Police make unbelievable find under couch in Perth home.

[kgwilson]

Cops in NZ still don't carry guns either, even after the Christchurch massacre. They have what they call the Armed Offenders Squad, highly trained and more or less Commando/SAS types which now has a lot more units than  when I lived there. Normal cops have ready access to firearms these days & I am told they always have firearms in patrol cars, they just don't carry them on their hip.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Sounds like a sensible compromise.

[Bruce Tuncks]

There is a good  idea to use for the next clamp-down on ordinary people having guns. Make the police stop wearing cowboy guns, yet have them in the patrol cars. 

[old man emu]

If you had to spend the day in a vehicle with a filled holster at your hip, you'd soon go for the idea of positioning the holster on your thigh. A hip-mounted holster is uncomfortable.  And consider this WH&S matter. When you are wearing a holster at your hip, the lap portion of your seatbelt goes over it, thereby reducing its ability to tension properly in the event of a collision. And as it does tension as much as it can, it pushes the holster and butt under your ribs, on the right upper part of the abdomen where the liver, gall bladder, right kidney, and pancreas are located. 

 

Yes. The thigh-mounted holster does give a gun-fighter appearance, but it is a compromise between safe stowage of "tools of trade" and access to those tools when required.

[Bruce Tuncks]

OME, the problem is that not all cops are as wise as you were.  Some of them are not really trustworthy.

There was a case in Qld where they continually tasered a guy through the bars of the lock-up, just for the fun of seeing him jump around. Unfortunately for them, the guy died and the story came out.  Now I am sure that this was a most unusual case, but it does effect the amount of trust I would give a stranger who was in uniform.

[old man emu]

I try to divorce myself from contemporary police. I suppose their behaviour is due to the inability of senior police to instil discipline in the generation now making up the junior police ranks. In NSW Promotion to Sergeant under the seniority system took 14 to 15 years of service. Now it doesn't seem to take long at all, so the Sergeants don't have the experience in managing personnel, and they themselves never worked in a strongly disciplined organisation.

[facthunter]

You KNOW you're old when the Cops look young.   Nev

[kgwilson]

So true. The poor female Cop shot by the conspiracist nutters in Qld looked like a Teenager. Even her hat was too big for her.

[spacesailor]

'' conspiracist nutters ''

My Poor Harassed daughter has been fined for exercising without a covid mask, even when having to use her ' Ventolin puffer '' for asthma .

Now she has to watch-out for the police following her to raise some revenue , as she wears a ' head lamp ' which doesn't go around a scooter helmet  , so that's a few bob in the cops revenue raising .

IF they see her Before she see's them .

[old man emu]

I'm sick of people whinging about getting infringement notices they think are not deserved, yet don't make the effort to bring the matter before a Court for adjudication. 

 

And don't crap on to me about the cost of hiring a solicitor. Courts are quite accommodating to people who prepare what they want to say before entering the courtroom. What's wrong if you are hesitant to speak up in a courtroom, with sitting down and writing down what you would like to say. Before court starts you can seek out the Court Officer and explain your difficulty in speaking up but that you have written down what you want to tell the court, and ask if you could hand the paper up to be read. The Court doesn't want Perry Mason or Rumpole. It wants to get through the day's work as efficiently as possible.

 

And when will people learn that the infringement notice that you get is not a record of a guilty verdict. It is an accusation that you committed an offence. It is the start of a prosecution process. You are the one who chooses to agree that you did the wrong thing, or disagree with the accuser. It is up to the accuser to prove that you did wrong. There is the third option, and that is to agree that you did wrong, but give the adjudicator an explanation which might result in the waiving of any penalty other than a note that you agreed that you did wrong.

 

So, Spacey, what's this very serious offence she's committing on her scooter? 

 

 

[spacesailor]

Lot's

Riding at night ' no rear light' , ( at night ) No Blooody Helmet . riding on ' footpath ' . And don't mention the dog .

And thats just from the top of my head !. They're so good at double dipping on your OFFENCE, I suspect , the police can double that list , to fill the Revenue coffers

She still had to pay the fine , even after writing an appeal letter .( the law stated ' Not needed when exercising ' ) .

[old man emu]

ever thought that she might have an attitude?

[spacesailor]

YES !!!!

It's called ' Paranoia ' .

Comes from Forever being watched by the ' Revenue Gods ' ,

We Are supposed to watch the ' Road ' while driving BUT we Are forever watching the Blooody speedometer & speed signs ,

AT the detriment of anyone jaywalking, children especially .

Which is the MOST important ! a couple of Ks over the posted speed , or watching for kids .

Them & us . two different outlooks .

spacesailor5

[Jerry_Atrick]

I have to admit, when compared to road traffic policing here, Aussie (well, certainly Victorian) traffic policing is more about renevue generation than safety - on the whole. Note, that does not necessarily mean policemen (or is it police-peoples) are the blame. The over-zealous use of speed cameras at times and locations where doing literally a couple of k's over the limit will end up in a fine is unbelievable, and IMHO, unsafe.

 

When I returned to Aus back in 2003, I drove though the Domain tunnel early on a Sunday morning. The tunnel had been built since I left, and I had no idea there were speed cameras. 2 tickets on that one - on the way out, 82kph and on the way back 83kph. Virutally no traffic, could see for miles.. Apparently, if I only got the one ticket, I could possibly have been able to have it quashed but because I got two on the same day, they both stood. I precursored my line to the "client services officer" (exactly why the call us client's, I don't know), with "I know you're not responsible, but.." and then asked whether she thought it was safer to be looking at the speedo or out the window with such a marginal breach of the speed limit at a time when there was virtually no one else on the road.. There was a pause, with "I understand, but there has to be a line set somewhere." Which is complete bollocks in the context, as the correct response, if safety is the prime concern, is that "there has to be a line for the average/worst road situations, and also some tolerance depending on the situation.

 

I also copped another fine on Malvern road, which during the day is quite busy and I would have gladly accepted it, except, again, it was early on a weekend morning (can't remember), and was definitely no moving cars around - only one  parked on the kerb where I was done (which I guess was an unmarked police car with a camera. 62kph in a 60 zone (it was 60 then).

 

These are nothing but revenue raising. And, actually, when I was in Melbourne over this period, I think it was a Labor state government, and the relevant minister (can't remember if it was police or roads) confessed it was revenue raising. I was expecting there to be a hullaballoo in the press about it, but there was nothing.

 

Over here, I have been radar gunned going over 95mph on a Motorway (70mph is the limit). I thought that was it; it was about 5am Christmas morning.. no other cars.. Police didn't come for me and nothing in the post. I have has a letter from the speed camera team (public servants, not police) of me going thorugh a village doing 34mph in a 30 zone at about midnight, accompanied by a letter than in the situation, it wasn't approprirate to fine me, but remind me not to speed, and that at nromal hours, it would have been a fine.

 

If you get caught speeding under 15mph over the limit (10 I think in urban zones, but zero tolerance around school crossings and similar high risk areas), you can elect to pay the fine and take the points, or attend a speed awareness course - which is cheaper, no points on the licence and doesn't impact your insurance.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Jerry_Atrick

[willedoo]

Where I live, I wish speeding offences were enforced more strongly. In my area, I would estimate the % of cars speeding in the 80kph and 100kph zones would be at least 80% or more. And not by a couple of k's over; they all want to do 15 or 20 k's over the limit. People who sit on the speed limit get abused by other drivers as if they are the ones doing something wrong. The scary thing is the amount of trucks, including B Doubles driving way over the limit. I'm all for more policing of speeding. Simple way to avoid a fine - don't speed.

[Marty_d]

We've got a neighbour who's a transport inspector (surprisingly, when it comes to road rule enforcement, they have more powers than the police).

His advice to me - when you get pulled over and asked that innocent-sounding question "Sir, do you know why I pulled you over today?" - never EVER answer truthfully.

Always plead ignorance.  The reason they ask you that is that if you say "Yes officer, I'm afraid I was over the speed limit" - then that's on their body cam and they have all the proof they need that you were guilty.  Try taking that to court afterwards and they can just play back your own admission of guilt.

[kgwilson]

2ks over. How do they account for speedo error? I know all speedos are supposed to read over the limit but some are pretty accurate. Accuracy changes with tyre wear as well. I don't know about Victoria but a speedo check is not part of the annual inspection in NSW.

[spacesailor]

There Was an over-speed exemption in MPH , But it was drastically lowered in Kph .

The only reason Must be to raise more revenue .

spacesailor

[Jerry_Atrick]

3 hours ago, willedoo said:

Simple way to avoid a fine - don't speed.

That is, sadly, the problem in Aus, and why the government can use it to justify using traffic rules as a revenue raiser and everyone  agrees it is justifiable.

 

It's arbitrary; Yes there is some science behind the numbers.. and in virtually every other offence, there are defences including mitigating cicumstances.. but or some reason, Aussies are hoodwinked to think that as long as they stay under a limit, they are safe, but go oveer it, and they are knocking on death's door (or setting it up for someone else).

 

In the examples you gave, the UK would be tough on drivers - material speeding, especially where the roads are probably single lane each way, etc., and abusing other drivers will likely get you fined and/or a date with a magistrate and because the driving sounds like it increases danger.  They have little tolerance for that sort of stuff. But, the examples I gave, where it is marginal excess at worst, and not in conditions that is going increase any danger to oneself or others, traffic enforcement gives people the benefit of the doubt. In the cases, technically I was speeding. - one by 2.5% and the other by 3% through not monitoring the speedo religiously, but looking outside and unf. allowing the car to notch up literally a couple of k's more.. with no one around to abuse.. .Whether it was really deserving a fine the same as for someone intentionally going up to 30kph over (as it was at the time), I am not so sure. Over here, as they don't use it as a revenue raising tool, I guess they take a different approach.

 

As an aside, in response to an Article in The Age some years ago (think it was about 2014), where th author was advocating a 50kph limit everywhere, including freeways, I did a bit of research and Australia fared a lot worse in all reasonable measures except absolute measures, of road fatalities and levels of injury than all Western European (inc. UK) countries, eexcept for France. And when you consider whow they speed on the continent, the denser ropad traffc, and the more treeacherous driving conditions on the whole, I am sorry, but I am not convinced that Australia quite has road safety sorted yet - but it does earn good revenue.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Jerry_Atrick

[red750]

2 hours ago, kgwilson said:

I don't know about Victoria but a speedo check is not part of the annual inspection in NSW.

Victoria doesn't have annual inspections. If they did my car woulld have been off the road two years earlier. Central locking was stuffed. Unable to lock.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Vic does (or did) have spot roadside inspections and could issue a yellow canary, whcih was a label affixed to the windscreen saying you had to present to a police station within a certain period of time, effectively with a new RWC. I got pulled over once in a FJ55 I had and the buggers found nothing, except my helical whip CB antenna was in the line of sight through the front windscreen, and but not obstructive enough to fail a RWC. I wanted tohem to find stuff as I had just bought it and it was still under used car warranty.

[Marty_d]

20 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

That is, sadly, the problem in Aus, and why the government can use it to justify using traffic rules as a revenue raiser and everyone  agrees it is justifiable.

 

It's arbitrary; Yes there is some science behind the numbers.. and in virtually every other offence, there are defences including mitigating cicumstances.. but or some reason, Aussies are hoodwinked to think that as long as they stay under a limit, they are safe, but go oveer it, and they are knocking on death's door (or setting it up for someone else).

 

In the examples you gave, the UK would be tough on drivers - material speeding, especially where the roads are probably single lane each way, etc., and abusing other drivers will likely get you fined and/or a date with a magistrate and because the driving sounds like it increases danger.  They have little tolerance for that sort of stuff. But, the examples I gave, where it is marginal excess at worst, and not in conditions that is going increase any danger to oneself or others, traffic enforcement gives people the benefit of the doubt. In the cases, technically I was speeding. - one by 2.5% and the other by 3% through not monitoring the speedo religiously, but looking outside and unf. allowing the car to notch up literally a couple of k's more.. with no one around to abuse.. .Whether it was really deserving a fine the same as for someone intentionally going up to 30kph over (as it was at the time), I am not so sure. Over here, as they don't use it as a revenue raising tool, I guess they take a different approach.

 

As an aside, in response to an Article in The Age some years ago (think it was about 2014), where th author was advocating a 50kph limit everywhere, including freeways, I did a bit of research and Australia fared a lot worse in all reasonable measures except absolute measures, of road fatalities and levels of injury than all Western European (inc. UK) countries, eexcept for France. And when you consider whow they speed on the continent, the denser ropad traffc, and the more treeacherous driving conditions on the whole, I am sorry, but I am not convinced that Australia quite has road safety sorted yet - but it does earn good revenue.

France have the entirely sensible idea of a dual speed limit on the freeway, 130 when it's fine and 110 when it's raining.

[old man emu]

If you check your speedo against a GPS device (use Google Maps directions on you Smartphone - but have a passenger monitoring it) you will most likely find that your speedo overreads by up to 10%. That means if your speedon show 100 kph, the GPS will show a low 90s speed. I guess that saves car manufacturers from being sued for faulty products as the only way you would know the speedo was out is if you kept getting pinged for being slightly over the limit.

 

The overly strict enforcement of speed limits does nothing to enhance road safety in all but high risk areas. And sometimes a speed limit is way too high. Where? Shopping centre carparks and petrol station forecourts. 

 

Although a shopping centre carpark is on private land, it is still considered a road under traffic law. So, if the speed limit on the street leading to the carpark or servo is, say 50 kph, that is the speed limit in the carpark or on the forecourt. Not that it is likely that such a speed would be exceeded, but, since the traffic laws apply there as well, then the offence "Drive at a Speed Dangerous to the Public" can occur. I consider that any speed in excess of walking speed in a crowded carpark to be a dangerous speed. It doesn't take much to kill a pre-schooler who has run away from Mum into the alley between car spaces.

 

I am led to believe that it is an established fact based on driver behaviour research that motorists will instinctively set a safe speed for a length of roadway, with upper limits influenced by regulated speed limits. Deviations above those instinctive limits are held by the public to constitute "speeding". That discretion shown by motorists is the discretion that should be shown be law enforcement. Properly trained traffic police should apply the same discretion, as Jerry indicates they do in England. Unfortunately, speed limits are set ultimately by persons who do not have both the training and driving experience to do so. 

 

In NSW, the "flash for cash" operations are not carried out by sworn police. I doubt even if the people who sit in those vehicles even hold a Security licence. The operations are contracted out, and the only way a contracting company can show that it is out there "monitoring" speed limits is by the number of breaches detected. Often, when I was performing HWP duties a moron would angrily say, "You've got to get your quota, don't ya." The standard reply was, "Nah. They abolished quotas. We can book as many as we like now." 

[red750]

45 minutes ago, old man emu said:

Although a shopping centre carpark is on private land, it is still considered a road under traffic law

Even the drive-thru at a takeaway food place (Macca's, KFC,etc) is subject to the road law. You can get pinged using your phone if the engine is running. Even smart watches come under these rules now.

[red750]

50 minutes ago, old man emu said:

I doubt even if the people who sit in those vehicles even hold a Security licence.

Many are unmanned autonomous devices these days.