Thin end of the wedge

[nomadpete]

2 hours ago, red750 said:

Told you it was coming.

 

800 km to get some cash.

That doesn't  surprise me.

But I am surprised that you found a way to use it (that wouldn't take any other method of payment)

Edited February 14 by nomadpete
spelchucked

[red750]

What about the situation in Victoria.Thousands without power, possibly for weeks. No EFTPOS,no internet. The concept of no cash. Do we all just sit on our hands? Cash is legal tender annd must be available. We seem to be too damned smart for our own good.

[octave]

Just now, red750 said:

What about the situation in Victoria.Thousands without power, possibly for weeks. No EFTPOS,no internet. The concept of no cash. Do we all just sit on our hands? Cash is legal tender annd must be available. We seem to be too damned smart for our own good.

The problem is that drawing out cash is also dependent on a power-dependant network. When you draw out money from a supermarket or post office they don't just hand you a wad of cash and write it down in a ledger.  Power being out of course does not necessarily stop the transfer of the data required to do business. If I buy a cheeky glass of wine on an airliner it does not require grid power. If I buy something at a country market it does not require power, even the tofu vegan crowd has a wireless EFTPOS device.

 

Having read the article I have a few questions.

 

Should a private company be compelled to act as a defacto bank by allowing people to take cash if it is economically disadvantageous? 

 

"Australia Post, for instance, recently revealed it was spending about $4,000 a week to fly cash to Coober Pedy in South Australia to make sure residents had access to cash."

 

This appears to be incredibly inefficient. My question Red is who should pay for this?  I am happy for people to use inefficient cash as long as they are willing to pay the associated costs.  I am happy to pay a tiny surcharge to use digital methods. 

 

As for horror stories of people traveling 800km to get cash, who would do that?   There are easier ways to handle money. 

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

I'm all for retaining CASH.  NOT Michaelia). The BANKS have far too much hold on us already..  The POWER is there Just not all the transmission lines.. A lot is being restored  but some parts will be difficult, like towers in bushland and high voltage transmission lines. Spare a thought for those who have lost all in fires. and a fire truck that had a flame over. Nev

[facthunter]

 This is a bit like boiling a frog slowly. It wasn't that long ago that the boss must pay you in cash then it went to cheques guaranteed to be cashable locally.. IF my card is compromised which seems to happen pretty often there's about a week before the new one is issued and cash can get you through that sort of thing. I consider it a "Breach of Faith" to withdraw the option.. I don't see that a bank would have to use a Plane to take the cash to  Coober Pedy as the strip is  not much and they want to mine it in fact..  so that's the importance the locals put on planes .. Call me old fashioned but there's plenty like me. Minorities shouldn't have to  be swept along with the flow just because they are different and get outvoted. There has to be an acceptance of implied obligations.  Nev

[octave]

I am happy for people to use cash if they want to however I don't think a business should be compelled to accept cash or that matter a card if they don't want to.   I am happy to pay a surcharge to use digital means as long as people who use cash pay the costs associated with that. 

17 minutes ago, facthunter said:

I don't see that a bank would have to use a Plane to take the cash to  Coober Pedy

It was the post office.  Any business that deals in cash must ensure that they have sufficient cash on hand and in reasonable denominations. Cash has to come from somewhere and there are costs associated with this.

[red750]

I know you'll hate this, but cash is legal tender. Banks are in business to serve their customers. They rake in billions in profit, surely they can meet their obligations. CommBank just announced a $4 bill + H/Y profit after tax.

[facthunter]

Plenty of traffic goes up the road every day. You can get some of the best seafood around in some of those places and it weighs more than money and goes off..  You can buy fuel and car parts there too. Money is lighter, though the gold bars I took out oof Tennant Creek were heavy. enough.  Nev

[octave]

1 minute ago, red750 said:

I know you'll hate this, but cash is legal tender. Bankns are in business to serve their customers. They rake in billions in profit, surely they can meet their obligations. CommBank just announced a $4 bill + H/Y profit after tax.

 

Yes I am sure banks make plenty of money and could if they wanted to subsidize marginal branches.  At some stage though we will have situations where an armored van will deliver cash for the few who still want it.   The post office mentioned in the story you linked to that pays $4000 a week to have cash on hand, who should pay for that?  Should the Post office pass that on to all customers? 

 

The fact is that increasingly fewer people want to use cash.   I have absolutely no interest in trying to convince anyone to stop using cash. i also believe you should not compel a business to accept cash if it does not work for them. An example I have offered up before in this thread is the music studio I worked in in Canberra. My wife managed the business for the owner. We would get people to pay for the whole term on the first lesson. Back then this was $350.  The hours of operation were between 3PM and 8PM. The area was industrial and after 5PM deserted except for music school students.   We used to insist on digital payment over the phone or in person. It would have been monumentally stupid to have someone sitting on the desk with several thousand in the till in this area.   I think the business was/is both legally and ethically entitled to only accept digital forms of payment even if only for the sake of the safety of the staff.  

 

Again I don't really care how people operate their finances.   

 

[red750]

I don't often use cash, mostly card, EFTPOS, EFT, direct debit, bPay, etc. But I think for items less than, say $5, cash is the go. I go without rather than hit the card for such small purchases, like a $2 KFC chicken slider, or $3 cheeseburger.  Yes there's those who say it's better for me, but occasionally I like a bit of  treat when I'm out. After all, they do call them "loose change menu items".

[octave]

1 minute ago, red750 said:

But I think for items less than, say $5, cash is the go.

 

I am in no way having a go at what others do but at my local coffee shop I use my card even just for one coffee. It does not cost anything extra, it is helpful to them in terms of not having to maintain a cash float and at the end of the week I can check how much I have spent, It works well for me.

[spacesailor]

In Sydney, 

there's a 'surcharge ' on every  " credit " transaction " in supermarkets.

Even the supermarkets are sneaking it onto , your savings account,  ( debit ) .

spacesailor

[octave]

Woolworths IGA and Coles don't have a surcharge but Aldi does (0.5%)

 

https://www.finder.com.au/how-to-avoid-bank-fees-at-the-supermarket

 

Edited February 14 by octave

[spacesailor]

Woollies slapt a charge on my daughters credit card.

spacesailor

Edited February 14 by spacesailor
It changed my word

[onetrack]

We're getting some renovation work done in a couple of months, and the company is charging 1.5% extra if we pay by CC. Cash is king for me, it nearly always gets me a discount.

[red750]

What ticks me off is the lotto agency. They're raking it in and still slugging you. Some on every transaction, some below $15.00. The Lotto office should cover it. 

[octave]

Whilst this can be true for some things it is not true for the majority of what I spend.  I have paid cash for an aircon install but it has to be understood that they are no doubt giving you a fraction of what they are saving in creative accounting with regards to paying tax.

 

Day to day most of us are not paying for items like this.  I have just been looking through my credit card statement and I can't see anything in this category.  Bunnings are not going to give me a discount, the local cafe won't or the supermarket.    If I do pay the occasional surcharge from time to time it is no big deal. I pay down my credit card every Friday and review what I have spent so I pay zero interest. My credit card  charges a $50 annual fee but I earn points which I use exclusively for Bunnings vouchers ($200 per year) 

 

Again I really don't care what others do, I do what I do because for me it is cheaper and more convenient and aids with accounting.

 

[willedoo]

I've just got the base model credit card that has no interest free period. As a trade off, the annual fees are lower and the rate on purchases is only 12%. Cash advances are 22%. The next card up is a higher annual fee, but has an interest free period of 50 (or is it 55?) days. If you don't pay it down in that time, you cop the 22% interest rate. I think I'm stuck with the card I've got as they don't like giving new cards to pensioners despite the fact you have a guaranteed income.

[onetrack]

I just kept looking around for cheaper and cheaper credit cards and cancelling the high interest ones, and moving over to lower interest ones - and especially ones backed by credit unions, where fees and charges are much lower than the big banks. 

I've got 2 cards at 8.99%, one with Defence Bank, and one with CFCU (which has now become a Bank, anyway). Both have 55 days interest free and low annual charges.

Defence Bank was formed out of the Defence Force Credit Union, and they now take anyone as a customer, not just military people and veterans.

CFCU was formed out of the Sydney Water Board Officers Credit Union Co-Op in 1959 and then went on to absorb several other NSW-based Credit Unions. The best part is that these organisations are member-owned, so no greedy shareholders looking for big rewards.

 

https://communityfirst.com.au/personal/banking/credit-cards

 

https://www.defencebank.com.au/about-us/

 

Regardless, I still use and keep on hand, a reasonable amount of cash, and I don't see that changing in the near future. And even the Reserve Bank has admitted they need to keep cash available for those sections of the community that still want to use it, and for those who have ever-decreasing local banking levels, or local cash-handling facilities available.

 

[facthunter]

It's obvious that saying "NO Cash kept on premisses." is a safety advantage and for taxi's etc.  On the other hand scamming has reached an intolerable level.  I've also had notes fall out of a coat pocket. I just hope whoever found it put it  to good use. Nev

[old man emu]

Cash, in the form of coins and notes, is owned by the Nation's Government (ie, the people). "Plastic" is owned by international corporations, and relies on money borrowed by the corporations and lent to the card holder.

 

The corporation must cover the overheads of its business, and those overheads include accounting for the movement of the credit, the maintenance of the principle and the payment of interest. Those things add to the cost of the consumer's purchase. Cash, while encompassing some costs in its manufacture and distribution, does not have those cost which are hidden from the consumer. Therefore, for purchases required for basic day-to-day living, using cash is the least expensive way to complete a transaction, providing that the warehouses of cash don't charge fees for using the warehousing.

[red750]

But the bloody banks are always on about "Go digital, it's cheaper and more efficient." Then they charge you a fee to save them money while they make multi billion dollar profits. And if you don't use their "cheaper" fee charged system, they are considering charging a surcharge to use the countries legal tender. Screwed whichever way you go. And my wife, son and I all worked for banks - years ago.

[octave]

Just to reiterate I am not trying to convince anyone to adopt any particular method of payment.

 

For me, operating cash is just too onerous.  Having retired a couple of years ago we are living on our super.  This super is not in the local bank but an amount goes into our bank account monthly.  There has been much talk on this forum about greedy profit-driven banks.   My bank is owned by its customers. I have never paid any fee with this bank. The downside (for some) is that it does not have branches everywhere.  I could go down and queue up at the post office but I have better things to do with my time. 

 

This morning we got our weekly delivery of fruit, veggies, and fish. We started getting these deliveries during the early stages of COVID-19 and liked it so much that we have kept it up.   We pay for this digitally.  I do not imagine they would want to set the driver up to take cash and to carry enough change for every transaction. Because this is a regular arrangement delivery is free. 

 

When I do go to a supermarket I certainly do not want to have to go to a bank.  

 

When we buy petrol we usually use an app which means we don't even have to go to the service station. We started doing this during the worst of covid. 

 

We fly to Adelaide 4 times a year. We always book online after searching for the cheapest and most convenient flight.  For our next trip, we thought we would do something different and go by train. This was organized and paid for online. I suppose I could have driven to the nearest station and handed over the cash.

 

There are items that we want to examine in person but looking at most of my recent purchases we are happy to read and watch online reviews and then use the net to find the best deal. My credit card costs me $50 a year but this is offset by $200 rewards. We have not paid a cent in interest in the last 5 years. Sometimes there is a surcharge but it is miniscule and certainly cheaper than driving to the bank every week. 

 

I cant really see that my life would be better if I drew out money every week.

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

RED.. We will try to not hold that against you. A lot of people have "skeletons in the cupboard" (Another metaphor for OME).   Nev

Edited February 15 by facthunter

[octave]

8 minutes ago, red750 said:

Then they charge you a fee to save them money while they make multi billion dollar profits.

 

Perhaps you should change banks. This is where I bank  https://www.bankaust.com.au/about-us  The thing is people like to complain but seldom take control.  Owned by the customers who by having an account are shareholders and get to vote on the bank's direction. No executive bonuses.

Edited February 15 by octave