Poor David Cameron, not getting good press at the moment.

[Teckair]

Yep, those 99.9% of respected scientists

Where did you get that figure from? Maybe the same place a lot of stuff has come from on this thread?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

"It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled." ~ Mark Twain

 

 

[Marty_d]

Where did you get that figure from? Maybe the same place a lot of stuff has come from on this thread?

Am I a percent out Teckair? Doesn't change the facts.

 

 

[Kiwi303]

Yep, those 99.9% of scientists funded by green lobby groups, solar energy manufacturers and wind turbine builders who reckon the climate is changing because of human activity have absolutely no idea. Let's trust independent peer reviewed respected scientists who believe the climate will do what the climate will do and human anthropocentric climate change is just fuzz lost in the noise.

Fixed.

 

The sunspot cycle has FAR more impact on the heating and cooling of the earth than any coal plants we could build. One major eruption and the earth puts out as much gasses of various kinds as the worlds coal plants combined in a year.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Kiwi, if you truly believe what you changed my quote to be, it'd be laughable if it wasn't so sad. Yes, I can just picture those big nasty renewable energy companies are flooding all the world's scientists with buckets of money that they got... er... somewhere, just to drive those poor little coal fired power stations (who aren't producing any pollution and all and look MUCH nicer than those horrible wind turbines) out of business.

 

 

[dutchroll]

One major eruption and the earth puts out as much gasses of various kinds as the worlds coal plants combined in a year.

A volcanic eruption? That's absolute bollocks. Complete, utter bollocks and totally contradicted by all scientific literature, measurements, and studies of volcanos. When Mt Pinatubo erupted in 1991 scientists raced to study and measure the biggest eruption on Earth in modern history, and for the first time ever, they actually had the tools and technology to do it.

 

It released 50 million tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere. What do you reckon the total anthropogenic CO2 emissions measured and calculated in 2010 were? Any guesses?

 

34 billion tonnes. Yes, you'd need approximately 700 eruptions of the size of Mt Pinatubo (the biggest ever observed in the modern human age) to put out the same amount. Two Mt Pinatubo sized eruptions per day......every day......for a year!

 

This is typical of the misinformation spread by the very commentators and columnists we are talking of here. Volcanos emit a tiny fraction of the greenhouse gases that human habitation and industrialisation does.

 

You can get this information from the premier and most highly respected volcanic research institute in the world - the US Geological Survey. Or you can get it from Alan Jones, the high school english teacher, who makes it up as he goes. Or just as valid as sourcing it from Jones, you can get it from Ian Plimer, a politically inspired mining geologist who trashed his own scientific career by being so flagrantly dishonest about demonstrable and provable facts.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

we, as a species, burn 80-90M barrels of oil every day of the year. I can't see how a tiny little volcano could possibly compete

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

The dust and ash that big volcanic eruptions toss into the upper atmosphere have in the past suddenly cooled global climate for a year or two. Trouble is we can't rely on volcanoes to save us from the mess we're making.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

The dust and ash that big volcanic eruptions toss into the upper atmosphere have in the past suddenly cooled global climate for a year or two. Trouble is we can't rely on volcanoes to save us from the mess we're making.

when did that happen? like millions of years ago?

 

 

[coljones]

Fixed.

 

The sunspot cycle has FAR more impact on the heating and cooling of the earth than any coal plants we could build. One major eruption and the earth puts out as much gasses of various kinds as the worlds coal plants combined in a year.

Have you considered what types of gasses and particulates are thrown up in an eruption and whether the gases and particulates are long or short acting and whether they contribute, in the long term, to the sum of "greenhouse" like emissions in the atmosphere? Or do volcanic emissions, in the short term, contribute to global cooling by acting as umbrella?

 

 

[dutchroll]

The eruption Kiwi303 was referring to was a solar flare.

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Quote: "One major eruption and the earth puts out as much gasses of various kinds as the worlds coal plants combined in a year."

 

How can you be referring to a solar flare and state that it causes the Earth to put out gases of various kinds?

 

 

[coljones]

The eruption Kiwi303 was referring to was a solar flare.

[ATTACH=full]37315[/ATTACH]

While it is energy up there the major impact down here is radio wave emissions that bugger up comms.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

[Old Koreelah]

when did that happen? like millions of years ago?

Last week, today...

 

The big events where volcanic eruptions have cooled the climate have been 1783, 1815, 1883,

 

1982, 1991, 2006, but it is ongoing.

 

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-do-volcanoes-affect-w/

 

http://www.carbonbrief.org/blog/2015/04/how-do-volcanic-eruptions-influence-the-climate/

 

Cooling by Sulphur dioxide from volcanoes is believed to far outweigh the warming effect of their CO2. (Humans produce about 10,00 times as much CO2 as volcanoes). Volcanoes may be saving us from the real effects of our CO2 emissions.

 

http://news.sciencemag.org/climate/2014/11/thanks-volcanoes-earth-cooler-expected-due-recent-eruptions

 

http://www.ibtimes.com/global-warming-hiatus-caused-volcanoes-cooling-effect-study-says-eruptions-slow-global-temperature

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2906874/Volcanoes-cooling-Earth-Aerosols-small-eruptions-reduced-global-temperatures-tropical-rainfall.html

 

 

[dutchroll]

The only issue is that cooling due to the reflectivity of aerosols emitted from volcanic eruptions is always temporary, as the aerosols precipitate out of the atmosphere eventually.

 

The CO2 from our massive industrialisation base always wins out in the end!

 

Regrettably however, there are certain sides of politics for whom the acceptance of solid scientific evidence and knowledge is simply not going to happen.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

^ Upset he can't pay more tax.

 

 

[dutchroll]

I don't like paying tax any more than anyone else.

 

However relating the prospect of additional tax to the plausibility of scientific observations and theories is a bizarre leap of logic. The science is the science. How you wish to deal with the consequences (if you wish to deal with them at all or just prefer to pretend they don't exist) and what measures you feel are reasonable to do that, is entirely up to you.

 

The scientists can only tell you what is happening, the reason it is happening based on the best available evidence, and what you'd need to do to have a chance of fixing it. Then the ball is in your court.

 

 

[facthunter]

Don't address the large issue it really is Gnu. It's gonna cost more!!!! so don't do anything, or is god looking after it and the millions of tonnes of CO2 just aren't happening or have no effect. or are we in the last days? If not addressed soon, it will REALLY cost. No one questions the Co2 increase in the atmosphere and absorbed in the sea water where it acidifies it and threatens sea life. It's reliably measured. There's a lot of vested interests trying to convince you it's not happening and they have a lot of money and influence, and it works. Nev

 

 

[Marty_d]

Yes, how dare they try to make us pay more tax/higher power price/whatever to fix this problem, when we can just leave it for future generations. Of course, by then it'll be too late, but hey at least we didn't have to put our hand in our pocket.

 

 

[facthunter]

Might be difficult explaining why we let it happen. Generational theft on a grand scale. Not my problem I'll be dead then. I've heard that so many times. We only have one planet to live on. Nev

 

 

[Teckair]

Am I a percent out Teckair? Doesn't change the facts.

Like you I have no way of knowing you could be 50% out for all I know.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...There's a lot of vested interests trying to convince you it's not happening and they have a lot of money and influence, and it works. Nev

...and they will be nowhere to be seen when the international community demands Australia do its share to accomodate the millions of environmental refugees swamping our borders.

[cscotthendry]

...and they will be nowhere to be seen when the international community demands Australia do its share to accomodate the millions of environmental refugees swamping our borders.

Those vested interests will be lobbying furiously to push those refugees back into the sea ... unless they can be co-opted for cheap labour.

 

 

[coljones]

^ Upset he can't pay more tax.

I got my tax back to compensate me for the crap going up into the air. If the pollution is reduced the tax is reduced, my quality of life is improved and so I get less compensation. Simple - except for those in areas where they do and don't have coal fired power stations. Those that live near a power plant put up with a lot of pollution and not much compensation but those a long way from power stations don't get the pollution but do get the compensation. I used to live in central Newcastle and the atmospheric filth and particulates were incredible. Much better now that BHP has gone. A grant to clean up will encourage cheating, a tax if they don't really focuses their minds on the bottom line. A price on carbon is a price on pollution.

 

 

[Kiwi303]

Climate Changes... it is what the climate does... The Romans grew grapes in the shadow of Hadrians wall and there used to be horse and sleighs trotting down the Thames through London. Dinosaurs strolled through cyacad forests with CO2 levels much higher than anything seen today.

 

Human climate change is negligible. The sun drives far more change than we ever could.

 

Focus on pollution, PCBs, plastic bags in the oceans, old organophosphate sheep dip sites, leeching landfills etc.

 

Let the climate sort itself out and just clean the crap up.

 

And a page or so back, Yes I was talking about gelogical volcanoes eruptioning rather than solar flares. It's not just CO2 out there, it's Sulphur dioxide and particulate ash and all the rest.

 

CO2 only is a cop out, trees EAT it, it's not like it sits around for decade after decade like CFCs.