The middle-class versus the rich

[Old Koreelah]

Once upon a time, going camping was getting away from it all.

These days people want to take it all with them.

[Marty_d]

Christ, 5 of us go camping in a Jayco Eagle. Pulled by a 4 cylinder 2.2 litre Santa Fe.

Having a 38 footer that needs a Landcruiser or Dodge Ram to pull it is most definitely a lifestyle choice, not a necessity. 

[onetrack]

Ha ha! My workshop neighbour, a truckie in his early 60's, bought a medium-sized Hino motorhome (built on a bus chassis) about 5-6 years ago for $40K. He did regular tours around the State in it, and complained that "it was gutless".

Then, last year, he rolls up with a full size bus motorhome (based on a Scania bus chassis). I said to him, "So, you sold the Hino?" He replies, "Oh, no, we kept that! - that's for short trips now!"

Now he's complaining about the amount of fuel the Scania drinks!! LOL

 

I don't know what he paid for the Scania, but it must have been around $100K. What gets me is, when you go touring with a 'van or motorhome, you're forking out big $$$'s in fuel costs - then you get slugged $30 or $40 a night to stay in a caravan park (usually with some pretty ordinary facilities!).

Then you have the insurance, maintenance and repairs of the darn things! And if someone runs into you (or you roll it) - there goes your home! - you're now homeless!

 

I have no interest in owning a 'van or motorhome - I've owned plenty of 'vans for work purposes (and lived in them plenty) to know full well the constant repairs and maintenance required on them.

One time, insurance and licencing were cheap - now it costs a fortune! Then you have to have somewhere to store the darned things! - out of the weather, hopefully! - or they deteriorate even faster than they normally do!

My truckie neighbour has run out of room around his house block to store his cars and motorhomes, so they get stored around and outside his (rented) workshop!

 

We prefer to fly and stay in hotels and motels, and hire a vehicle as required. It works out cheaper than owning any of this stuff, when you take into account the amount of money tied up in it.

 

Edited June 7, 2023 by onetrack

[spacesailor]

I disagree. 

The cost of a SMALL camper or motor home outways the cost of $ 300 to $ 500 a night.

six weeks travelling around Australia  will soon show the differences between hiring a room, eating out , then The tours . .

I agree,  a caravan is Not a " motor vehicle '' & should nor have to pay registration,  as no one drives a caravan . EUROPE seems to have the tow vehicle's numberplate on the trailer. 

And there's lots of ' FREE 'camps , Australia wide.

spacesailor

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

23 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

The cost of a SMALL camper or motor home outways the cost of $ 300 to $ 500 a night.

Comparing the cost of a small campervan to staying at the Hyatt is really not valid 😉

 

 

[nomadpete]

7 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

Comparing the cost of a small campervan to staying at the Hyatt is really not valid 😉

 

 

However, it is hard to find a country motel for less than $200 a night.

We just drove 2000k up the RHS of Aus, and it seems that the majority of the many caravans we passed do represent a substantial 'investment'. Big rigs towed by big 4wd tugs sucking big fuel - in the $150k to $250k bracket (SWMBO loves to google the prices). Lots of ageing drivers too (frightening). Puzzling thing is, although they have full chefs kitchens, most grab a couple of folding chairs and pull out a gas BBQ to cook dinner outside!

I'm with Spacey for simple affordable travel. It is possible to do.

[nomadpete]

And I suspect that the last of our 'financially upper middle class' people are those ageing couples who can afford to blow their substantial superannuation on a expensive caravan/truck combination that costs as much as a starter home.

Edited June 7, 2023 by nomadpete

[Jerry_Atrick]

1 minute ago, nomadpete said:

However, it is hard to find a country motel for less than $200 a night.

Really! Wow.. Maybe we are blessed in the UK where on Monday night I stayed at motel type accommodation (they don't have real morels here) for £50 (about $90 at the moment). And that was in Chiswick, which is not too shabby...

 

I just went on booking.com to look at motels in Tocumwal (and old mainstay of mine in my gliding days), and wow.. FridaySat night - around £130 - or $200.. that is not too bad, as I was paying arond $50/night way back in the 90s when I couldn't get Sportavia accomodation (Sportavia are gone)..

 

Actually, that £130 is with a motel I know very well.  and is perfectly OK, but the rooms don't look like they have changed since I stayed there.. and even way back then, they were spartan.

 

The next bext is £191 for the 2 nights.. yeah.. I have to prepare for a few changes on my return, I guess..

 

[nomadpete]

Oops my bad. Correction.... edit.....

Not Tocumwal. I got confused, we passed Tocumwal but stopped at Tooraweena - the nights start to blur on a rush trip.... Tooraweena is well off the main drag. We walked past the Tooraweena hotel/motel. Glad we stayed in a slightly less tired cabin at the caravan park. It wwas by far the cheapest night on the drive at only $80.

Edited June 7, 2023 by nomadpete
Grey matter error

[Old Koreelah]

9 hours ago, onetrack said:

Now he's complaining about the amount of fuel the Scania drinks!! LOL.

Fuel prices will only rise, so fuel burn should be a major factor in choosing a vehicle.

I drive a community bus, a Mercedes Sprinter (similar to an Ambulance).

Carrying seven people and a heavy chair lifter, it averages 9.4 litres per 100km on trips to Tamworth Hydrotherapy Pool. That’s more than my small 4WD burns when towing my small, streamlined camper trailer!

 

If I’d had my time over, I’d have bought one to convert into a camper.

[facthunter]

Easier to level the trailer than the tow vehicle. Some of these homes on wheels are utterly ridiculous and they all want drive through sites. End up with about 22 litres/100 Kms.. heat their water from the sites generators and I've seen them overloaD THE SYSTEM WHEN A GROUP ARRIVES.   Nev

[spacesailor]

Tooraweenah $ 80 for a cabin , but save $ 55 , for a powered site. ( $ 25 ).

My little camper-van had the electric on , just to keep these Old bones warm .

BIG SHOCK ! .

In the morning everything was frosted over.  I couldn't use my frozen chair or doormat .

I had to put them in the sunshine to thaw out. Before driving to the airport .

spacesailor

 

 

[old man emu]

My biggest gripe with grey nomads is their interference with the country's economy. Drawing a long bow?? Nup. I use the Newell Highway between Gil and Dubbo. The Newell is the alternative to the Hume/Pacific between Melbourne and Brisbane. The highway is also used for local heavy haulage of grain and supplies to towns along its route. The truck that use it are limited by law to 100 kph, but once they get to that speed, they can keep it up. The problem they face is the caravanners rolling along at 90 kph. Although overtaking lanes are more common now, the trucks don't have many opportunities to overtake these slow vehicles. When you are travelling hundreds of kilometres in a day's work, these slow vehicles reduce the number that can be covered. The drivers ultimately are being paid by you and me at the supermarket or Bunnings checkouts, so slow-coaches cost us money. 

 

Another bugbear is travelling too close. Regulation 127 of the Australian Road Rules says: 

 Keeping a minimum distance between long vehicles

(1) The driver of a long vehicle must drive at least the required minimum distance behind another long vehicle travelling in front of the driver. Required minimum distance" means--for a long vehicle other than a road train that is behind a long vehicle--60 metres

[Old Koreelah]

I spot on, OME!
I do my best to let trucks past, because they usually have more pressing deadlines than me.

I use CC to sit on actual speed limit (according to GPS) but still get idiots tailgating; they’re a menace on the roads, so I pull over to let them by if I can safely.

[spacesailor]

The Big reason for slow caravan's is ( as Aviators know to well ) Pushing the air plus.the ' tail ' drag., Increases the fuel consumption , far too much for

" greynomad " pensioners. 

They could also be tired..

Most plan their trip for a couple of hours driving. 

spacesailor

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by spacesailor
AI changing words

[Jerry_Atrick]

3 hours ago, old man emu said:

My biggest gripe with grey nomads is their interference with the country's economy.

Yes, but all that extra tax they pay by consuming more fuel adds to the economy... I guess. Question is, how much % more does it add to the price v how much % more does it add to the economy through taxes.. and then even the add to the price is an increase to the economy in taxes, as that additional cost will be reflected in the retail price, which will have 10% GST added.. the widget costs, say $1.00 witout the grey nomads or $1.10 with the grey nomads on the road. In the former, the govermnet will take 10 cents, the the latter, it will take 11 cents. So, they are ensuring our government doesn't go broke...

Well done Grey Nomads! I might submit a PhD thesis in advanced economics that debunks the myth an ageing population is a net drain on the economy.

😉

[old man emu]

You wouldn't support grey nomads if you'd just transshipped your HVG through Dover and were heading to the Slyfield Industrial Estate at Jacobs Well via the M25 and were stuck behind Darby and Joan starting out on their caravan tour of the Cotswolds.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Believe me, if that were the extent of the traffic problems on the M25 thanks to your intevention with all the opther crap to contend with, then you would be elected as PM

 

[Edit] I have to deal with them on the A303 to the South West, but it is only a few months a year.. so I take an alternate route.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Jerry_Atrick

[onetrack]

I've spoken with caravan tourists who were complaining about chewing up $300 worth of fuel a day to get where they're going - with their $120K Landcruisers or Nissan Patrols and $120K monster, off-road vans with "all the fruit". The problem is, Australia is a place with hundreds of kms between destinations that are often only s***holes in the middle of nowhere - and the fuel there is $3.00 a litre.

 

So, I'm reckon it's better to fly commercially to the nearest airport, get the best accommodation in the nicest hotel/motel/apartment you can get for the money (keeping in mind, you can now carefully examine and select your choice of accommodation, thanks to a multitude of reviews and photos), then hire a set of wheels (many choices again, according to your wants, needs or desires), and get a decent bed, room to stretch out, facilities such as an ensuite (not a grubby, run-down caravan park communal shower block) - and enjoy your holiday with no long-distance travel traffic stress.

 

We find that sites like Stayz offer a good range of places to stay in for reasonable cost. Of course, if you want to stay in a beachfront apartment in a tourist trap place like the Gold Coast, you pay a fortune.

We prefer the less-populated places where the touristy stuff is minimal. SWMBO loves the water so we mostly select holiday destinations on the coast.

[facthunter]

Who wants to FLY in the circumstances of current air transport where the inflight entertainment can be "live" punch ups and who know's what is going on up the front?   IF you have to go over water you don't have a lot of choice. You are right in so much as Australia is  a lot of "nothing" but boring dry landscape and crook Roadhouses.  Nev

[onetrack]

Yes, commercial flights have really descended to the bottom of the barrel today, flying is no longer the enjoyable experience it was. I blame American-style corporate greed and scheming that is designed to treat pax merely as cattle to be milked. You're lucky to get a free drink of water or a cup of tea of coffee on flights today, it's all about screwing every last cent out of the pax.

The last Virgin flight I was on, the menu looked like a cheap cafe, but you had to pay for everything at outlandish prices.

The last flight I can recall enjoying was on Qatar, Doha to Perth in a B777 in business class in 2013. There were 34 seats in BC, but only 9 people in those seats, and the stewards and stewardesses cooked the food you wanted, after you ordered it. Plus the seats were lie-flat beds, and included an inbuilt massager!

[Old Koreelah]

14 hours ago, spacesailor said:

The Big reason for slow caravan's is ( as Aviators know to well ) Pushing the air plus.the ' tail ' drag., Increases the fuel consumption , …

 

I’ve always said that caravans should be banned from the roads, except between midnight and dawn.

[spacesailor]

YOU WANT OLD PEOPLE NIGHT DRIVING ! .

HOW about all , B DOUBLE-TRUCKS , Put to those hours .

Same as Brokenhill nsw

AND the same laws for ALL Australian states & territories. 

Not : Annual ' safely check ' in some states .

: Age discrimination  in some state's,  ( not a full list ).

spacesailor

[facthunter]

The STATE you are in can make a lot of difference to your quality of life.  Nev

[old man emu]

Yesterday I had to travel south on the Hume Hwy for about 40 kms. It was mid-morning on the Friday before a long weekend. The traffic was heavy with a mix of Heavies, lorries and passenger vehicles. The highway has two lanes and a speed limit of 110 kph.

 

It didn't take more than kilometre or two to end up on the tail of a slow moving lane of traffic. Luckily the  outer lane was moving a bit faster and I was able to pass those trucks and lorries and passenger vehicles using the other lane. What did I find when I finally got to the front of the slow moving traffic? You guessed it. A grey nomad pottering along at 90 Kph - 20 Kph below the signposted speed limit on a modern, divided motorway. I wondered why the old bastard couldn't have used his GPS and found the alternate, scenic route where it would have been OK to travel at 90 kph, see more interesting sights and let the poor truckies get home to Victoria to spend the long weekend with their families.

 

It would have been OK if the nomads were doing 100 Kph because that's what the truckies were trying to stick to. I reckon there is a strong need for a conditional licence to allow the towing of caravans, but unfortunately the practical test would have to be done in areas where the speed limit was 100 so they applicant could show their ability to handle a caravan at highway speed.