Further Effects of "The Voice" debate

[Bruce Tuncks]

Yes Octave, you want to reverse the onus and have us "no" types say exactly what our problem is.

I have to admit to being hostile to the "professionally offended" types who I reckon have too much power these days and I don't want to give them any more. A resounding "no" vote would do good I reckon, and stuff like the WA regulations would slow down and not accelerate. AND  I don't like renaming Brisbane, at least without a LOT more discussion.  

I reckon the onus of convincing should be on those wanting the change, not those wanting to stay the same. But yes I am embarrassed at some of the bad company I am keeping on this matter.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I am still waiting for a good explanation of just how whites doing rock climbing in the grampians  could possibly be of any business to anybody else.

[octave]

1 minute ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

ND  I don't like renaming Brisbane, at least without a LOT more discussion.

 

the thing is that you are foolish enough to fall fall the medias outrage campaign

 

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/annastacia-palaszczuk-says-reports-brisbane-may-be-renamed-to-indigenous-equivalent-absolute-nonsense/news-story/c29afdc2d5029d85ab9d63cd547702c1

 

   Change of names is not this wholesale assault you folks believe it to be 

[willedoo]

15 minutes ago, octave said:

 

the thing is that you are foolish enough to fall fall the medias outrage campaign

 

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/annastacia-palaszczuk-says-reports-brisbane-may-be-renamed-to-indigenous-equivalent-absolute-nonsense/news-story/c29afdc2d5029d85ab9d63cd547702c1

 

   Change of names is not this wholesale assault you folks believe it to be 

The odd thing is, I'm a Queenslander and live a one hour drive north of Brisbane, I listen to the ABC local radio every day, try to stay informed through a variety of sources and the first I've heard of a Brisbane renaming is here on this forum. There has been zero local mention of it here. It's a fantasy.

[octave]

Still waiting for good arguments against it.     Don't just say that "if I don't understand it I should squeal little girl and reject it. Give an example of a country where this kind of thing has been instituted and the wheels have fallen off.   

[willedoo]

A lot of these stories are the product of the outrage industry. It's their business model. There's money in stirring the sheep.

[old man emu]

To my mind, the sad thing about the referendum is that whichever way the vote goes, there will be no change in the opportunities for those citizens of Australia who live in places remote from the economic hubs of the Nation to access equivalent levels of health and education which are the foundation stones on which a Nation's citizens build something better for their children than they had for themselves.

 

The money spent on this referendum, and subsequently if the result is "Yes", would be best spent on helping Aborigines who live in those remote areas to have the same opportunities to share in and contribute to the Nation's history.

[octave]

2 minutes ago, willedoo said:

The odd thing is, I'm a Queenslander and live a one hour drive north of Brisbane, I listen to the ABC local radio every day, try to stay informed through a variety of sources and the first I've heard of a Brisbane renaming is here on this forum. There has been zero local mention of it here. It's a fantasy.

 

Yep, that is because it is largely bullshit.  Yep is a few airports the arrivals boards have alternated (oh my god how will we cope) but I read an article that said that the name of Brisbane was going to change to the Aboriginal name/ As far as I can see this is hysterical bullshit designed to enraged those of limited intellect. I don't say this just out of gut feeling but I have searched for this (google is your friend) the best quote I came across was this (sorry for profanity)   "Shock jocks building their own strawmen and then wanking themselves dry with rage. Nothing in it"

 

I have seen this before.  mabo  ooooohhhh they will take people's houses.  Gay marriage, oh next people will be wanting the right to marry animals. All right-wing bullshit.   These people are just afraid of any change.

[willedoo]

One of the lamest arguments for the no case has been 'I can't see how it will help the aboriginals'. Well, it might and it might not. It definitely can't help them if it doesn't exist. But it just might if it does. It's a bit like avoiding doing something because you think you will fail. Like NASA saying ' I don't think a Lunar project will work, so let's give up on the idea'.

[octave]

3 minutes ago, old man emu said:

To my mind, the sad thing about the referendum is that whichever way the vote goes, there will be no change in the opportunities for those citizens of Australia who live in places remote from the economic hubs of the Nation to access equivalent levels of health and education which are the foundation stones on which a Nation's citizens build something better for their children than they had for themselves.

 

The money spent on this referendum, and subsequently if the result is "Yes", would be best spent on helping Aborigines who live in those remote areas to have the same opportunities to share in and contribute to the Nation's history.

 

So why oppose it?

[willedoo]

5 minutes ago, old man emu said:

To my mind, the sad thing about the referendum is that whichever way the vote goes, there will be no change in the opportunities for those citizens of Australia who live in places remote from the economic hubs of the Nation to access equivalent levels of health and education which are the foundation stones on which a Nation's citizens build something better for their children than they had for themselves.

 

The money spent on this referendum, and subsequently if the result is "Yes", would be best spent on helping Aborigines who live in those remote areas to have the same opportunities to share in and contribute to the Nation's history.

ome, that's your personal view, and a negative one. Some others are more positive. Nobody will know if you are right in your prediction or wrong if we at least don't try it. All I'm saying is, give it a go; be positive.

[old man emu]

3 minutes ago, octave said:

 

So why oppose it?

I suppose because I think that what I expressed in the second paragraph is more important than the hoo-ha surrounding a management system document.

[octave]

1 minute ago, old man emu said:

I suppose because I think that what I expressed in the second paragraph is more important than the hoo-ha surrounding a management system document.

 Honestly, I cant be bothered to look at your first paragraph (sorry), But tell me this what is the downside of Canada, Finland, Norway, and New Zealand?

[willedoo]

1 minute ago, old man emu said:

I suppose because I think that what I expressed in the second paragraph is more important than the hoo-ha surrounding a management system document.

ome, that's only what you think, as you said. Everyone is entitled to differing opinions. If the no vote gets up, you will never know whether you were right or wrong. If the yes vote wins, at some time in the future you will know one way or the other.

[old man emu]

1 minute ago, octave said:

But tell me this what is the downside of Canada, Finland, Norway, and New Zealand?

They're bloody cold in Winter.

[spacesailor]

I've just read a doco about ' Western Australia ' having an Aboriginal law were it's backfiring on developers,  We're once they applied for a D A certificate,  they now have to get the Aboriginals to agree ,  plus even the government is caught up in the fiascos,  about regreening a burnt out

Area . So no tree's are to be planted , due to their new ' friendly ' Aboriginal agreement  ! .

So,  No from me .

I prefer the ' Tax-payers ' $ 300,000 the government is spending on properganda. 

To go into something ' useful ' .

spacesailor

[octave]

1 minute ago, spacesailor said:

I've just read a doco about ' Western Australia ' having an Aboriginal law were it's backfiring on developers,

 That is interesting, those poor developers. Developers are the real downtrodden in society. I imagine you would be donating your excess income to these poor people. But seriously there may be a grain of truth in what you say so please post some facts or links. By the way, you may have a fantastic point so please elaborate.

[red750]

21 minutes ago, willedoo said:

Everyone is entitled to differing opinions.

Not on this forum. Fall in line or piss off.

[red750]

22 minutes ago, willedoo said:

If the yes vote wins, at some time in the future you will know one way or the other.

And if it's wrong you're stuck with it. It's enshrined in the constitution.

[octave]

5 minutes ago, red750 said:

Not on this forum. Fall in line or piss off.

Have you ever been prevented from expressing your opinion?  I am more than happy for you to express your opinion but if other people disagree, that is not a "piss off". Perhaps you need to be willing to rigorously debate your views and provide evidence.   On many occasions, I have disagreed with you. Do you see this as a "piss off"?   I can assure you I am well and truly up for a spirited well-researched debate. If you feel that disagreeing with your view is a "piss off" then guess perhaps you need to find a forum of people who believe exactly what you believe.  But I have faith in you, just post your opinion and back it up with rigorous evidence. 

[Jerry_Atrick]

59 minutes ago, red750 said:

And if it's wrong you're stuck with it. It's enshrined in the constitution.

The risk is that if it doesn't work, then Aboriginal lives will not be better off; if it does work, Aboriginal lives will be better off. But what is the downside to the rest of the community?

 

If it doesn't work or somehow oeprates to the detrmiment of the community (and not self-interests of a tiny part of the community - such as developers), then the government can, and pressure will be brought to them to refine. This is what happens with every other institution the constitution confers and requires obligations of the govenment. So why is this different?

 

1 hour ago, octave said:

Still waiting for good arguments against it.     

 

 

 

BTW Octave, can't help but wondering, has my mate, Wolfie or one of his mates been around - you're unusually fiesty this evening 😉

(I like it!)

 

 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Jerry_Atrick

[willedoo]

5 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

BTW Octave, can't help buit wondering, has my mate, Wolfie or one of his mates been around - you're unusually fiesty this evening 😉

(I like it!)

I wondered about that myself, but just a bit jealous considering I'm not allowed anywhere near Wolfie (or his mates).

[octave]

12 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

BTW Octave, can't help but wondering, has my mate, Wolfie or one of his mates been around - you're unusually fiesty this evening 😉

(I like it!)

 

jeez, you can read me like a cheap novel, I am drinking a cheap little number called  "What Lies beneath" pretty bloody ordinary.  Normally wife and I would share 1 bottle once a week over 2 days.  I was feeling a little cheeky this week and whilst cooking dinner I cracked another bottle shhhhhh don't tell.  She doesn't need to know. But yes a little more wine than usual does make me a little feisty.  I love a debate I can get my teeth into but I need hard facts.

[Marty_d]

Your secret is safe Octave. 

[old man emu]

10 hours ago, Marty_d said:

Your secret is safe Octave. 

Pending a small "donation".