Poor David Cameron, not getting good press at the moment.

[Litespeed]

Unless you are been paid a considerable sum to reprocess others waste and then store it- then Nuclear is uneconomic.

 

You have to keep in mind that Nuclear runs on the no risk, all profit model for private companies. The government has to guarantee the project for capital and indemnify the owners for any insurance risk. Then as has proven overseas- when time comes to close the plant and decommission- the government foots the bill.

 

So you have a technology that can only be used if massive and constant subsidies are provided for beyond the life of its power generation.

 

Add in the 5-10 year build time, the almost zero trained nuclear workers and scientist we have- so all are imported or trained at

 

universitiy courses we don't have. Equals more expense.

 

You still need a large transmission network and a huge need for cooling water.

 

And this all assumes we could build one without a double or tripling of cost and time.

 

France, Germany, USA, Russia and Japan have all big Nuclear programs and have heavily subsidised them for decades.

 

If we looked at the real cost to do Nuclear to cover say 20% of our power needs - you are talking well over 100 billion just to build at todays money. The you have to run it, subsidise it and regulate it.

 

It would be cheaper to just give everyone free solar cells and a battery packs for the home.And everyone benefits except big power/nuclear. And have no need for expensive pole and wire goldplating.

 

Unless we can become the nuclear waste dump of the world and get paid huge amounts for it- it will never happen on environmental and economic grounds. And we could never hope to reuse more than a small amount of the worlds nuclear waste- there is heaps out there.

 

For those that say it is safe and works- keep in mind we can't even mine the stuff and not make a huge mess. Governments have proven not to hold the miners truly responsible for there mess, nor power stations. Why would they do better if both are combined?

 

A nuclear industry here in Australia is just a pipe dream- stop smoking that pipe.

 

 

[dutchroll]

France, Germany, USA, Russia and Japan have all big Nuclear programs and have heavily subsidised them for decades.

If we looked at the real cost to do Nuclear to cover say 20% of our power needs - you are talking well over 100 billion just to build at todays money. The you have to run it, subsidise it and regulate it.

In the minds of Abbott's most loyal fans, nuclear fission energy is cheap, requires no intervention by Government, and will be totally funded by free market investment.

 

Please stop spoiling it for them, Litespeed.

 

 

[M61A1]

Giving everyone solar panels and batteries might make the greens feel good, but all they are doing while reducing our carbon output is increasing someone else's. The environmental cost of producing renewables, at this stage is more than the benefits gained. Somewhere, someone is burning coal and processing chemicals so that you can claim to be environmentally friendly.

 

 

[octave]

The environmental cost of producing renewables, at this stage is more than the benefits gained.

how so?

 

.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

A more important issue...........fresh water. Compromise that..............we're done for. Then this "fracking......coal seam burnings" and the like.......scary stuff, our under ground water aquafiers once compromised,are gone.......for good.I'm worried..........

You're right, Russ. There are mobs of problems threatening humanity, but water shortages are sneaking up on us fast.

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11466783

 

 

[Litespeed]

Giving everyone solar panels and batteries might make the greens feel good, but all they are doing while reducing our carbon output is increasing someone else's. The environmental cost of producing renewables, at this stage is more than the benefits gained. Somewhere, someone is burning coal and processing chemicals so that you can claim to be environmentally friendly.

where did you get that from- the Liberal Party or maybe the Australian?

 

Average cells produced today "Energy pay back time" EPBT is 2.4 years approx. After that for the next 17.6 years the cell is making free power. This is expected to reduce to less than 6 months with new types of cells been developed.

 

A paper describing the study appears in the latest issue of the journal Energy & Environmental Science.

 

Source: Northwestern University

 

Science is Science and has no bearing on what you may think is fact.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

John Howard famously claimed that renewables would never provide base load power (forgetting that they always do in Tasmania and NZ). His people also ridiculed solar energy by claiming we'd have to cover enormous amounts of land with panels to power our cities.

 

Meanwhile Prof Green at Uni NSW had long since developed a solar roof panel. Why aren't all new roofs covered in them?

 

 

[Litespeed]

Because he refused to provide small seed funding to build them here in Australia. So the best young mind went to china and became a billionaire.

 

And big power, big coal and big business steer the puppets where they want- ie. to flog dead horses and shower cash over the rotting corpse.

 

But all new homes should be renewable powered. Solar cells, batteries and wifi mean we have no need for anything more than small community grids. New estates should not need connection to the wider grid. The savings would be huge and help pay most if not all the expense of each houses system. And no bills to pay except if you borrow too much from your neighbors.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Howard was able to appeal to the anti-intelletuals with fear of change and elitism.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Blimey Phil. . . . .Me and my mate George were just having a giggle at what's happened to your thread about me . . . HAHAHAHAHAHA . . . .

 

[ATTACH]47692._xfImport[/ATTACH]

 

[Litespeed]

Phil,

 

That's because once again the English failed to do your duty, and keep him under lock and key in the Tower of London. We did the whole scholarship to box at Oxford thing to get him to you, let him punch anything that moves and you still sent the convict back to us.

 

Cameron and co have just realised they dodged a bullet by not having Sir Pository in England. He could have had their jobs.

 

 

[frank marriott]

Bugger this lot,. . . .

Too serious. . . . .Way to skientifik for me. . . . . . Everone has an equal and opposite argument. . . .

 

Stale Meat comes to mind. . . .

 

What a twart was I for starting a thread about bloody British politix. . . . .however humorously intended. . ..

 

I'm off to Aviation Laughter to lighten the mood somewhat. . . . . .

Phil - politics & religion nuf said.

 

 

[Kiwi303]

For some minds, Politics IS their religion. So it's double the trouble.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

If you lack intellectual curiosity, after a while you bore everyone.

 

 

[Marty_d]

John Howard famously claimed that renewables would never provide base load power (forgetting that they always do in Tasmania and NZ). His people also ridiculed solar energy by claiming we'd have to cover enormous amounts of land with panels to power our cities.Meanwhile Prof Green at Uni NSW had long since developed a solar roof panel. Why aren't all new roofs covers in them?

Won't be long before someone develops a paint-based PV system which can be bonded to steel. Coupled with efficient "power wall" type battery backup and your entire roof collecting electricity, it won't be cost effective for new houses to even connect to the grid.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

For some minds, Politics IS their religion. So it's double the trouble.

Didn't you once say “The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men.”

 

 

[Kiwi303]

Not me, I'm too young by a couple hundred years for that quote.

 

That was either the likes of Voltaire, or one of the US Founding Fathers.

 

 

[Kiwi303]

Won't be long before someone develops a paint-based PV system which can be bonded to steel. Coupled with efficient "power wall" type battery backup and your entire roof collecting electricity, it won't be cost effective for new houses to even connect to the grid.

There are already flexible solar panels which can be glued to flat roofs like US tar shingles, just spray on adhesive and roll out the panel mat. Not quite as efficient as the rigid flat panel type, but give it time. Not much use on corrugated iron or concrete tile tho unless you fill it flat somehow.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

have a laugh at the size of the olympic dam (uranium mining) disaster

 

4 years just to get to the uranium

 

 

[Marty_d]

There are already flexible solar panels which can be glued to flat roofs like US tar shingles, just spray on adhesive and roll out the panel mat. Not quite as efficient as the rigid flat panel type, but give it time. Not much use on corrugated iron or concrete tile tho unless you fill it flat somehow.

Something like Colorbond Trimdek, but with lower ridges so you don't shade the flat bits too much in low sun. Designing a new cladding profile would be the simplest part of the process. They still use hand-crimped zinc panels sometimes in the UK, they have nice large flat areas.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Phil,

 

That's because once again the English failed to do your duty, and keep him under lock and key in the Tower of London. We did the whole scholarship to box at Oxford thing to get him to you, let him punch anything that moves and you still sent the convict back to us.

 

Cameron and co have just realised they dodged a bullet by not having Sir Pository in England. He could have had their jobs.

 

Allo Lighty,. . . . .

 

I make regular political comments on numerous UK blog sites,. . . .( it's glorious at the moment watching the UK Labour party ripping each others' throats out in the rush to become the new messiah of the left. . . ) but I don't know much about AussiePolitik . . . . It might be funny if I knew who you were writing about. . . . .

 

Phil

 

 

[coljones]

Giving everyone solar panels and batteries might make the greens feel good, but all they are doing while reducing our carbon output is increasing someone else's. The environmental cost of producing renewables, at this stage is more than the benefits gained. Somewhere, someone is burning coal and processing chemicals so that you can claim to be environmentally friendly.

Crap!!

 

 

[Phil Perry]

For some minds, Politics IS their religion. So it's double the trouble.

Yes mate,. . . I find it all most confuddling,. . . . there used to be Left,. . .Right,. . .and Centre. . .in the general political spectrum,, bot no longer,. . .( In the UK anyway ) we have the Looney Right, . . .very rich traditionalists, then we have the more moderate Right, some Conservatives, . . . then we have the Left, ie Greens and SNP, then we have the Looney Left,. . .communists / Marxists, generally either out of work and on bennies, or heavily unionised but easily led by promises of a Wondeful life by charismatic political demagogues, (Good life Later,. . .just vote for us ) , . . there appears to be no centre ( moderate) people remaining. There is also the Looney Rich leftists, ie, those who populate and completely control the output of the BBC, the leftie politicized Civil service, 65% of the House of Lords and most of the Quangos,. . . and UKIP, with one MP, who want to be the centre party, but didn't get anywhere near emough votes in the G.E to do any good.

 

So,. . .it's quite a mixed bag of ratbags we have here,. . . . and my mate Cyril, ( Lanc Nav / Gunner - ww2) says he wouldn;t have bothered getting up in the morning had he any inkling of what England would morph into. . . . .

 

Highly confuddling place in which to abide. . . .

 

 

[Phil Perry]

* * * * * * *BREAKING NEWS IN UK * * * * * * *

 

The national PaddyPower betting shop chain are actually paying out bets early,. . .on Jeremy Corbyn to win the Labour Party leadership election, which doesn't actually happen til September. ! ! ! !

 

Never heard of a bookie doing anything like THAT before. . .

 

For those of you who possibly do not know,. . .Corbyn was added to the leadership election ticket as a bit of a joke, as there were otherwise only three contenders,. . .all useless, (although Liz Kendall is DD Gorgeous, but at 100/1, not a sensible bet, too intelligent. . . )

 

So the rabid marxist, friend of Hamas and the IRA leadership, Jew hater and all round UTTERLY LOONEY Mr. COrbyn, looks like he's going to be the new leader,. . .some of my friends hav jooned the LAbour party ( for three quid ) so that they could vote for him, since that will certainly keep Labour away from any powere for at least one generation.

 

Things are looking up,. . . .apart from the elephant in the room,. . .ie, the current Government will have NO official sensible opposition to any daft thing they want to do. . . .which is. . .swings and roundabouts,. . . .possibly just as bad.

 

 

[M61A1]

Crap!!

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/11/21/renewable_energy_simply_wont_work_google_renewables_engineers/

 

Have proper read...I'd be happy if they were wrong.