Police make unbelievable find under couch in Perth home.

[red750]

Story and video here.

[willedoo]

It's a bit hard to figure out the story from that article. It said he was charged with possession of unlicensed ammunition, firearms, and bulletproof clothing, but only received $2,600 in fines. They went on to say he was a licensed firearm owner and most of the firearms were registered. If the laws in W.A. are similar to other states, he would lose his license and firearms and not be able to apply for another license for five years for the offenses. But the fines seem a bit light. As an example, possession of a bullet proof vest in Queensland has a maximum of 4 years jail and $10,000 fine.

 

The other odd bit in the article was that the government is banning more than 50 types of firearm and 19 types of ammunition, but only 248 licensed firearms are involved in the buyback. The numbers don't add up.

[old man emu]

Another Cessna plummeting from the skies example of modern reporting.

[onetrack]

Some slightly better reporting, below. The bloke is a martial arts promoter, and obviously a bit of a gun-fondler. I don't know what his criminal history is, but he can't have had much of a record, to be able to acquire the bulk of the weapons legally, and have a licence for them. Of course, he's just a naughty boy, and the firearms fines represent that view - but God Forbid when the council nail him for unauthorised additions to his home!!

 

The W.A. Govt is having a major overhaul of W.A.'s firearms laws and the W.A. Police are driving it because they've figured out about 80,000 legally-owned firearms are held in gun cabinets in Perth city, and they point out that the vast majority of them are completely unnecessary in a modern city, and a large percentage of them are never used or hardly used.

 

The big list of proposed high-powered firearms to be banned is just a big catch-all list, and 98% of the firearms on the list would not exist in W.A.

I can see the brother going right off about Govt high-handedness, he's got a .243 lever action Browning - but he's 82 and he's probably rarely fired it in recent years. He doesn't really have any need for it any more, it's that simple.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11746691/Underground-gun-bunker-David-Ice-man-Letizia-house-Perth-police-tip-off.html

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-05/mental-health-checks-for-gun-owners-in-wa/101923596

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by onetrack

[willedoo]

It sounds like there were plenty of things they could get him on. They mentioned rifles and handguns on a gunrack, meaning not stored in a proper safe. Even if the bunker door was lockable, it wouldn't qualify as safe storage without safes. It also mentioned he had boxes of .50 cal. ammunition for one of his rifles. The original bans were for .50 and over, not up to and including .50 cal..

 

In the photos you can see he has the bolts in the rifles which is another no-no. The bolts and ammunition have to be stored in a separate safe or separate safe compartment. The bloke must be a bit of a dill. You can understand the bunker if all the firearms were unregistered, but given the fact he was licensed and most of the firearms were as well, what did he think he was going to do in the event of a routine safe storage inspection? If he had half a brain, he would have known he was not compliant on many counts.

[willedoo]

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

The big list of proposed high-powered firearms to be banned is just a big catch-all list, and 98% of the firearms on the list would not exist in W.A.

I can see the brother going right off about Govt high-handedness, he's got a .243 lever action Browning - but he's 82 and he's probably rarely fired it in recent years. He doesn't really have any need for it any more, it's that simple.

I can't see that number of 248 firearms to be handed in being any where near accurate. I recon they've left a couple of zero's off the end. If .243's are being banned, there would be a some thousands of them in the state for sure, and that's just one calibre.

[onetrack]

I'm not sure that .243's are going to be banned, the restrictions on owning a .243 are already pretty high. The Police have just tightened a loophole where a few W.A. Station owners, mostly in the North, were handing out letters for "permission to shoot" on their properties, for a fee, to anyone - so any of the gun-fondlers in the city could acquire a high-powered rifle.

As the cops said, "Living South of the City and getting permission to shoot, from a landowner in the Kimberley or Pilbara doesn't make any sense at all, and is simply a few profit-oriented people perverting the intent of the letters for "permission to shoot" process."

It appears that heavy weapons are in the authorities sights, the high-powered, large calibre weapons that can carry for a long way. But of course, they really need to crack down on the number of illegal firearms, of which there are a multitude, still.

It never ceases to amaze me, the ease at which drug dealers and bikies can acquire firearms - and lots of concealable firearms, too.

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by onetrack

[onetrack]

There's a more comprehensive video from inside the bunker on this local newspaper site. If you get a site blocker asking you to register or pay, just open an incognito browser, and you'll gain access to the article.

 

He certainly had a nice little stash, and I don't understand how he avoided jail by being found in possession of a .50 cal and a pile of ammunition for it. Probably because the jails are already full.

 

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/watch-police-uncover-hidden-gun-bunker-in-perth-suburban-home-20230214-p5ckdr.html

[rgmwa]

Having all that stuff confiscated would amount to a pretty hefty fine. Must have cost a fair bit to buy so many guns and boxes of ammunition.

[spacesailor]

There is a chance , He is a member of a club & reloading the clubs shell's for the next meeting.

And

maybe some of the guns could be member owned ,( confiscated ) .

My brother & I were asked to do a large reload task for a NZ club. mostly 303 ex-military rifles . with the police the most owner's .

Shame I had to get rid of my ancestors , three generation 303 with the snipers sight , that was used to blowup shipping mines .

also a 22 Lithgow target rifle , that was a presentation .

spacesailor

[Jerry_Atrick]

If there were all or mostly  licensed, presumably to him, why were they confiscated? Yes, unlicensed ones should have been confiscated... Maybe posession of ammo, or not storing the guns separately to the firing mechanisms? Not stored at a gun club? I am guessing the ammo? .. but don't know the laws over there...

Edited February 15, 2023 by Jerry_Atrick

[old man emu]

Probably confiscated due to not following the safe storage rules as pointed out here. You can't blame him for wanting a shooting range. How many people erect structures to allow them to pursue a hobby? And what safer place for a shooting range than underground? Apart from the extreme risk of taking in lead and other chemicals from cartridge discharge.

[willedoo]

5 hours ago, old man emu said:

And what safer place for a shooting range than underground? Apart from the extreme risk of taking in lead and other chemicals from cartridge discharge.

My guess is that it was an air rifle/air pistol shooting gallery. That would be in line with the very short range and the lack of ventilation to exhaust atmospheric lead.

[willedoo]

7 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

If there were all or mostly  licensed, presumably to him, why were they confiscated? Yes, unlicensed ones should have been confiscated... Maybe posession of ammo, or not storing the guns separately to the firing mechanisms? Not stored at a gun club? I am guessing the ammo? .. but don't know the laws over there...

Jerry, under Australian State gun laws, any offence under the weapons act results in mandatory confiscation of firearms and license suspension. If convicted, it becomes permanent for at least five years before being able to re-apply. License holders have the right to appeal. Also, the same confiscation and license suspension occurs if convicted of any drug offense, assault or other acts of violence, or the issuance of a DVO. Mental health issues result in the same. If a license holder is treated for depression, the doctor is legally bound to notify the police if he knows the patient is a licensed gun owner. Automatic loss of license and firearms is mandatory in that situation.

 

Under the acts and regulations, if they were enforced to the letter, there would hardly be a gun owner in Australia who didn't breach some regulation or law. It covers some of the most trivial things. It's just the way laws are written; they like to cover all bases and purposely leave things open to legal interpretation so as to reduce the chance of loopholes.

 

I still recon the bloke must have been as thick as two short planks to have legal and illegal firearms stored together, let alone being in a non compliant way. The first thing the police would have asked is to inspect the legal firearms on their list. You can see in the video that the ammo storage safe is open upstairs when the trapdoor is opening. The cops wouldn't have found it all by accident; the owner would have had no choice but to show them where the guns were stored as they were mostly registered and on the list that the police would have had with them.

 

If he had no unregistered firearms there, had the legal ones locked within that room, and had the bolts and ammo locked in a separate safe, he would be in the clear and only have the local council to deal with for building an unregistered extension. For firearms to be displayed on a rack like that, they would need to be chained to the wall structure with trigger locks etc.. It's really dumb; it wouldn't have been much of a bother to be in compliance. Another thing to note, all that ammo would be on file. For mainly anti-terror reasons, buying powder and ammo is regulated and records kept. Gun dealers by law have to record license details when selling ammo and powder, and forward it to the relevant authority. There's a limit to the amount of powder hand loaders can possess or buy at any one time.

[old man emu]

30 minutes ago, willedoo said:

only have the local council to deal with for building an unregistered extension

I wonder if digging a big hole under your house and putting up walls  and no doubt solid floor is an @extension@ like a room built on the ground. Interesting legal topic.

[onetrack]

My stepdaughters boyfriend is an armourer by trade - although he works as a train controller in his day job. He recently built a big new shed (about 240 sq m), and he wanted to install a test firing range for checking firearms that he intended to repair.

However, the absolutely onerous conditions involved in applying for, and maintaining the firing range made him give up the idea, it was all just too hard.

The security requirements were staggering, and it is very obvious the laws and regulations are intended to deter 99% of applicants.

[onetrack]

4 minutes ago, old man emu said:

I wonder if digging a big hole under your house and putting up walls  and no doubt solid floor is an @extension@ like a room built on the ground. Interesting legal topic.

You would be required to supply some substantial ground engineering reports for an excavation under your house, and that's a lot more involved than a simple extension like an additional room.

Soil types, groundwater control, effect on adjoining properties, engineering of reinforcements, type of reinforcements, fire and safety laws compliance, the list of costs is endless, and it would be an expensive exercise to get it approved.

 

I need to level my industrial block in a rural town - but any fill over 900mm in height requires support with a concrete wall or blocks, and an engineers report to the council is needed to proceed.

I'm just on the borderline of the 900mm fill, so I think I'll be ensuring the fill is 899mm in height.

[spacesailor]

OR !

To send them to the 'Other-side ' like this poor sod .

He probably wanted to be a ' good law abiding citizen ' . ( with his gun crazy mates ) .

spacesailor 

[old man emu]

It would be interesting to know what the sub-soil strata were - solid rock or alluvium. I looked at houses being built on the distant outskirts of Chicago and they all had basements dug out of the soil. Walled with concrete blocks and with seepage sumps and submersible pumps.

[rgmwa]

The area in question is most likely deep sands. Easy digging, but retaining the soil and supporting the floor of the building would need some engineering. Water table could also be quite close to the surface, but maybe deep enough not to flood the basement. 

 

[Marty_d]

Cops are very strict with storage requirements down here.  I've heard (anecdotally) that if they come to do an inspection and ask anyone else in the house, apart from the registered owner, where the gun safe keys are - and they know - then it's a violation.   

[willedoo]

3 hours ago, Marty_d said:

Cops are very strict with storage requirements down here.  I've heard (anecdotally) that if they come to do an inspection and ask anyone else in the house, apart from the registered owner, where the gun safe keys are - and they know - then it's a violation.   

It's the same everywhere Marty. Only the license holder can have access to the keys.

[old man emu]

They might be strict, but Australian gun laws have saved a lot of lives. We don't have toddlers topping baby-sitters, and our criminals keep their gunfights to themselves. Yes, we have had a couple of nut case mass shootings, but no rules or regulations will prevent those isolated incidents. 

 

12 hours ago, Marty_d said:

ask anyone else in the house, apart from the registered owner

That provision is often included in the Regulations to an Act that is meant to control an activity. It generally falls under the scope of hindering. An example is a traffic offence. Police can demand from a passenger the identity of the driver at the time of an alleged offence, and failure to do so is an offence.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I would like them to do just a bit of restrictions on the police when they do restrictions on the rest of us...  for example, drawing a weapon before turning on your camera should be a terrible offence. I dunno if it is anything at the moment.

[Bruce Tuncks]

My son-in law, a gun enthusiast from the US, says that Hitler was the first to enact restrictions on guns, except for his own police of course.