old man emu Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 On Saturday, I found out how fast my car can go down Conrod Straight at Mount Panorama, Bathurst - 60 Kph. How do I know? Because the Highway Patrolman told me when he said that I was doing 82 in a 60 KpH zone. I wasn't even trying to go fast. I was just pulling back in after overtaking a slower car. I'm trying to calm my anger by telling myself to remember all the times I have been hooking in and not been pinged, like on Friday night when I was going 100 in an 80. But on Friday night I knew full well that I was in an 80 zone. But the signposting on Mount Panorama is quite sparse. If you know Conrod Straight, you will know that there is a slight crest about 1/3 the way down from its beginning. That's where two HWP cars were sitting. I've done my fair share of stationary radar on the Hume and Federal Highways around Goulburn, but I've never gone out with the intention of shooting sitting ducks. If the Bathurst City Council Road Safety Committee wants to improve the safety record of that roadway, then a few hundred dollars spent in posting more speed zone signs, and maybe one big one to inform people that normal road laws apply to the length of the circuit would alleviate the need for police resources to be applied there. And these resources could then be applied to the heavily trafficked highways and byways the traverse the region. The incident has done its job to remove one speed hoon from the district's roads. I'll never travel the Great Western Highway west of the Mudgee turn-off again. The towns and villages along the Mudgee road can be assured of my tourist dollars. Bad Luck, Bathurst, Orange, Molong or Wellington! OME
Guest Deskpilot1 Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 Feel for you OME. Had a similar event the first time I visited Victoria. Over taking a slow and weaving drunk on a 2 km straight. Lady cop sitting at the other end with nothing better to do. The drunk guy didn't pass us as she stopped me so he got away with it.
Nobody Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 Mount Panorama is a well known location for the police to issue speeding fines. If you have an otherwise clean driving record have a read here: http://www.sdro.nsw.gov.au/lib/docs/misc/br_001.pdf If you don't have any other offences for a period of time (5 or 10 years i cant remember) you just ring the SDRO call center and they will usually downgrade the fine to a caution and no points provided it wasnt in a school zone or in some other way very dangerous.
Kyle Communications Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 Thats why I did 2 laps around the circuit at the signed speed first to see if there were any policeman's ball ticket collectors about.....then gave it the noise :) Well as much as you can in a huge Iveco diesel..which wasnt much...sigh. Just wish I was in the HSV R8 that I had at the time Mark
Litespeed Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 Welcome to NSW the Penal state. It is just more of the bushrangers collecting money and punishing the masses. I do remember a fast and furious lap or more in my old Alfa years ago- what a blast. But would have been jailed for it these days. It is like the old Pacific Hwy, a 100kph road demoted to 60kph as it is now used mainly by motorbikes. The new limit makes big fines for the state coffers and punishes what was once safe and legal. Meanwhile on the motorway next door.......... So what was once 105 in 100 zone was cool it is now instant loss of licence and massive fine for 45kmh over. Just love been treated like a criminal.
Gnarly Gnu Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 Just fly instead, never seen anyone checking speeds...
turboplanner Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 Thats why I did 2 laps around the circuit at the signed speed first to see if there were any policeman's ball ticket collectors about.....then gave it the noise :) Well as much as you can in a huge Iveco diesel..which wasnt much...sigh. Just wish I was in the HSV R8 that I had at the time Mark I drove an ACCO Refrigerated Meat Van around it once that drop at the top just about sent the ACCO into truck heaven. Two cops got me coming out of Orange, one who sneaked inside my mirrors in the town, and another who sat back where I could see him. He turned off, I picked up speed, and instantly, out came the other one.
old man emu Posted July 27, 2015 Author Posted July 27, 2015 Unfortunately, I've been photographed a couple of times in the past three years and caught not wearing my spectacles, so a plea for leniency is not on. I suppose what gets up my nose is that every time I've only been over by less than 15 KpH. I'm being hung for a lamb! OME
Litespeed Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 Don't forget the mongrels changed the rules so it is now in 10kmh increments, not 15kmh. So 11kmh over is now a under 20kmh over fine and points. From the same bunch that promised if elected they would get rid of cameras as they were just raising revenue. So they removed a few and then added over 100. Add to the fact getting caught unlicensed because of a parking fine or anything else owed to NSW corruption inc. and the fines are far exceeding a drink driving charge. Why? All about safety naturally- anyone who forgot to vote or pay a parking fine is obviously a menace to society. Drink drivers- nah just misunderstood the rules that's all. Welcome to the convict state.
Guest ozzie Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 I seem to recall the whole circuit is 60kph drove around it a couple years ago. How for all the luck have not been booked since 1986. Came real close last year when i flashed a warning to an oncoming car about radar on his side of Botany Rd. Hundred yards further on i realized it was a set up when waved over. Said reason he wasn't booking me was that fact i had a good record. As i took my license back and started to drive away i said not because the word of the day is "entrapment". When i drove back down the road ten minutes later they and the radar had gone.
cooperplace Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 On Saturday, I found out how fast my car can go down Conrod Straight at Mount Panorama, Bathurst - 60 Kph. How do I know? Because the Highway Patrolman told me when he said that I was doing 82 in a 60 KpH zone. I wasn't even trying to go fast. I was just pulling back in after overtaking a slower car. I'm trying to calm my anger by telling myself to remember all the times I have been hooking in and not been pinged, like on Friday night when I was going 100 in an 80. But on Friday night I knew full well that I was in an 80 zone. But the signposting on Mount Panorama is quite sparse. If you know Conrod Straight, you will know that there is a slight crest about 1/3 the way down from its beginning. That's where two HWP cars were sitting. I've done my fair share of stationary radar on the Hume and Federal Highways around Goulburn, but I've never gone out with the intention of shooting sitting ducks. If the Bathurst City Council Road Safety Committee wants to improve the safety record of that roadway, then a few hundred dollars spent in posting more speed zone signs, and maybe one big one to inform people that normal road laws apply to the length of the circuit would alleviate the need for police resources to be applied there. And these resources could then be applied to the heavily trafficked highways and byways the traverse the region. The incident has done its job to remove one speed hoon from the district's roads. I'll never travel the Great Western Highway west of the Mudgee turn-off again. The towns and villages along the Mudgee road can be assured of my tourist dollars. Bad Luck, Bathurst, Orange, Molong or Wellington! OME I remember when Warren Willing was clocked at 299kph on a, I think, OW31, a version of a TZ750, in the rain, on Conrd Straight. And he later said that he was struggling to control the wheelspin. I think that was 1978.
Geoff13 Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 It never ceases to amaze me. The best way to not get booked is to not speed. If you persist in speeding then take the penalty when you get caught without looking for someone else to blame. One of the problems with todays society is the way everyone needs to blame someone else for their own failings. Don't speed and you won't add to any government coffers. If you choose to speed then take the kick in the ar** when it comes. The speed limit on the circuit is to stop boy racers from trying to kill themselves and the rest of the public (a bit like the rules we fly by). You can do 300 klms down Conrod if you want just spend a few years proving you are good enough to do it first and get picked by one of the major teams to drive one of their cars.
Gnarly Gnu Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 It never ceases to amaze me. The best way to not get booked is to not speed. Haha, I was waiting for one of these to surface.
fly_tornado Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 the speed limit doesn't stop people speeding, it just increases the revenues the state collects from road users.
facthunter Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 IF the low speed was really a crucial factor in safety they would have more indications of what the limit is so there is no confusion. There should be a coded line on the edge of the road, or at least something every Km or so. They book you for being "just" over so you have to concentrate on the speed indicated all the time, rather than the loopies around you. Revenue raiser or safety focussed? Nev
frank marriott Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 Without referring to a specific speed limit or road location, speed makes the difference from a 'fender bender' and an injury/fatal accident.
Litespeed Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 Geoff, That just don't speed line, does not cut it. What could be a fair way to improve safety is manifestly used for revenue raising and has little bearing on road safety. We have lower limits on the open road in many places than 30 years ago. Cars are far safer but they treat us all as morons and cash cows. We spend to much time worrying about 5 different speed zones on a 3 km stretch of road-(none of which make apparent sense) than what is going on outside the car. This causes accidents and lots of them, sticking to a arbitrary speed number does not make you safe. Driving properly for the conditions does- that includes eyes on the road not staring at the speedo. Cars are driven by VFR not IFR but the rules push us to IFR. Speed has never killed anyone, it is excessive speed for the conditions. Some research has even showed artificially low speed limits do actually kill. Drivers get distracted easily, bored,tired and make fatal mistakes. They get lulled into a false sense of safety- hey I am at the limit so must be safe. OR they get frustrated and overtake dangerously and bang. If we drive to the conditions of the road,traffic,the car and our ability- we are focused on the job-driving safely. To say just follow the rules, is a very simplistic view for a complex issue.
facthunter Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 A month or so ago I drove from Newcastle to Melbourne. Not in a hurry. but drove as if I couldn't afford to lose one point on my licence. I was freaked out before Albury, checking speed limits and making sure I didn't go one Km over or have a red light on any part of any intersection. I have an exemplary accident record and one 4 km over in over 25 years. I'm really focussed on road safety, and some of this DETRACTS from it. I'm not alone in this . Most racing drivers make the same point. Being aware of the road conditions and other traffic. Idiots passing with oncoming traffic is on the increase. What are they on? 40 over in a school zone Sure DANGEROUS. 3 kms in a 100 zone with no other traffic within miles 180 dollars and one point and you are obviously trying to do the right thing....Nev
old man emu Posted July 28, 2015 Author Posted July 28, 2015 How's this for irony? Today I was driving on the Princes Highway at Kogarah, in Sydney. The speed limit is 70KpH, through a residential area with heavy traffic and cross intersections. How do the Road Safety experts justify the 60KpH speed limit on a road through a rural area (Conrod Straight) and a 70KpH limit on the Princes Highway?[ATTACH]47675._xfImport[/ATTACH] OME, Oh My.
jetjr Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 Its 60kmh because the rural road which is Bathurst racetrack is normally a two way road, including entrances to houses and properties. Some blind corners at the top too Pretty regularly there someone using both lanes running a hot lap like they see on TV. For some reason there always seems to be someone trying a race lap backwards
turboplanner Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 How's this for irony? Today I was driving on the Princes Highway at Kogarah, in Sydney. The speed limit is 70KpH, through a residential area with heavy traffic and cross intersections. How do the Road Safety experts justify the 60KpH speed limit on a road through a rural area (Conrod Straight) and a 70KpH limit on the Princes Highway? These are some of the issues the last government of Victoria started to grapple with. Thousands of people complained about multiple speed limits on short stretches of the same road, and in some cases, this is where cameras were sited. Vicroads solved this by phasing out the 70 and 90 limits, and guess what, these sections dropped 10 km/hr to 60 and 80. What the Napthine government were starting to do was look at examples like the ones you are giving and lift the speed limits including the current 110 open freeway limit to 130. The main incentive for statutory speed limits relates to the high cost, and nuisance factor, for police to gather bulletproof evidence and prosecute offenders who were driving unsafely. Once the law was based on fixed speed limits, and the could use technology to measure or photograph the offence, then proof became automatic, and the whole circus moved to where we are today when non-police do the entrapment. There certainly needs to be a safe speed for a particular section of road, traffic density and weather, and traffic needs to be grouped closely around this speed to avoid bad judgements and frustration, and in most cases, when traffic is measured the section of road tends to produce a mean speed set by the motorists good judgement. However, what is glaringly obvious is that when traffic density intermittently increases or decreases or when the weather is bad, the speed limit is inappropriate. Just recently a UK writer carried out a study on areas of heavy pedestrian density, such as shopping strips, where the speed limit has been reduced in recent years (Australian regulators go to these conferences and pick up these ideas, and have reduced the limits in these areas from 60 to 50 t0 40) He found that in a study of fatalities from 0 to 40 kmh (two or three people in the study had fallen on a stopped car and been killed), around 97 per cent of the drivers involved had been driving within the speed limit. His hypothesis was that those who WERE speeding had a higher concentration level and avoided these accidents. Another factor when you dumb down to speed limits in these areas is that unskilled, and uninterested people just use the limit as their "safe" guideline, so on a wet day through your shopping strip they may be sitting on 40 km/hr while you are on 20. In the automotive and transport industries, we have the advantage that every single fatal is logged by the federal government and is available for anyone to check many details such as alleged cause, time of day, weather, make of car, alcohol level, drug level, estimated speed, road condition etc. With that information, some very interesting facts come out. In one case, what looked like a fatal caused by a car load of drunken hoons turned out to be four people, sober, misjudging a corner, sliding across the road, and sliding up an uprotected end of a roadside cable barrier which acted like a stunt ramp and rotated the car roof first into trees, killing the occupants. The investigation showed the car was not exceeding the speed limit.
Guest ozzie Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 I love driving on the autostradas in Europe, Italy is a hoot. Finding a car to suit is the hardest part. 130kph limit but 160 is the norm. Trucks stay in one lane and are limited to i think it is 85max. If you venture into the fast lane at anything under the limit be prepared to get severely abused. But commonsense rules if it starts to rain it's down to 100kph. If you start to brake hard or it goes pear shape up ahead the hazards come on. A lot of tourists driving Mount Panorama tend to forget it is a normal two way road. Fair bit of distraction on it as well. The view and all the impact marks from the race. They do race backwards on the circuit with hill climbs.
Geoff13 Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 Geoff, That just don't speed line, does not cut it. What could be a fair way to improve safety is manifestly used for revenue raising and has little bearing on road safety. We have lower limits on the open road in many places than 30 years ago. Cars are far safer but they treat us all as morons and cash cows. We spend to much time worrying about 5 different speed zones on a 3 km stretch of road-(none of which make apparent sense) than what is going on outside the car. This causes accidents and lots of them, sticking to a arbitrary speed number does not make you safe. Driving properly for the conditions does- that includes eyes on the road not staring at the speedo. Cars are driven by VFR not IFR but the rules push us to IFR. Speed has never killed anyone, it is excessive speed for the conditions. Some research has even showed artificially low speed limits do actually kill. Drivers get distracted easily, bored,tired and make fatal mistakes. They get lulled into a false sense of safety- hey I am at the limit so must be safe. OR they get frustrated and overtake dangerously and bang. If we drive to the conditions of the road,traffic,the car and our ability- we are focused on the job-driving safely. To say just follow the rules, is a very simplistic view for a complex issue. I agree with most of what you say and to use an "old line from Politics, I have been misquoted. It never ceases to amaze me. The best way to not get booked is to not speed. If you persist in speeding then take the penalty when you get caught without looking for someone else to blame. One of the problems with todays society is the way everyone needs to blame someone else for their own failings. Don't speed and you won't add to any government coffers. If you choose to speed then take the kick in the ar** when it comes. The speed limit on the circuit is to stop boy racers from trying to kill themselves and the rest of the public (a bit like the rules we fly by). You can do 300 klms down Conrod if you want just spend a few years proving you are good enough to do it first and get picked by one of the major teams to drive one of their cars. What I said was The best way not to get booked is to not speed. I also quite clearly said that if you choose to speed then take the consequences when they come, Not if they come because persistent speeders will eventually get caught. Now do not get me wrong, I agree that speed in itself in not a killer, but excessive speed is. Alcohol impairment is. Distraction is. There are many others. I have no problem with people driving above the limit. I do often when I judge it to be safe. On a motorcycle I tend to ride 5 to 10 klms/h faster than the surrounding traffic, it saves me looking over my shoulder. But when I get pinged I just cop it sweet and wear the fine. I don't jump up and down about it I just wear it. As for spending more time looking inside the vehicle than outside, that is simply a poor argument. Most people on here are pilots, when you fly VFR you fly to the attitude of the aircraft with a quick scan now and again. You should drive the same way. Most experienced drivers are more than capable of estimating their speed within a few kph. Those that can't like pilots who can't fly VFR by attitude should practice more. Now the good old argument that the speed limits were set 30 years ago and now cars are far safer. That is just like the speed kills argument. Yes cars are safer taken on their own and if they are used in the manner they are intended. Most are not. Also they are being driven on roads that for the most part were designed more than 30 years ago and are simply not capable of taking the volume of traffic we now put on them. There are hundreds more cars on the roads these days, and if you think every driver out there is totally focused on driving the car in the manner that the manufacturer recommends, then give me a ring and come with me for a day. Now the OP made a couple of comments that quite clearly contradict the point he and others are trying to get across in this thread. This is not meant to be personal OME, but it is your post. On Saturday, I found out how fast my car can go down Conrod Straight at Mount Panorama, Bathurst - 60 Kph. How do I know? Because the Highway Patrolman told me when he said that I was doing 82 in a 60 KpH zone. I wasn't even trying to go fast. I was just pulling back in after overtaking a slower car. I'm trying to calm my anger by telling myself to remember all the times I have been hooking in and not been pinged, like on Friday night when I was going 100 in an 80. But on Friday night I knew full well that I was in an 80 zone. But the signposting on Mount Panorama is quite sparse. If you know Conrod Straight, you will know that there is a slight crest about 1/3 the way down from its beginning. That's where two HWP cars were sitting. I've done my fair share of stationary radar on the Hume and Federal Highways around Goulburn, but I've never gone out with the intention of shooting sitting ducks. If the Bathurst City Council Road Safety Committee wants to improve the safety record of that roadway, then a few hundred dollars spent in posting more speed zone signs, and maybe one big one to inform people that normal road laws apply to the length of the circuit would alleviate the need for police resources to be applied there. And these resources could then be applied to the heavily trafficked highways and byways the traverse the region. The incident has done its job to remove one speed hoon from the district's roads. I'll never travel the Great Western Highway west of the Mudgee turn-off again. The towns and villages along the Mudgee road can be assured of my tourist dollars. Bad Luck, Bathurst, Orange, Molong or Wellington! OME He was driving down Conrod Straight a 60kph zone and got pinged at 82kph. (this is not just over the limit and the excuse of eyes having to be glued to the gauges simply won't wash here). He wasn't even going fast, he was just pulling in after overtaking. 82kph in a 60 zone is more than 33% above the limit. That in anyones book should be classed as hooking in. Then the clincher, the demons were just over the crest and here I risk being wrong but I am assuming that they were hidden from the top of the straight by the crest which having recently driven the cct I can vouch for. If that is the case than anyone who was coming up the straight would also have been hidden. Considering the comment "I was just pulling in after overtaking", can no-one else see the problem here and the potential there for disaster. I can. Now for the speed restriction. Now everyone here has been jumping on the bandwagon here and complaining about to much signage being a distraction. The track/public road at Bathurst to my memory is a circuit and apart from all the farms and industry there are no other entrances or exits except the main one at the bottom of Conrod. So if there is a speed sign as you enter the circuit than in keeping with not having to watch to many signs and the principle that the speed will remain the same until you pass another one, I pose a simple question. How many signs do you want or need? I only needed the one as I entered to be certain that the limit was 60kph and in the absence of any others, I was quite aware that it didn't change during my 2 laps. There was also another sign that quite clearly stated that the circuit was a public road. The second part of how fast should it be is quite simple. The speed should be set so that the average driver can drive the road under normal conditions without being a danger to themselves or other road users. Considering the fact that there are vineyards and industry up there, the width of the road and the tightness of the corners, I think that in general the 60kph limit is fairly suitable. Yes Conrod could be a bit more as could mountain straight but remember the crest already mentioned, and the fact that most posters here are asking for less sign clutter, well I am sorry guys but you cannot have your cake and eat it to. In case you haven't figured it out, road safety is very close to my heart. I may one day write a book on the stupid things that I have seen on the road, and I assure you that it is not an exaggeration to say that many heavy vehicle drivers risk their lives on a weekly basis to save those fools who just do not get it. I have done millions of kilometeres in my time on the road. I have been stopped more often than most people can count. One night 7 times in an 8 hour run. Only twice in all those years do I feel that I was hard done by and you know what? I still copped it sweet because believe it or not I reckons even the coppers should be allowed a bit of error in judgement sometime. The courts are there to protect you when that happens.
facthunter Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 It's good of you to write a lot on it but I don't agree with a lot of your assumptions. Getting booked is a lottery In many cases. IF the speed is the issue why isn't the signage more prominent? Providing revenue is part of the game. When the state government gives the coppers a rise they remand productivity. I have no objection to having speed camera's all along a freeway as long as the limits are prominently displayed preferably with illuminated signage where variable speeds are used.. It's ridiculous to say don't speed if you don't want to be fined. Some speed signs are not very visible and there is only ONE in many cases. Having 60 limit ahead is fine. You then have the actual sign confirming it a bit later. . Nev
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