Thin end of the wedge

[Jerry_Atrick]

1 minute ago, red750 said:

Corner shops and fete stalls accept cash? If there is no cash?

If there is no cash, then a handwritten note that thei fairy has transferred the sum into their card account, and they are free to use it..

 

2 minutes ago, red750 said:

Democratic sausage free - what rock have you been hiding under? 

Admittedly, it has been close to 30 years since I have attended an Aussie election...

 

Here ya go: https://www.screwfix.com/p/sum-up-solo-smart-card-terminal/532JF?kpid=532JF&cm_mmc=Google-_-Datafeed-_-Electrical and Lighting?kpid=KINASEKPID&cm_mmc=Google-_-TOKEN1-_-TOKEN2&srsltid=AfmBOoq1wvGYb12t2BKvtJXRbsx9JT2pr7Yuz2ajM_hMpxcEcmwOofLT3eA

[octave]

Anyone with a phone can take a payment.    I am not arguing for the abolition of cash but I choose not to use it.  I don't look back fondly to the days when registering your car meant a trip to the bank followed by queuing at the motor registry. I value my time too much to waste it.

[willedoo]

16 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

The one scenario I often think about is the homless or beggars.. They are the ones most likely to miss out.

A bit off topic, but I occasionally encounter a bloke in our local shopping centre car park. Every time he has the same old story - he's lost his job and is putting the bite on people for money for groceries. Same story month after month. The first time I thought he might be a druggie or an alcoholic, but after a subsequent encounter I formed the opinion he was neither, just a professional bum who prefers it to working at a job. I've never been dumb enough to give him any money. If you tell him about the free groceries donation bin outside Coles just 50 metres from the patch he works, he thanks you for telling him. Naturally he doesn't go over there; he heads straight to the next potential sucker he spots in the car park to put the bite on them. It's a steady income he's after, not food. Good luck to him.

[red750]

Willie's post reminds me of the guys at the traffic lights washing windscreens while you are stopped. This might put an end to them. Many would say Good Riddance. Or the tin rattlers for the Children's Hospital Appeal on Good Friday.

 

Octave, I know you are full bottle on all the technology, but I know a guy, an ex bank accountant, over 80, who cannot open or send a text on his phone. If there's a voicemail on his phone, he has to get someone to retrieve it for him. Doesn't know how to turn on a computer, and doesn't want to. When the Men's Shed sends out an email, they send it to his wife to pass on. He's probably not Robinson Crusoe.

[pmccarthy]

As a young bloke I only had a cheque account. Went on holiday within NSW without enough cash. Couldn’t cash a cheque as you had to prearrange ID. I was only saved because a bank teller knew my father and pretended to ID me.

[octave]

7 hours ago, red750 said:

Octave, I know you are full bottle on all the technology, but I know a guy, an ex bank accountant, over 80, who cannot open or send a text on his phone. If there's a voicemail on his phone, he has to get someone to retrieve it for him. Doesn't know how to turn on a computer, and doesn't want to. When the Men's Shed sends out an email, they send it to his wife to pass on. He's probably not Robinson Crusoe.

I don't know about "full bottle" (are you saying I drink too much?) but seriously - I am not suggesting that we should shred all the money and knock old ladies' purses out of their hands etc.   I am not sure if you need to be particularly tech-savvy to operate a card account.   As time goes on there will be fewer people who use cash this is the trajectory.  I am questioning to what degree we should artificially slow down this change.  I have no problem with ensuring certain levels of cash supply or services.   I do however think we should not be forcing business owners to deal in cash if they do not wish to. The proposed legislation I linked to suggested that a business would be compelled to take cash up to  $10000, which to me is crazy.    We should not compel the taxi driver working at night to carry around excessive cash. In times gone by taxi drivers being bashed and robbed was a common occurrence. 

 

This morning we am off to our favourite cafe.  We have become quite friendly with the owner and even gone out socially.  This business is not so much a cafe but more of a hole-in-the-wall type business.   This business is still in its first year.  The owner is passionate about what he does and this place is becoming quite busy at times.    He is usually there by himself.  When you order he quickly types it into a screen on his side of the counter and then immediately goes back to making coffee.   On the customer side of the counter is another screen where your order appears and you can tap your card or phone or whatever.   In a one-person operation like this, there simply is not time to stand waiting while someone rummages through their wallet or purse.  My point is that he should not be compelled to take cash if it does not fit in with his business model. I am actually not sure if he does take cash but I have never seen anyone offer cash.

 

I would suggest that most people of any age are able to operate a bank account.  With age people do lose ability though.  My mother is in care and I now operate her bank accounts for her (anyone need a loan?)  Although her ability to operate her bank accounts has deteriorated this also applies to using cash.

 

As for me being "full bottle" on technology, I would say not especially.  Something I think is crucial as I age is to not get stuck in a bygone era because this leads eventually to helplessness. If I don't understand how to do something I  find out how to do it.  It is all too easy to give up. Although my 92-year-old mother is not particularly tech-savvy I am pretty proud of the way she still is able to use her laptop (with a bit of tech support over the phone from us which can be arduous sometimes).  Every Sunday night she will Facetime with her friend in England. They were nurse together 70 years ago. It is important not to give up on learning new things whilst you have the capacity to do so.

 

I am fine with the government ensuring a certain level of cash facilities for those who are unable to use cash or for whatever reason don't wish use cash but as this number dwindles I guess we need to be aware of the costs and benefits of subsidising these services.

[red750]

https://au.yahoo.com/finance/news/insidious-danger-lurking-behind-common-cashless-solution-avoid-at-all-costs-200008853.html

[onetrack]

And the bottom line is, for all this electronic payment stuff - the ordure hits the rotating blades of the cooling device, big time - when the power goes out!!

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-19/kalgoorlie-locals-frustrated-by-widespread-blackouts-in-heatwave/103367380

[old man emu]

Talking about cash. Today I was going through my junk drawer and found two uncirculated $10 notes in a collector's folder. One of the notes wa from the first batch of polymer note and the other from the last batch of paper notes. I wonder what they are worth to a numismatist. I also found a $1 note in uncirculated condition.

[octave]

Unless people hold large amounts of cash they will always be reliant on the power and phone network. People who say they only use cash get their cash from the bank system or perhaps they draw cash out when making a debit card transaction.

 

The person using cash drows it out through the digital network, puts it in thier wallet or purse then hands it over to the shopkeeper. I cut out thee middle part of that chain and don't put it in my wallet but send it straight to the shopkeeper.

 

By the way I ave been in a supermarket when the power goes out and they immediately closed the store  

[onetrack]

The first polymer $10 notes are worth good money now, depending on serial number and signature.

 

https://www.therightnote.com.au/product-category/decimal-polymer/10-dollars-decimal-polymer/

[old man emu]

 

[octave]

2 hours ago, red750 said:

https://au.yahoo.com/finance/news/insidious-danger-lurking-behind-common-cashless-solution-avoid-at-all-costs-200008853.html

I find this article to be alarmist.   Whilst the owner may pay for the QR order at the table system and these costs are ultimately paid for by the customer I have don't ever recall  a price differential related to my choice to order in this way. I am sure that you can find the odd place that does add a surcharge but so far I have not struck this.

 

The article talks about patrons having to hand out private information.   The payment is made by a third party so certainly this is safer than the good old days of handing over your credit card to wait staff who in the past could "skim it"    You do hand over your email address. I don't see this as a problem, my Email address is out there anyway and so what if I get the promotional email (which I could block if I wanted to)  The article does not detail what data can be sold.

 

The article says "These QR codes lead you to online menus where you have to input details like your name, address and email to order your food or drink."   I regularly dine out and have never ever been asked my home address.  This claim seems unlikely.  If I ever were to be asked my home address I would decline to do so and I don't think this would invalidate the order.

 

"and then some even ask for a tip at the end of the process even though you haven't received your order."

 

Well, not really, there usually will be three boxes on the payment screen for tips, something like 0% 5% 10% you can tip if you want or not. It is much more private and comfortable than being face to face with a wait staff person observing whether you tipping or not.

 

What I like about ordering at the table is that you do have the choice (at least at places I have dined). Being an older couple I usually find the wait staff will make the point that you don't have to order that way. I find myself feeling a little bit resentful of  this because I think assumptions are made because I have grey hair. I am still intellectually with it.

 

I am bad for going out without my glasses and having to get my wife to read out the menu, With an online menu I can easily make the text bigger.

 

There is often that awkwardness in a cafe about whether they come to the table to take the order or if you have to go to the counter.   If the wait staff walk past a couple of times, do they think I have already had my order taken or are they very busy?

 

When it comes time to leave I don't have to work out where you pay and possibly wait until someone is free.

 

When dining with friends it avoids that awkward bill-splitting fiasco

 

The article then gets all whiney about parking payment methods.  I have just returned home from town (Geelong) and I have my parking app open in front of me. I parked for 59 minutes and 1 second. The total cost was $3.95 of which 41 cents was a service charge. The card the money comes from is also free because I pay it off well within the interest-free period. 

 

 

 

There are 3 benefits of using this app. The first is it is extremely quick, no fiddling with coins or getting out a credit card.   2 You only pay for the parking you actually use. Instead of saying "I will probably need an hour but I better get extra just in case" you get the extra and cancel it when you return to your car. You only pay for what you use. 3 If you are away from your car and you plans change and you need longer you can just add time remotely.

Before I adopted this app my parking cost for my Monday morning town trip was between 6 and 7 dollars usually because I had to allow extra in case I was delayed getting back to the car.   There is no more jogging back to the car because the parking is about to run out.

 

I am happy for people to use whatever means of payment they want, I make no judgement and anyway, it is really none of my business. Personally I am happy to learn how to use new methods I am capable assessing their pros and cons.

[spacesailor]

I tried to teach my grandies about savings .

I gave $50 into the " St George " school saving account , for each .

Only to lose it all when they turned a certain age ,

And didn't transfer the $hundreds to a standard account.

spacesailor

[red750]

An interesting quote from a post in reply to an article on the Manly Post Office going cashless:

 

"As the oldies die off the adult infants who can't even walk without their phones telling them which foot to put forward next will realise that they are under total control. Too late and it will serve them right. "

[spacesailor]

Please don't kill us off just yet .

Without being able to spend our ' pension ' cash , we will probably die wealthy by starvation. 

spacesailor

[old man emu]

I had to get a "cash out" at the supermarket to get some $2 coins to pay for smoko at the Mens' Shed.

 

So tell me. Assuming that you pay most of your bills electronically, and use a card for the fortnightly grocery shop, how much do you reckon is a reasonable amount of cash to be carrying between pension days? Give me a figure on a per person basis if you have an "other half".

[gareth lacey]

4 minutes ago, old man emu said:

I had to get a "cash out" at the supermarket to get some $2 coins to pay for smoko at the Mens' Shed.

 

So tell me. Assuming that you pay most of your bills electronically, and use a card for the fortnightly grocery shop, how much do you reckon is a reasonable amount of cash to be carrying between pension days? Give me a figure on a per person basis if you have an "other half".

I always carry about 60$ and keep a 20 in the car

[nomadpete]

Throught my life I have seldom carried much cash. Even in the dark ages when I was paid my wage by an envelope of real money. Admittedly when out west for a project, I  started out with about a hundred for expenses. But to this day, I carry a fiver in my wallet, and in the glove box there is six or eight dollars in coins, to pay for our local farmgate eggs, and mens shed tea donation.

[red750]

Much and all as I think cash should be retained, I rarely carry any notes, just a few coins. Particularly a 10c to unlock those confounded chain locks on shopping trolleys. I was told a $1 coin was required, but I have found that 10c does work. Groceries, petrol, lotto,  and anything else I buy are paid for by EFTPOS card. I don't buy much online, but when I do I use my credit card. Bills are paid by direct debit or Bpay.

[willedoo]

I was at an old mate's 80th. recently at his nursing home (he has Parkinson's). He belongs to one of those born again churches and I think I was the only non church friend there. One of them was talking about the need to use cash and how cards are the mark of the beast referred to in the bible. I can remember working for some born again people back in the early 1990's and they were banging on back then about debt and credit cards carrying the mark of the beast.

[spacesailor]

Never use a card outside of the one & only Aldi

Supermarket .

When first arrived in Australia I rang the Parramatta 

" Woolworth " , to check if I could pay with Thomas Cooks travelltr's cheque .   The answer was " yes " .

Two full trolley's later the cheque-out girl declined our money .

so left those two full trolleys of groceries at the counter .

Then went elsewhere. 

( possibly Franklin's (black&gold ? ) .

spacesailor

 

Edited September 25 by spacesailor
A little more

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, willedoo said:

they were banging on back then about debt and credit cards carrying the mark of the beast.

It's called the bank's logo.

[Marty_d]

2 hours ago, willedoo said:

I was at an old mate's 80th. recently at his nursing home (he has Parkinson's). He belongs to one of those born again churches and I think I was the only non church friend there. One of them was talking about the need to use cash and how cards are the mark of the beast referred to in the bible. I can remember working for some born again people back in the early 1990's and they were banging on back then about debt and credit cards carrying the mark of the beast.

You were the only heathen in a room of bible thumpers?  Brave man.

[onetrack]

I carry anywhere between $100 and $300 on cash on me at all times. It's very handy for the times you spot a bargain item you need, for sale, and you want to grab it before someone else does.

It's also useful for when the power goes out. Waving cash also gets you better pricing on many retail things.

 

A mate says he always carries about $200 in cash, and his adult children are always putting the bite on him for some cash for some need of theirs, and they never have any cash on them.

 

Edited September 25 by onetrack