Thin end of the wedge

[red750]

It has been coming for some time, but it has taken a huge jump forward.

 

The ANZ Bank has announced it will no longer handle cash over the counter. All cash transactions, withdrawals and deposits, will now be done via ATM's. The use of cash has certainly dimished drastically, but some people still rely on it, particularly for small purchases. Also, elderly or disabled people who are unable to come to grips with the technology.

 

But there is a darker side. Our privacy is being attacked surruptitiously. There have been lots of ways to track us, by our mobile phone, internet, social media, etc., but now, every time we make a purchase using tap-&-go, we are being tracked.

 

Buy a Maccas or Hungry's - we are being tracked. Buy a paper - we are being tracked.

 

Sure, this has been the case for some time, but we have had the option of using cash. Are we now being forced to use tap-&-go every time? EFTPOS cards to start with, now mobile phone apps.

 

I'm a bit of a luddite when it comes to phone apps. I don't have any on my phone. I don't even have the internet turned on, uses up the battery too quickly. However, now you seem to need an app for everything - the Macccas app to order a burger, the Dominos app to order a pizza, the Woolies app to buy groceries etc., and so on. And we are being tracked every step of the way. 

 

Has the genie been irrevokably released from the bottle? 

 

Westpac and the NAB have said they are not planning this  -  yet. CBA has not stated its position. How many will close their ANZ accounts?

 

Oh! And don't forget all the processing charges added to our purchases, filling the coffers of the banks.

[Jerry_Atrick]

This is a restriction of freedom and should be resisted. I would urge everyone to close their ANZ accounts and use someone else.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Jerry_Atrick

[old man emu]

I was in Coles yesterday to redeem my cash-for-cans voucher. An aged woman was trying to pay for her groceries with what must have been a brand new card. She had already gone back to the bank to confirm there were available funds, but when she returned her card wasn't being accepted. She was obviously struggling with the technology as she did not know her new PIN. The shop assistant who was helping her realised that the card probably hadn't been activated, so off the Old Dear went to the bank again. And she didn't look like a woman who could break the Women's 100 metre Sprint record. Who knows what will happen next week when she tries to use the card and can't remember her PIN. I bet noone at the bank suggested that she change her PIN to something she can always remember (I use my birthday day and month.)

[willedoo]

A lot of branches are closing as well. Suncorp has closed most branches in my area, and the only one left is buried deep inside a major shopping centre. To access the bank is a marathon for anyone with a wheelie walker or hobbling with a walking stick. I can see the day coming where internet banking and cashless transactions are the only option.

[old man emu]

The other day I was counting the contents of my "shrapnel" tin to see how much was in it. Back in the pre-COVID days it didn't take long to rack up about $60.00 after emptying my fob pocket after a shopping trip. Two years of more later, the tin only has about $25.00 in it because all my transactions are via the card. I arc up at using the card for purchases under $5, but where do you get cash, unless it's a cash out at a supermarket (or Bunnings).

 

As I finished counting the shrapnel I remembered how grandparents used to have a "penny jar" to hold small denomination coins to give to the grandkids to buy sweets of an ice cream. What's the use nowadays? The kids are stopping off at Maccas on the way home and buying their own. When was the last time you saw a lolly shop or milk bar in a suburban shopping strip? Last Christmas, in lieu of a physical present, I sent my son money to give the grand kids. I made the stipulation that the money not be given as one banknote, but broken into various denomination notes since my grand kids have no concept of using notes and coins. 

[facthunter]

The advice from my kids was Short of money?? Just go  to the Bank and they will Give you some. I said "That's the easy bit. Paying it off is the hard bit".  Debt and interest works like Cancer. Eats you away. . Inflation steals the value of your money and you get taxed on an imaginary value increase. Nev

[octave]

I have not used cash for sometime now.  For me cash is just too clunky and inconvenient.    Standing in line at an ATM or inside the bank is just not the way I want to spend my time.  Apart from this I think about retaining my autonomy in older age.  My 90 year old mother lives in her own home interstate and has been assessed as being eligible to go into a home.  With our remote help she is doing alright at the moment. In the past she had a passbook bank account and would get a taxi to the bank to draw out money.  We now have her using a debit card and doing phone banking (internet banking may be a bridge too far).  She did  consider going into a home because it was all getting too much for her.  We have organized her somewhat to be able to administer her bills and banking from home, now trips out are either social or medical.   I do not want to end up in a situation where somebody has to help me pay my bills etc. 

 

There are of course pros and cons cash or digital.   The cost of cash is often over looked.  If you ever see an armoured van on the road, well that is a cost.

 

I worked for many years at a large music teaching studio in Canberra and my wife managed the school for the owner who had another school that he managed.  At the school my wife managed we had about 900 students and 30 something teachers.  The customers were expected to pay before or on the first week for the full term (about $350).  If all of these customers paid in cash there could have been around $35000 per day in the till of a small business in a quiet industrial area at 8PM, a recipe for being robbed.

 

Dealing with my aging mother and helping my father in his last few years has made me consider my own future.  I definitely do not want the reject new ways of doing things and I am up for the challenge of keeping up not only for my own well being but so I do not become a burden on others in the future if possible.

[spacesailor]

The government's intent is firmly to go cashless. 

Only to keep everyone paying their G S T , no more welding a bit of pipe , for a ' carton ' of beer .

The only way to beat those sods , is every one " BARTER " a small job for something .

I saw a T V program were some-one swaps a small item for a better item ! , going up to a car of high value. 

spacesailor

[Old Koreelah]

12 hours ago, old man emu said:

…I made the stipulation that the money not be given as one banknote, but broken into various denomination notes since my grand kids have no concept of using notes and coins. 

Don’t bet on it, OME. I’m still trying to get change of a $10 note I handed to my 5 YO grandie as payment for a “Bluey” figurine she was selling for $2 in her “garage sale”. Little blighter knows the value of a bob and probably still has her first shilling!

[Jerry_Atrick]

7 hours ago, spacesailor said:

no more welding a bit of pipe , for a ' carton ' of beer .

Why  not? Can you not get a carton of beer these days, or have they gone digital as well?

 

My gripe is it removes choice. There are times where nothing but cash will work. Ask the shopkeepr whos internet, EFTPOS, or the bank gateways goes down. If teh store still has those swipey card imprinters, you can get away with it.. except.. you can't swipwe a phone (well, unless you are on Tinder, I guess). And there are people who simply prefer to use cash. So why remove it from them? Also, it is the stock that underpins every electronic transaction - the banks have to legally have it with them. otherwise there would never by a run that causes a crash. and if you think inflation is bad now... well..

 

It also has the propensity to remove Freedom. Remember the welfare card.. OK, for some young druggies I guess (although I am not sold), but for an old aged pensioner - restricting who they can buy from? Really? And what about the opportunity for corruption - er - personal enrichment as some firms get preferential treatment over others as being able to have funds of the pensioners and other welfare recipients having to spend welfare funds with those companies who provide the pollies with a little more comfort, or the offer of employment post their political days.

 

And, these days, you may see a bill from Coles or Woolies for $150 turn up on your credit card statement, but how would you feel if you knew not only was they payment being reported to the goverrnment, but everything you spent it was to? That is what is possible.. Liberty is important. We cry at CCTV with facial recognition, but removing cash has far wider implications. At least give people the choice to have it or not...

 

 

[old man emu]

Paying with coins is legal - up to legislated amounts. You can tender up to $25.20 in coinage. A payment of coins is a legal tender throughout Australia if it is made in Australian coins. According to the Currency Act 1965 (section 16) coins are legal tender for payment of amounts which are limited as follows:

not exceeding 20c if 1c and/or 2c coins are offered (these coins have been withdrawn from circulation, but are still legal tender);

not exceeding $5 if any combination of 5c, 10c, 20c and 50c coins are offered; and

not exceeding 10 times the face value of the coin if $1 or $2 coins are offered.

 

 Australian banknotes and coins do not necessarily have to be used in transactions and refusal to accept payment in legal tender banknotes and coins is not unlawful. It appears that a provider of goods or services is at liberty to set the commercial terms upon which payment will take place before the ‘contract’ for supply of the goods or services is entered into.

 

[octave]

Is anyone actively trying to totally end the use of cash or is it that ease and efficiency are slowly winning over?

 

 

 

   

[red750]

Things are sometimes cheaper with cash, or they used to be. Many merchants add a fee for card transactions, particularly small amount ones, to cover the fees the banks charge. The big Lotto agent at Forest Hill Chase charges 15c extra for a lotto ticket purchase if the amount is under $15.00. I think Aldi charges a fee to use cards, or they used to. Many dropped the charge during the pandemic when it was feared cash could spread the disease and card purchases were preferred. Once again, banks lining their coffers. We are being corralled.

[old man emu]

Aldi still does. Even the kebab shop I frequent charges 2% if you use a card. So I go next door to Coles and get a cash out to pay for lunch.

[red750]

Just now, old man emu said:

Aldi still does. Even the kebab shop I frequent charges 2% if you use a card

I forgot. So does our pizza shop. Still 10 times better than Dominos.

[red750]

Banks are now making some branches "cashless". On Chnnel 9's Today, a woman claimed she could not withdraw money from her ANZ Bank account because it was a "cashless" branch. She transferred her entire balance to another bank where she was able to withdraw it. Karl Stefanovic said it was like a pub with no beer. As the topic title says, thin edge of the wedge.

[facthunter]

I'd vote for a CASHLESS senate.  Nev

[willedoo]

A lot of branches are closing down. I've lost my bank's branches in both of the closest towns. The only option now is about a half hour drive, but it's right in the middle of a large shopping centre. The distance from the carpark to the bank in the shopping centre is a long way; much too far for the wheelie walker.

 

Edit: the wheelie walker can make the distance; it's the person driving it that's the problem.

Edited July 4, 2023 by willedoo

[willedoo]

39 minutes ago, facthunter said:

I'd vote for a CASHLESS senate.  Nev

Gee Nev, where would we be without her Hillary Clinton hair helmet to keep us amused.

[facthunter]

 A screamer without the need for 2 pots. Really scares me when the veins/arteries stick out in her neck.  Nev

[spacesailor]

willedoo 

Most shopping centre's have ' mobility scooter's ' for your use ,

Just have to arrange your booking by phone , so it will not be loaned-out before you get there .

spacesailor

Ps get an ' identity card ' to leave as security,  instead of the driver's licence .

Edited July 4, 2023 by spacesailor

[old man emu]

The last of the Big Four closed its branch in Gilgandra last month. There is a Bendigo Bank branch operating for basic deposits and withdrawals, but if you had some serious financial matters to deal with, you would have to go in to Dubbo. Locally you can't even get you piggy bank contents counted. There are two ATMs in Gilgandra, but the operators charge about $2.50 for a withdrawal.

 

I am beginning to notice more and more retailers are charging a fee to use EFTPOS. 

[Marty_d]

Coles and Woolies still allow you to withdraw cash.  Of course you have to make a purchase but it's not hard to think of something you forgot last time you went shopping.

 

[old man emu]

52 minutes ago, Marty_d said:

Of course you have to make a purchase

I haven't struck that, but most of the time I plan to get a cash-out when I go in to get a little bit of shopping.

[red750]

If you use Woolies self checkout, avoid the Card Only checkouts, and there is a Withdraw Cash button so you don't need to make a purchase. Used it a few times when I need cash.