Toyota bought a Tesla Model Y - and pulled it apart, to see why Tesla are gaining on them

[onetrack]

And the Toyota engineers and bosses were stunned at what they found, when they dismantled the Tesla. Most importantly, the Toyota blokes were amazed at the differences in construction between the current model Tesla Model Y, and the earlier versions that looked exactly the same on the outside.

 

Under the skin of the current Model Y, Toyota engineers and bosses discovered cutting edge engineering and manufacturing processes that made the Toyota people call the current Tesla Model Y, a "work of art".

 

The current Tesla Model Y is much lighter, simpler in construction, and has better range than the previous Model Y. The key to Tesla success in their advanced engineering and production processes is the use of huge cast aluminium "frames" that reduce the need to manufacture a lot of additional parts and brackets to build the car. There are reportedly just 4 of these huge cast aluminium frames comprising the main structure of the Model Y. The panels are simply fitted to these frames.

 

The knowledge Toyota people have gained from studying the Tesla Model Y has made them realise they've been asleep at the wheel with their highly conservative approach to vehicle design, and their minimal attention to new all-EV models.

 

Toyota now have a new CEO (he comes from Lexus, so not exactly an outsider), but the new boss, Koji Sato, is a believer in EV's, and he's going to set Toyota on a rapid path to all-EV product lines, with the first all-new Toyota full EV slated for around 2026.

 

Toyota have realised with their examination of the Tesla Model Y, that a complete new vehicle platform dedicated to all-electric power is going to be the way to go. Hybrids are rapidly going to be a thing of the past, and no doubt the manufacturing advances displayed in the Tesla Model Y will find their way into the new range of Toyota EV's.

 

https://insideevs.com/news/655087/toyota-engineers-after-tesla-model-y-teardown-work-of-art/?fbclid=IwAR15sG_XVNnc9t1akW-VWOoNa2oMl0lgEtNfdawYnsyZ-TS4JAYSJRBNuVA

[facthunter]

A hybrid is the choice of people who don't think it through. IT has the disadvantages of BOTH types . ALL electric gives a very LOW maintenance  future. Toyota have up till now made the wrong decision. Good to see they are where they are now.. A two way bet is not an option.   Nev

[kgwilson]

Until this recent change in company philosophy Toyota was on the road to bankruptcy. Hybrids are expensive and not very efficient and appeal to people with range anxiety and who deep down don't really think that the EV revolution will kill off ICE transportation.

 

The advances in battery technology in just the past couple of years has been astounding. The price of Lithium has gone through the roof and with Sodium now rivalling Lithium for energy density at less that 1/3 of the cost so most new EVs will be using this in the near future. CATL is now mass producing Sodium batteries. Not only that the first solid state EVs are rolling off the assembly line. Average range has more than doubled in the last couple of years as well as charge times with 350 KW super chargers appearing.

 

Toyota got to the very top with its range of vehicles and the best reliability but like all things being there breeds complacency while rivals diversify and catch up and eventually overtake. It may be too late for Toyota to maintain its position especially with the huge development going on in China. Tesla still holds No 1 spot in technology, manufacturing and sales and doesn't look like relinquishing this for some time yet.

[facthunter]

I personally think Toyota has been trading on it's name for a while.  It's cheapest UTE was a POS. Anyone who test drove it wouldn't buy it.  Nev

[red750]

I may have misheard, or misunderstood, but a friend at the Men's Shed who was a former service manager for Bib Stillwell Ford, said that if you want to rapid charge your electric vehicle at home, it will cost about $16,000 to have 3-phase power installed. Regular power points will trickle charge.

[octave]

27 minutes ago, red750 said:

I may have misheard, or misunderstood, but a friend at the Men's Shed who was a former service manager for Bib Stillwell Ford, said that if you want to rapid charge your electric vehicle at home, it will cost about $16,000 to have 3-phase power installed. Regular power points will trickle charge.

 

My son has 3 phase which he got well before owning an EV to power a workshop. I do question $16000 although I guess it may depend on many things. A quick search suggests $4500 to $6500.  For most people that nightly trickle charge will be adequate for daily use and  better in terms of giving the battery an easy life.   For a quick fast charge the local supercharging facility would be the thing. 

[facthunter]

There's already the figures to Justify Community batteries. Just needs switched on Councils (My Pun ) to wake up to the opportunity. and more uptake of rooftop solar. Nev

[facthunter]

This approach would lessen the cost of bigger networks and hasten the availability outside of and before the existence of a large network. Nev.

[Old Koreelah]

4 hours ago, facthunter said:

A hybrid is the choice of people who don't think it through. IT has the disadvantages of BOTH types…

Mazda’s EV with a tiny Wankel range-extender engine looks to be the ideal future car for this country.

[facthunter]

It's got more Logic to it than the hybrid. Mazda had some success with wankels. Nev

[facthunter]

I  can see an opening for a single castoring wheeled mini trailer hinged  to the drawbar containing a generator which can be hired for places that may have suss electricity supply for EV's Nev

[onetrack]

Re Tesla going gangbusters - I read where Hertz has placed an order for 100,000 Teslas (obviously to be delivered over a period) - and orders of that size, are enough to make any Toyota executive or boss sit up and take notice.

[onetrack]

The firies are now coming out with warnings about the dangers posed by EV's in crashes. Despite the EV manufacturers claiming their vehicles are 100% safe in a crash, and they won't blow up and incinerate the occupants - the simple fact remains that the batteries are still a substantial threat in a prang - because if they do actually start to short circuit or smoulder, the fumes are exceptionally toxic. 

 

I wasn't aware until I read this article, as to just how toxic the fumes and smoke are from a Lithium battery fire - especially the cobalt fumes. And hydrogen fluoride and hydrogen cyanide fumes are especially nasty as well.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-12/firefighters-call-for-ev-crash-policy-awareness/101824468

 

 

[facthunter]

You won't have things like large fuel tankers on the roads though.  Nev

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

You won't have things like large fuel tankers on the roads though.  Nev

When you do the calculation  (number of collisions per year)/(number of fuel tankers  x kilometres traveled per year) I think that you'll find that the actual risk of a collision involving a tanker is pretty minimal. And when arriving at a figure for number of collisions, let's count everything from a collision between a tanker and a dickhead trying to pass on the left hand side of a turning tanker, where there is only panel damage to the dickhead's vehicle, to the really big messes. Regulated safety procedures for driving tankers are very strict and those drivers are well trained in safe operations.

[facthunter]

 Those regulations were not enforced in most of the bad tanker accidents. Its unthinkable about one in a tunnel. I never stay driving near a fuel tanker for any longer than I have to. They do not drive any more carefully than any others. I've seen the drivers on the top of a tanker with fuel running everywhere as it overflowed. I rolled my vehicle out of the servo without turning anything on. In professional Aviation respect and care around fuel is trained into you..  Nev

[old man emu]

4 hours ago, facthunter said:

In professional Aviation respect and care around fuel is trained into you.. 

I must admit that what I said about drivers being well trained comes only from my dealings with an aviation fuel distributor who services many regional aerodromes.

[facthunter]

A tarmac fuel spill is a pretty high drama.. Their trucks are well kept and defuel as well as fuel. Their meter reading s are taken as totally valid for on load calculations and invoicing. They have high filtration at point of delivery.  Nev

[kgwilson]

I got refuelled by a truck at Parkes, one of the rare times I have used Avgas. The refueller asked how much and I said it'll probably take 50 litres as the tank was close to half full. The blokes helper pulled the hose out before the pump had completely stopped so I got Avgas all over the front deck. The quality of their filling process was pretty poor. Hopefully the quality of the fuel was better.

[facthunter]

That's NOT the type of service you get at major airports.  Most of the filling is underwing. Overwing top up if a fuel critical flight and has been requested. You might get some venting when taxiing.  Nev

[Old Koreelah]

On 12/3/2023 at 9:56 AM, onetrack said:

The firies are now coming out with warnings about the dangers posed by EV's in crashes. Despite the EV manufacturers claiming their vehicles are 100% safe in a crash, and they won't blow up and incinerate the occupants - the simple fact remains that the batteries are still a substantial threat in a prang…

Our VRA unit just started a short Tech course on de-activating hybrid and electric vehicles. Its mostly for mechanics, but also emergency workers. Some EVs use up to 600volts, so making them safe is pretty important. 1000-volt rubber gloves are a mandatory part of the kit.

One strict procedure is to lock key fobs away, at least three metres from the vehicle, lest it start without warning.