied by those of British heritage "colonised" by Greeks, Italians, Serbs, Croats, and a host of Asians, Arabic and Africans.

 

 

 

[rgmwa]

Colonisation is probably a more accurate description of what actually happened. Governor Phillip made a pretty good effort to get along with the aboriginals in the first few years, even getting speared for his trouble once the locals realised their visitors weren't intending to leave. The whites at the time also clearly recognised that the aboriginals were people and not fauna.

Edited September 15, 2023 by rgmwa

[spacesailor]

Jerry 

If the ' referendum ' IS passed . It will-Not & cannot be changed. 

There will not be another ' referendum ' to revert ' our ' constitution to something else. .

The country Will be divided by one party losing. 

And one Winner .

That the loser does not Want,  ' whatever the outcome .

Blacktown was given to the Aboriginals. 

But

They are not going to put a ' land claim in , for their traditional lands ! .

 

In England Your King is sitting in a Scottish castle .

And , since James the first , has been King of England. 

would you mind them taking over 'Their ' government in London. 

spacesailor

 

[facthunter]

Brexit is now becoming Bregret.   A Giant MISTAKE that will COST UK.   Nev